Is football getting a bit rubbish now?

[mattdefoe]

football will always be the best sport in the world, Regardless of era's thats what makes it so great is these comparisions.

I think in the 80s we should remember english teams were banned from europe... could certain english teams of challenged for honours had it not been for liverpool fans ....

 

[mattdefoe]

also why dont we discuss R9? and zidane? and ronaldinho at his peak.

For me the 90s had some superb midfielders, the likes of effenburg you dont really see players like them anymore.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

Over here perhaps, but its only just starting to take off in the US. With a system built around maintaining equality and the biggest melting pot of cultures possible football itself will be fine.

good point.

 

[SNAFU_Clarke]

also why dont we discuss R9? and zidane? and ronaldinho at his peak.

For me the 90s had some superb midfielders, the likes of effenburg you dont really see players like them anymore.

for me it's not really about the players but the platform they are playing on. 20 years ago you could build a side and compete at the highest level wherever you were in europe more or less. that doesn't really happen now. there is a select cabal of clubs that have cemented their positions in the hierarchy of football and only ludicrous sums of money allow other clubs the possibility to break into that cabal.

 

[spursphil]

The old people in this thread are making my head hurt.

Don't worry Omars, you will be an old boy one day yourself.:rofl:
To many of the Sky generation you would think football only started with the advent of the Premier League. Anyone who played before that had to be slow and unfit, had sausage & mash for a pre match meal washed down with 3 pints of light & bitter! and couldn't possibly be as good as David Beckham.

Show boating and celebrity status are valued more by the twitter followers and Ronaldo is top of the pops, and he earns more in a week that a soldier fighting in Afganistan earns in five years.

Its not what you can do, its how you do it that counts, and the boy Messi does it the right way, a proper team player that looks like he is just enjoying playing football. I love the way he just glides past defenders with great close ball control.
Players like Klinsman, Gazza and Ginola played the game with a smile on their faces and brought joy to all who watched them.

 

[Spurs in Belgium]

I am in total agreement, I do find myself sometimes wishing I could go back in time to grounds that were standing had atmosphere and European games with flares and passion.. I believe we play some lovely football at the moment but it does make my blood boil how these so called big clubs prance around like they own the premiership just cause some rich sugar daddy has bailed em out!! The arrogance of the fans of these teams astounds me at times, they have very short memories. Anyway this is the way of football now the heart and soul has been ripped out of the European game.. Although I felt for river plates fans it does show how it has evened out more in the south American leagues..

You will never see the likes of that happening in the premier league that's for sure

:clap::clap: I feel sorry for the younger fans that have not experienced the passion of stadia in the 80's. Players today are also totally out of touch with the fans.

 

[stemark44]

The old people in this thread are making my head hurt.

If you are fortunate enough to reach the age of 52 in your life,I will give you a bit of free advice,if you think that at 52 you are old.............you are probably fucked!:grin:

 

[spursphil]

Here's a yearly breakdown of all the teams that improved their league position by more than five places and finished in the top six:

1970 – Derby promotion to 4th; Coventry 20th to 6th
1971 – Arsenal 12th to 1st; Spurs 11th to 3rd; Wolves 13th to 4th
1972 – Derby 9th to 1st; Manchester City 11th to 4th
1973 – Ipswich 13th to 4th; West Ham 14th to 6th
1974 – Stoke 15th to 5th; Burnley promotion to 6th
1975 – Sheffield Utd 13th to 6th
1976 – QPR 11th to 2nd; Manchester Utd promotion to 3rd
1977 – Manchester City 8th to 2nd; Aston Villa 16th to 4th; Newcastle 15th to 5th
1978 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 1st; Everton 9th to 3rd
1979 – Ipswich 18th to 6th
1980 – Manchester Utd 9th to 2nd; Wolves 18th to 6th
1981 – Aston Villa 7th to 1st; West Brom 10th to 4th
1982 – Spurs 10th to 4th; Swansea promotion to 6th
1983 – Watford promotion to 2nd; Nottingham Forest 12th to 5th
1984 – Southampton 12th to 2nd; QPR promotion to 5th
1985 – Everton 7th to 1st; Chelsea promotion to 6th
1986 – West Ham 16th to 3rd
1987 – Norwich promotion to 5th; Wimbledon promotion to 6th
1988 – Manchester Utd 11th to 2nd; QPR 16th to 5th
1989 – Norwich 14th to 4th; Derby 15th to 5th; Spurs 13th to 6th
1990 – Aston Villa 17th to 2nd; Chelsea promotion to 5th
1991 – Crystal Palace 15th to 3rd; Leeds promotion to 4th; Manchester City 14th to 5th; Manchester Utd 13th to 6th
1992 – Sheffield Wed promotion to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th

