Is football getting a bit rubbish now?

[bigturnip]

Italian football is broke because the stadiums are empty. A combination of the earlier lauded negative tactics, dyer athletics style stadiums, and the match fixing that had been going on for decades under the eye of the mafia, finally being exposed, has resulted in the stadiums getting about 15 fans for many years, and as we know more than anyone, you need a big full stadium, to compete at the top.

Football is a big business, and like any big business, they are going to be people trying to capitalise from that. It's the same in every major sport. The big US sports in particular. Fortunately for us, foul play and corruption is frowned upon here, and whilst it goes on, there are businesses dedicated to punish the culprits.

The Cl may hasn't killed the Uefa cup, the shit format has killed it.

In the late 80's we didn't have European football, before that we had only 3/4 teams in Europe, playing against the best teams on the continent.

Now, we have 4 in the CL and 3/4 in the uefa cup.

Football is no longer competitive you all say? Correct me if I'm wrong didn't we see Fulham and Middlesborough in the Uefa cup final? That would never have happened years ago. Boro were relegated and Fulham were about 12th in the league.

We've seen teams from Russia win in Europe, Greece win the European Championships, all be it very boringly, and yes the CL has been dominated by Spain and England, but last year we had Germans and Italians in the final, and I'll add again, history has been littered with single teams dominating Europe for extended periods. Its nothing new.

Can you really see the likes of Ajax or Celtic ever winning the top prize in Europe again? it will be dominated by the big 4 leagues (England, Spain, Italy & Germany) for the rest of time if nothing changes. In the last 15 years there have only been 2 finals featuring clubs from outside those 4 leagues and 1 winner, in the 15 years prior to that there were 9 finals featuring clubs from outside those 4 leagues and 6 winners.

 

[Maske2g]

Can you really see the likes of Ajax or Celtic ever winning the top prize in Europe again? it will be dominated by the big 4 leagues (England, Spain, Italy & Germany) for the rest of time if nothing changes. In the last 15 years there have only been 2 finals featuring clubs from outside those 4 leagues and 1 winner, in the 15 years prior to that there were 9 finals featuring clubs from outside those 4 leagues and 6 winners.

Already discussed this one.

The European cup of the 80's with 1 team from each country, cannot be compared to the CL now with 3/4 clubs from the 4 top leagues. It's a longer tournament, and with a few exceptions, Cream will always rise to the top.

If every player was exactly the same person, Simple probability alone would dictate the odds of the above still occuring.

 

[bigturnip]

Already discussed this one.

The European cup of the 80's with 1 team from each country, cannot be compared to the CL now with 3/4 clubs from the 4 top leagues. It's a longer tournament, and with a few exceptions, Cream will always rise to the top.

If every player was exactly the same person, Simple probability alone would dictate the odds of the above still occuring.

Yes, but the format has only been changed because of the money now involved and the broadcasters wanting teams from the biggest leagues. The point is in the 80s and before there was a much more level playing field across Europe, big clubs from small leagues could rise to the top, now it's almost impossible to create a big club in a small league because of the lack of money. If you're happy seeing a handful of clubs from a handful of leagues winning every year then that's great, but money has reduced competitiveness.

 

[Maske2g]

Yes, but the format has only been changed because of the money now involved and the broadcasters wanting teams from the biggest leagues. The point is in the 80s and before there was a much more level playing field across Europe, big clubs from small leagues could rise to the top, now it's almost impossible to create a big club in a small league because of the lack of money. If you're happy seeing a handful of clubs from a handful of leagues winning every year then that's great, but money has reduced competitiveness.

I am happy. I can watch the worlds best week in week out.

In the 80's what would we have given to watch Maradona, Hugo Sanchez, Gullit and Van Basten more than once every 2-4 years?

 

[bigturnip]

I am happy. I can watch the worlds best week in week out.

In the 80's what would we have given to watch Maradona, Hugo Sanchez, Gullit and Van Basten more than once every 2-4 years?

But that's just because of the increased TV coverage, what you're watching is half of the world's best players play week in week out and the other half sitting on a bench week in week out. Now imagine you had the same TV coverage, but clubs weren't in a position to have some of the best players on the bench every week and they were being fielded by other teams, how much better would that be?

