If we got offered 3rd now?
- Thread starter holmesy
- Start date
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
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I still don't get this attitude.
When the thread was made we had an outside chance at the title.
Our pre-season goal was a CL place.
We will achieve that if we finish 4th.
At the time I stated clearly why I didn't believe we will finish lower than 4th...Chelsea losing to WBA yesterday pretty much confirmed my reasoning was correct.
Still believe we will finish 4th, at least.
Whoever stated that if we opted to not excepting third at that time that we were automatically outof the Cup as well, I certainly never read it like that.
LOL at everyone who is using two poor results to justify being cowardly in a hypothetical situation that could, very easily (watch the FECKING Citeh game again :bang
have turned out differently :roll:
When the thread was made we had an outside chance at the title.
Our pre-season goal was a CL place.
We will achieve that if we finish 4th.
At the time I stated clearly why I didn't believe we will finish lower than 4th...Chelsea losing to WBA yesterday pretty much confirmed my reasoning was correct.
Still believe we will finish 4th, at least.
Whoever stated that if we opted to not excepting third at that time that we were automatically outof the Cup as well, I certainly never read it like that.
LOL at everyone who is using two poor results to justify being cowardly in a hypothetical situation that could, very easily (watch the FECKING Citeh game again :bang
have turned out differently :roll:
AngerManagement
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2004
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The point is we have no realistic chance of winning the league or even finishing higher than 3rd
We do however have a very realistic chance of being caught by Arsenal and to a slightly lesser extent Chelsea.
As a result we are much more likely to lose our position in third than we are to improve it, so if it were not just a hypothetical question and you could actually take a deal to end the season now and have third place every spurs fan in the world would do it.
The whole point of a hypothetical question is to answer it as if it were real, what would you do if it were actually possible, not to give a different answer because of the fact its only hypothetical anyway.
Very easily have finished differently maybe, but realistically we were always more likely to finish lower than third than we were to improve upon it so it made sense to take it.
We do however have a very realistic chance of being caught by Arsenal and to a slightly lesser extent Chelsea.
As a result we are much more likely to lose our position in third than we are to improve it, so if it were not just a hypothetical question and you could actually take a deal to end the season now and have third place every spurs fan in the world would do it.
The whole point of a hypothetical question is to answer it as if it were real, what would you do if it were actually possible, not to give a different answer because of the fact its only hypothetical anyway.
Very easily have finished differently maybe, but realistically we were always more likely to finish lower than third than we were to improve upon it so it made sense to take it.
AngerManagement
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2004
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I'm not overly worried about the two bad results, more angry with the fact Arsenal won and look like going on a run.
What is important now is how we do up at Everton, a tricky away game that we simply have to win or we really will be in trouble and looking over our shoulders at Chelsea let alone Arsenal by the time we head to the Bridge
What is important now is how we do up at Everton, a tricky away game that we simply have to win or we really will be in trouble and looking over our shoulders at Chelsea let alone Arsenal by the time we head to the Bridge
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
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The point is that that is NOW.
When the thread was made, we had a realistic, if outside chance of doing that, adn no-one (NO-ONE :bang
knew, for instance that JD was jsut going to miss an injury time winner at Citeh, who should have been reduced to nine players, but instead they would get a last minute penalty. NO-ONE KNEW THAT. And you are using the events from then, basically, to somehow prove that you have foreknowledge of that when the question was posed AND YOU DIDN'T. And that is a fact, if JD had scored, subsequent timelines would have been massively altered and therefore my argument is totally 100% correct - we had an outisde chance at the title when the question was posed and using what you know NOW to pretend some kind of foreknowledge to justify what to me (sorry, I normally like you) to be a gutless attitude is, to me, utterly pathetic.And just so you understand me FULLY - YES I know we have little realistic chance atthe title NOW, and I know we could even finish 4th NOW (though I do not believe we will finish lower than 4th), but I am not talking about making that decision NOW based on what we know NOW. We are talking about what we knew when the question was posed, are we!
clarryboy
Member
- Feb 4, 2004
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After last Sunday's loss to Arsenal, I took a look at the fixture list and felt we'd be more likely to lose at Sunderland than at Everton. I was, and still am, quietly confident of winning at Goodison.
But looking at how they've done since we beat them two months ago, they've been unbeaten in six games and defeated both Man City & Chelsea at home. Three points next week would be massive.