1993 – Norwich 18th to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th
1994 – Newcastle promotion to 3rd; Arsenal 10th to 4th; Leeds 17th to 5th; Wimbledon 12th to 6th
1995 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 3rd
1996 – Aston Villa 18th to 4th; Arsenal 12th to 5th; Everton 15th to 6th
1997 – NONE
1998 – Leeds 11th to 5th; Blackburn Rovers 13th to 6th
1999 – NONE
2000 – NONE
2001 – Ipswich promotion to 5th
2002 – Newcastle 11th to 4th
2003 – NONE
2004 – Aston Villa 16th to 6th
2005 – Everton 17th to 4th
2006 – Blackburn 15th to 6th
2007 – NONE
2008 – NONE
2009 – NONE
2010 – NONE
2011 – NONE

Once upon a time there was a League Championship that we ALL could aspire to.

 

[cusop]

In the USA at the moment there is a show called FA Cup legends doing the rounds on Fox, the spurs legends remind me of how far behind we currently are.

With peeps trying to equate Thud with Hoddle, just bloody ridiculous, these players of tester year were terrific and they had great skill.

We are fortunate to have a great entertaining side today and hopefully it will continue to improve. Thank good form Modric Bale and Lennon. Thank god for VDV.. We need more

 

[StartingPrice]

Here's a yearly breakdown of all the teams that improved their league position by more than five places and finished in the top six:

1970 – Derby promotion to 4th; Coventry 20th to 6th
1971 – Arsenal 12th to 1st; Spurs 11th to 3rd; Wolves 13th to 4th
1972 – Derby 9th to 1st; Manchester City 11th to 4th
1973 – Ipswich 13th to 4th; West Ham 14th to 6th
1974 – Stoke 15th to 5th; Burnley promotion to 6th
1975 – Sheffield Utd 13th to 6th
1976 – QPR 11th to 2nd; Manchester Utd promotion to 3rd
1977 – Manchester City 8th to 2nd; Aston Villa 16th to 4th; Newcastle 15th to 5th
1978 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 1st; Everton 9th to 3rd
1979 – Ipswich 18th to 6th
1980 – Manchester Utd 9th to 2nd; Wolves 18th to 6th
1981 – Aston Villa 7th to 1st; West Brom 10th to 4th
1982 – Spurs 10th to 4th; Swansea promotion to 6th
1983 – Watford promotion to 2nd; Nottingham Forest 12th to 5th
1984 – Southampton 12th to 2nd; QPR promotion to 5th
1985 – Everton 7th to 1st; Chelsea promotion to 6th
1986 – West Ham 16th to 3rd
1987 – Norwich promotion to 5th; Wimbledon promotion to 6th
1988 – Manchester Utd 11th to 2nd; QPR 16th to 5th
1989 – Norwich 14th to 4th; Derby 15th to 5th; Spurs 13th to 6th
1990 – Aston Villa 17th to 2nd; Chelsea promotion to 5th
1991 – Crystal Palace 15th to 3rd; Leeds promotion to 4th; Manchester City 14th to 5th; Manchester Utd 13th to 6th
1992 – Sheffield Wed promotion to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th

1993 – Norwich 18th to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th
1994 – Newcastle promotion to 3rd; Arsenal 10th to 4th; Leeds 17th to 5th; Wimbledon 12th to 6th
1995 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 3rd
1996 – Aston Villa 18th to 4th; Arsenal 12th to 5th; Everton 15th to 6th
1997 – NONE
1998 – Leeds 11th to 5th; Blackburn Rovers 13th to 6th
1999 – NONE
2000 – NONE
2001 – Ipswich promotion to 5th
2002 – Newcastle 11th to 4th
2003 – NONE
2004 – Aston Villa 16th to 6th
2005 – Everton 17th to 4th
2006 – Blackburn 15th to 6th
2007 – NONE
2008 – NONE
2009 – NONE
2010 – NONE
2011 – NONE

Once upon a time there was a League Championship that we ALL could aspire to.

:clap: for the hard work and the evidence it provides.

I think folk are confusing different standards of good and rubbish. Football today is far more cinematic (for want of a better term), at the top - like many other sports/games, including Snooker and Darts. The pitches are lush in a way we never saw growing up. There is so much hype now. And the top teams, will all of the finances, monopolise the best players, and therefore look incredibly slick.

But the cinematic expreince has replaced raw atmosphere. The hype gets boring. And the top teams, monololising the best players has come at the price of clubs being able to nurture and develop teams that can grow into sides capable of competing at the top, as this shows. It has taken us a long time and a lot of money and planning to split the (much vaunted) Big 4 - and now we have, a club with a huge amount of money given to them from nowhere has (seemingly) leapfrogged us. Which suggests the only way for our game to become competitive again is a club to receive a huge donation of money. Is that good?