 

[Maske2g]

But that's just because of the increased TV coverage, what you're watching is half of the world's best players play week in week out and the other half sitting on a bench week in week out. Now imagine you had the same TV coverage, but clubs weren't in a position to have some of the best players on the bench every week and they were being fielded by other teams, how much better would that be?

Communist football!!!

I don't think the splendid TV coverage would exist if the players were so thinly spread.

The 2nd tier leagues still have some World Class players, but it's no coincidence that the 5 most shown leagues in England are the biggest....+SPL.....

 

[spursphil]

I am happy. I can watch the worlds best week in week out.

In the 80's what would we have given to watch Maradona, Hugo Sanchez, Gullit and Van Basten more than once every 2-4 years?

Of course you are happy, you bought the sky spin and hype hook line and sinker.
Premier league, best league in the world you say, but you miss the point completly, it has the best top 5 in the world, the rest of the league is dross.
We have the richest teams creaming off most of the revenue and the sky generation creaming their pants over it. Where is the competitiveness?

The modern media lauded up our "Golden Generation" didn't Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham look world class scoring against Wolves, Wigan and Birmingham. Yet on the International stage they looked ordinary, why? because the overall standard of the league is poor.

Those of us that watched football in the 70's and 80's can see it instantly.
I get the feeling that you are not old enough to have seen Hoddle play? If you did you would never big up Ronaldo like you do.

Hoddle was the pass master, who scored spectacular goals with either foot, his balance, vision and reading of the game was 2nd to none. His passing was just a dream to witness, 70 yard cross field balls delivered with inch perfection. Ardilles said it just wasn't the fact he would pass well "It was the quality of the ball recieved, you never had to break stride the ball was so good"
Wenger said that Hoodle was the the most skilful player he has ever worked with. Hoddle played in a more balanced league than we see today, the standard of opposition was far higher than today.

Communist football ??? What rubbish you come out with, the majority of football fans want to see more of a level playing field.

Yes the big clubs dominated in the past, but the difference was there was a rough equality which meant that every so often a talented manager could build a team and challenge for the title. Sadly today that can't happen, and the league is much poorer because of that.

 

[tooey]

Of course you are happy, you bought the sky spin and hype hook line and sinker.
Premier league, best league in the world you say, but you miss the point completly, it has the best top 5 in the world, the rest of the league is dross.
We have the richest teams creaming off most of the revenue and the sky generation creaming their pants over it. Where is the competitiveness?

The modern media lauded up our "Golden Generation" didn't Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham look world class scoring against Wolves, Wigan and Birmingham. Yet on the International stage they looked ordinary, why? because the overall standard of the league is poor.

Those of us that watched football in the 70's and 80's can see it instantly.
I get the feeling that you are not old enough to have seen Hoddle play? If you did you would never big up Ronaldo like you do.

Hoddle was the pass master, who scored spectacular goals with either foot, his balance, vision and reading of the game was 2nd to none. His passing was just a dream to witness, 70 yard cross field balls delivered with inch perfection. Ardilles said it just wasn't the fact he would pass well "It was the quality of the ball recieved, you never had to break stride the ball was so good"
Wenger said that Hoodle was the the most skilful player he has ever worked with. Hoddle played in a more balanced league than we see today, the standard of opposition was far higher than today.

Communist football ??? What rubbish you come out with, the majority of football fans want to see more of a level playing field.

Yes the big clubs dominated in the past, but the difference was there was a rough equality which meant that every so often a talented manager could build a team and challenge for the title. Sadly today that can't happen, and the league is much poorer because of that.

I agree with most of this post. Minus that. It is quite clear that football in this era is far more demanding both physically and mentally. You watch a match back in the hoddle era and its instantly obvious that he had so much more time on the ball than the likes or ronaldo or messi get.

Technically is the game better? I wouldn't say yes or no. Its just a lot different.

I do however agree with the point about the EPL not being all its cracked up to be in terms of quality. Its quite clear the spanish league is far superior in terms of technical ability, this is being proven in european comp's as well as on the international stage.

 

[Maske2g]

I wrote a bloody lovely reply and got kicked out!!! I'm off to the gym....