AngerManagement
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2004
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Initially, I'm sure if I scrolled back I could find that I myself said no because there was no purpose as it seemed we were too far clear of fourth to make it worth our while settling for third.
Even then though there was no realistic chance of winning the league.
I'm not using events to suggest I had pre-knowledge, I am using my knowledge of English football that has proved time and time again teams don't just make the jump from being also runs to League champions in such a short period of time without massive massive investment.
Even Man City have taken a year or two of continuous excessive spending to get in a position where they can realistically win the league.
I didn't know specific details about individual events that would happen in a game, but I did know that over the course of a season these things will occur and a squad like ours is not YET ready to show the mental discipline to win the type of games you need to win week in week out in the business end of the season.
I knew that it is these intangible factors that we are still lacking, experience, belief, mental toughness etc etc the things that separate a good team from a great team and the reason Sir Alex's Man Utd have won so much, because in games like today when it matters against tough opponents they win well even when being second best.
You yourself are using a Man City game as evidence for how things could have been different and to disprove the premise of the thread when I believe the thread was created AFTER the Man City game, in fact I think most said that short passage of play between Defoe's miss and Super Mario's penalty was a season defining moment and when the title race for us was over.
After the Arsenal match I said those who wouldn't accept 3rd previously would/should change that view now, you disagreed and argued we could still win the league or at least had more chance of that than we did dropping out of the top four.
With yet another loss and the gap behind us decreasing and that above us increasing, plus the fact that 3rd and 4th hold major differences in terms of the automatic qualification I would just like to ask you as of NOW would you accept third if offered? or do you still believe we have more chance of winning the league than we do losing third or even fourth spot?
Even then though there was no realistic chance of winning the league.
I'm not using events to suggest I had pre-knowledge, I am using my knowledge of English football that has proved time and time again teams don't just make the jump from being also runs to League champions in such a short period of time without massive massive investment.
Even Man City have taken a year or two of continuous excessive spending to get in a position where they can realistically win the league.
I didn't know specific details about individual events that would happen in a game, but I did know that over the course of a season these things will occur and a squad like ours is not YET ready to show the mental discipline to win the type of games you need to win week in week out in the business end of the season.
I knew that it is these intangible factors that we are still lacking, experience, belief, mental toughness etc etc the things that separate a good team from a great team and the reason Sir Alex's Man Utd have won so much, because in games like today when it matters against tough opponents they win well even when being second best.
You yourself are using a Man City game as evidence for how things could have been different and to disprove the premise of the thread when I believe the thread was created AFTER the Man City game, in fact I think most said that short passage of play between Defoe's miss and Super Mario's penalty was a season defining moment and when the title race for us was over.
After the Arsenal match I said those who wouldn't accept 3rd previously would/should change that view now, you disagreed and argued we could still win the league or at least had more chance of that than we did dropping out of the top four.
With yet another loss and the gap behind us decreasing and that above us increasing, plus the fact that 3rd and 4th hold major differences in terms of the automatic qualification I would just like to ask you as of NOW would you accept third if offered? or do you still believe we have more chance of winning the league than we do losing third or even fourth spot?
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
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If we went back to the time when the question was posited, i would make exactly the same choice and still can't understand anyone, at that time, not making the same decision - genuinely can't understand it.
If you were to ask me this evening, obviously, I am gonna say, "Yeah, we ain't got a chance of winning the league and the Goons and Chelsea are uncomfortably close."
If, however, we win all of our remaining matches (are we capable of doing that? see run after first two league games, for reference), and United/Citeh do, somehow, drop quite a few points, will anyone come on here and say "No, don't want title, I want third" :duh:
You make a decision, you face the consequences.
Any debate since then, afaiac, has been all about seeing how things could hypothetically go, and how the orignal choice could still show on the plus side. I am happy to stick to my original choice...because it was set in stone at the time the question was positted, afaiac.
If you were to ask me this evening, obviously, I am gonna say, "Yeah, we ain't got a chance of winning the league and the Goons and Chelsea are uncomfortably close."
If, however, we win all of our remaining matches (are we capable of doing that? see run after first two league games, for reference), and United/Citeh do, somehow, drop quite a few points, will anyone come on here and say "No, don't want title, I want third" :duh:
You make a decision, you face the consequences.