 

[Maske2g]

If we take a look back to Pre Bosman, to the last time a real Outsider won the league (all be it through a cash injection), maybe the old folks will be a bit careful for what they wish for.

Yep, Blackburn Rovers thrilled us all with their awesome midfield of Ripley, Batty, Sherwood, and Wilcox and the SAS.

Is there still a bid out there?

YOURS.

 

[Paxtonite]

Here's a yearly breakdown of all the teams that improved their league position by more than five places and finished in the top six:

1970 – Derby promotion to 4th; Coventry 20th to 6th
1971 – Arsenal 12th to 1st; Spurs 11th to 3rd; Wolves 13th to 4th
1972 – Derby 9th to 1st; Manchester City 11th to 4th
1973 – Ipswich 13th to 4th; West Ham 14th to 6th
1974 – Stoke 15th to 5th; Burnley promotion to 6th
1975 – Sheffield Utd 13th to 6th
1976 – QPR 11th to 2nd; Manchester Utd promotion to 3rd
1977 – Manchester City 8th to 2nd; Aston Villa 16th to 4th; Newcastle 15th to 5th
1978 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 1st; Everton 9th to 3rd
1979 – Ipswich 18th to 6th
1980 – Manchester Utd 9th to 2nd; Wolves 18th to 6th
1981 – Aston Villa 7th to 1st; West Brom 10th to 4th
1982 – Spurs 10th to 4th; Swansea promotion to 6th
1983 – Watford promotion to 2nd; Nottingham Forest 12th to 5th
1984 – Southampton 12th to 2nd; QPR promotion to 5th
1985 – Everton 7th to 1st; Chelsea promotion to 6th
1986 – West Ham 16th to 3rd
1987 – Norwich promotion to 5th; Wimbledon promotion to 6th
1988 – Manchester Utd 11th to 2nd; QPR 16th to 5th
1989 – Norwich 14th to 4th; Derby 15th to 5th; Spurs 13th to 6th
1990 – Aston Villa 17th to 2nd; Chelsea promotion to 5th
1991 – Crystal Palace 15th to 3rd; Leeds promotion to 4th; Manchester City 14th to 5th; Manchester Utd 13th to 6th
1992 – Sheffield Wed promotion to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th

1993 – Norwich 18th to 3rd; Blackburn promotion to 4th
1994 – Newcastle promotion to 3rd; Arsenal 10th to 4th; Leeds 17th to 5th; Wimbledon 12th to 6th
1995 – Nottingham Forest promotion to 3rd
1996 – Aston Villa 18th to 4th; Arsenal 12th to 5th; Everton 15th to 6th
1997 – NONE
1998 – Leeds 11th to 5th; Blackburn Rovers 13th to 6th
1999 – NONE
2000 – NONE
2001 – Ipswich promotion to 5th
2002 – Newcastle 11th to 4th
2003 – NONE
2004 – Aston Villa 16th to 6th
2005 – Everton 17th to 4th
2006 – Blackburn 15th to 6th
2007 – NONE
2008 – NONE
2009 – NONE
2010 – NONE
2011 – NONE

Once upon a time there was a League Championship that we ALL could aspire to.

Interesting yet depressing reading.

The feeling that "football is a bit crap" is probably due to the fact that "competitiveness" has largely been eradicated over time due to money. It is no longer about the playing field being that green stuff that everyone runs around on, but the board room. Championships and trophies can now be bought and even if wealthier teams succeeded more in the past, the not so rich teams could also succeed (Derby County etc). It is no longer about football generated income. Who knew the names of club owners 20/30 years ago??

 

[bigturnip]

If we take a look back to Pre Bosman, to the last time a real Outsider won the league (all be it through a cash injection), maybe the old folks will be a bit careful for what they wish for.

Yep, Blackburn Rovers thrilled us all with their awesome midfield of Ripley, Batty, Sherwood, and Wilcox and the SAS.

Is there still a bid out there?

YOURS.

Blackburn winning the title is recent, it's after the Premier League started pouring money into football, certainly not the evidence needed to convince people that the 'old' days were just as bad, 1995 is hardly the 'old' days.

 

[Maske2g]

Blackburn winning the title is recent, it's after the Premier League started pouring money into football, certainly not the evidence needed to convince people that the 'old' days were just as bad, 1995 is hardly the 'old' days.

it was 16 years ago. A different lifetime in football terms. Nice to jump into a post 3 days late, skip to the end and totally miss the change in dynamics.....

English football was still way behind the Italians and Spanish with transfer fees until this century.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

it was 16 years ago. A different lifetime in football terms. Nice to jump into a post 3 days late, skip to the end and totally miss the change in dynamics.....

English football was still way behind the Italians and Spanish with transfer fees until this century.

yeah and now Italian football is broke as is the world champion la liga team who look to be continuing their spending regardless :shrug:

professional football most definately has went to shit because of sky and the cl and abunch of rich geezers trying to bleed it dry ffs Qatar just bought the world cup lol

the cl killed the uefa cup and the the fa cup as top level competitions and for me and many other people it doesn't come close to replacing them, the cl is a murderer :lol:

 

[Maske2g]

yeah and now Italian football is broke as is the world champion la liga team who look to be continuing their spending regardless :shrug:

professional football most definately has went to shit because of sky and the cl and abunch of rich geezers trying to bleed it dry ffs Qatar just bought the world cup lol

the cl killed the uefa cup and the the fa cup as top level competitions and for me and many other people it doesn't come close to replacing them, the cl is a murderer :lol:

Italian football is broke because the stadiums are empty. A combination of the earlier lauded negative tactics, dyer athletics style stadiums, and the match fixing that had been going on for decades under the eye of the mafia, finally being exposed, has resulted in the stadiums getting about 15 fans for many years, and as we know more than anyone, you need a big full stadium, to compete at the top.

Football is a big business, and like any big business, they are going to be people trying to capitalise from that. It's the same in every major sport. The big US sports in particular. Fortunately for us, foul play and corruption is frowned upon here, and whilst it goes on, there are businesses dedicated to punish the culprits.

The Cl may hasn't killed the Uefa cup, the shit format has killed it.

In the late 80's we didn't have European football, before that we had only 3/4 teams in Europe, playing against the best teams on the continent.

Now, we have 4 in the CL and 3/4 in the uefa cup.

Football is no longer competitive you all say? Correct me if I'm wrong didn't we see Fulham and Middlesborough in the Uefa cup final? That would never have happened years ago. Boro were relegated and Fulham were about 12th in the league.

We've seen teams from Russia win in Europe, Greece win the European Championships, all be it very boringly, and yes the CL has been dominated by Spain and England, but last year we had Germans and Italians in the final, and I'll add again, history has been littered with single teams dominating Europe for extended periods. Its nothing new.

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

one I couldn't give a fuck about the American sports or their format

two the Uefa Cup was dead long before it became the Europa League

three Fulham and Boro got to the Uefa final as few teams give a feck about it these days

and four I couldn't be arsed getting into it with you as you're clearly a wanker
























only joking :lol:

 

[bigturnip]

it was 16 years ago. A different lifetime in football terms.

Yes, but still post Premier League money, I don't think the people who say football was better in the old days are talking about 1995, so it's a pretty invalid argument to dismiss the old days as no better to now because of one example in recent history. And that one example is of how money bought the title, the exact point we're trying to make.

Nice to jump into a post 3 days late, skip to the end and totally miss the change in dynamics.....

I suggest you research this a little bit more.

English football was still way behind the Italians and Spanish with transfer fees until this century.

Exactly, money has taken the competitiveness out of the game.

 

[Spurger King]

Football is no longer competitive you all say? Correct me if I'm wrong didn't we see Fulham and Middlesborough in the Uefa cup final? That would never have happened years ago. Boro were relegated and Fulham were about 12th in the league.

I'd say that supports the opposite of what you are arguing. I'm not saying that you don't raise some great points, but I'd say that Fulham and Middlesborough were both aided in their advancement to the latter stages by the indifference of teams earlier on.

A lot of the top teams see that tournament as a distraction. Spurs will probably field pretty weak teams as well. It's certainly not a competition where all teams go out all guns blazing trying to win it. Obviously when you get to the quarters and beyond it becomes more serious, so I'm not trying to dismiss the achievements of both those teams making the final, but I wouldn't say it really represents a win for competitiveness.

 

[Maske2g]

I'd say that supports the opposite of what you are arguing. I'm not saying that you don't raise some great points, but I'd say that Fulham and Middlesborough were both aided in their advancement to the latter stages by the indifference of teams earlier on.

A lot of the top teams see that tournament as a distraction. Spurs will probably field pretty weak teams as well. It's certainly not a competition where all teams go out all guns blazing trying to win it. Obviously when you get to the quarters and beyond it becomes more serious, so I'm not trying to dismiss the achievements of both those teams making the final, but I wouldn't say it really represents a win for competitiveness.

Fair point, you get some average dross in the competition early doors. Completely agree. You do in the CL as well, werder Bremen were dogshit.

You did so even more in the old days of the Uefa Cup. Remember the days of drawing minnows in the first round that hadn't found their commodities wealth yet. We won a game 8-0 in 83/84.....

Boro played some crap, but they beat Roma and Stuttgart. And I think they were 2 behind against Basle in the semi?

Fulham beat Shaktar Donetsk, who won it this year, Juventus who weren't the side of old, but had some very experiences players, and they were 4-1 down at one point, Wolfsberg and Hamberg, and were 4 mins from pens in the final.