Any debate since then, afaiac, has been all about seeing how things could hypothetically go, and how the orignal choice could still show on the plus side. I am happy to stick to my original choice...because it was set in stone at the time the question was positted, afaiac.
Teddy Klinsmann
Well-Known Member
- Aug 5, 2008
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We must finish 3rd. You just know wed make things difficult with champions league play off - a trip to Moscow or something. Must get back on track ASAP. Sad that arsenal have had such a poor season yet in 2 weeks could be ahead of us!
AngerManagement
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2004
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Surely the whole point (if there is one at all) of answering a hypothetical question is to answer it in terms as if it were real.
Its all well and good saying from the safety of knowing your answer has no accountability something that makes a good sound byte of positivity and whatever, but realistically even when the thread was first made we had very little chance of winning the league
Saying "we could win all our games and win the league so why would anyone take 3rd" is like a QPR fan saying why would anyone accept PL survival at the start of this season when if they won all their games they could win the league. Hypothetically and Mathematically QPR could have won the league before the start of the season, but realistically they should be more than happy with survival and by the same logic so should we have been with third.
I think even at the time of the thread, or indeed any time after the Man City match most if not all Spurs fans would have taken 3rd if it were really an option to do so because frankly we stood much more realistic chance of losing what we had than we ever did of improving our position.
I'm not even being doom and gloom, I am perfectly happy with the progress we are making, in fact for a time I think we were ahead of schedule. As long as we secure CL football this season I am happy.
I am just of the opinion personally that anyone who actually thought we could or would win the league this year was day dreaming from the start, you only have to look at the limited number of teams who have ever won the league and the circumstances that lead to it to see it is a very difficult task and does not happen over night.
We are at least another two years away from being a Title contender in my opinion, but if we continue our progress at the same rate we can get to that level. I just don't think we have ever been at that level just yet, you disagree with me, that is fine each to their own.
Its all well and good saying from the safety of knowing your answer has no accountability something that makes a good sound byte of positivity and whatever, but realistically even when the thread was first made we had very little chance of winning the league
Saying "we could win all our games and win the league so why would anyone take 3rd" is like a QPR fan saying why would anyone accept PL survival at the start of this season when if they won all their games they could win the league. Hypothetically and Mathematically QPR could have won the league before the start of the season, but realistically they should be more than happy with survival and by the same logic so should we have been with third.
I think even at the time of the thread, or indeed any time after the Man City match most if not all Spurs fans would have taken 3rd if it were really an option to do so because frankly we stood much more realistic chance of losing what we had than we ever did of improving our position.
I'm not even being doom and gloom, I am perfectly happy with the progress we are making, in fact for a time I think we were ahead of schedule. As long as we secure CL football this season I am happy.
I am just of the opinion personally that anyone who actually thought we could or would win the league this year was day dreaming from the start, you only have to look at the limited number of teams who have ever won the league and the circumstances that lead to it to see it is a very difficult task and does not happen over night.
We are at least another two years away from being a Title contender in my opinion, but if we continue our progress at the same rate we can get to that level. I just don't think we have ever been at that level just yet, you disagree with me, that is fine each to their own.
ethanedwards
Snowflake incarnate.
- Nov 24, 2006
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
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AM - of course the whole poipnt is to answer it as though it were real - and, as though it were real, I just don't get anyone, at the time it was asked not wanting us to go for a title tilt - even if massive outsiders. I mean, as I said at the time, it was far less likely that we would drop out of the top 4. And, the other thing was, I think Citeh will be stronger next season, so we may not get such a good (outside) shot at the title again for another 50 years - on that basis, how could you not want to to go for glory, when the worst possible likely forfeit would be finishing 4th (our pre-season target), with, still, the possibility of the Cup even if we did suffer the horrible ignominy of finishing 4th.
Honestly, I'm not being funny, or looking for a big argument or anything, but I honestly just do not get how any Spurs fan at the time that the question was posited would have answered in the affirmative.
:sleepy:
Honestly, I'm not being funny, or looking for a big argument or anything, but I honestly just do not get how any Spurs fan at the time that the question was posited would have answered in the affirmative.
:sleepy:
nightgoat
Well-Known Member
- Sep 12, 2005
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They'll still have most of the PL referees in their pocket, though, so I doubt it'll make much difference.