 

[spursphil]

I agree with most of this post. Minus that. It is quite clear that football in this era is far more demanding both physically and mentally. You watch a match back in the hoddle era and its instantly obvious that he had so much more time on the ball than the likes or ronaldo or messi get.

Technically is the game better? I wouldn't say yes or no. Its just a lot different.

I do however agree with the point about the EPL not being all its cracked up to be in terms of quality. Its quite clear the spanish league is far superior in terms of technical ability, this is being proven in european comp's as well as on the international stage.

Good reply, Hoddle was often tightly marked but if that was the case he would lay it off quick and often made his marker look foolish with a one-two which would open up space. But defenders could often stand off safe in the knowledge that they could put a hard challenge in when the opportunity arose.

As for Ronaldo & Messi, todays defenders don't have a license to tackle like in the 80's, there job is to mark space, often the only option is to close the attacker down. Tackles and diving bring more free kicks, and with todays ball that swerves all over the shop, more goals.

 

[Misfit]

The CL is alright in the latter stages - but I've expressed the view on here many times that it should actually be for champions only as the player market is no longer spread out and only saturated in 3 or 4 clubs in 2 or 3 countries. Still, I won't get into another rant about that particular topic and keep this relatively short.

The CL is largely dull and that largely boils down to teams from the "big 5 leagues" generally being the same yr on yr, save for some variety from zee German and the French leagues.

The biggest evil of the CL, and make no mistake - it is evil (pure and unadulterated), is the effect it has had on the domestic leagues. Save a catatrosphic financial mismangement, and even then that doesn't really seem to matter anymore (I'm looking at you Chelsea), the teams who manage top 4 then have the funds to largely close the door yr on yr.

Every single league is like La Liga. 2 huge entities winning it yr on yr with the occasional challenge and even rarer success of a league title by the other two usual suspects. Outside of that little gaggle, don't even hope anymore. Just watch some footy and be obsmacked when the planets align just so that couple of times a decade for a brief season when one of the untermenchen get their unwashed fizzogs in the door.

Add to that, random billionaries/war criminals/wanted fugitives/billionaire fugitive war criminals buying utterly wanky clubs and using them as the penis extension to end all penis extensions and here we are...

In a footballing world where a financially healthy club could even build a new stadium and sort its long-term future out and then find that once again, that matters not one jot. No CL, you'll still end up picking the scraps (fine players they might be but the unwanted all the same) because some club finishes 4th each and every yr and they get their massive wages and two guaranteed games a season again an Inter/Barca/Bayern in which to show the world the latest hair product they're endorsing.

I did say relatively short and failed, so with that, fuck you CL, fuck you for absolutely ruining domestic football. It's not like you're a brilliant competiton in your own right, you fucking **** of a tourney. First Blatter, then Platini!

/sharpens knife

 

[StartingPrice]

The CL is alright in the latter stages - but I've expressed the view on here many times that it should actually be for champions only as the player market is no longer spread out and only saturated in 3 or 4 clubs in 2 or 3 countries. Still, I won't get into another rant about that particular topic and keep this relatively short.

The CL is largely dull and that largely boils down to teams from the "big 5 leagues" generally being the same yr on yr, save for some variety from zee German and the French leagues.

The biggest evil of the CL, and make no mistake - it is evil (pure and unadulterated), is the effect it has had on the domestic leagues. Save a catatrosphic financial mismangement, and even then that doesn't really seem to matter anymore (I'm looking at you Chelsea), the teams who manage top 4 then have the funds to largely close the door yr on yr.

Every single league is like La Liga. 2 huge entities winning it yr on yr with the occasional challenge and even rarer success of a league title by the other two usual suspects. Outside of that little gaggle, don't even hope anymore. Just watch some footy and be obsmacked when the planets align just so that couple of times a decade for a brief season when one of the untermenchen get their unwashed fizzogs in the door.

Add to that, random billionaries/war criminals/wanted fugitives/billionaire fugitive war criminals buying utterly wanky clubs and using them as the penis extension to end all penis extensions and here we are...

In a footballing world where a financially healthy club could even build a new stadium and sort its long-term future out and then find that once again, that matters not one jot. No CL, you'll still end up picking the scraps (fine players they might be but the unwanted all the same) because some club finishes 4th each and every yr and they get their massive wages and two guaranteed games a season again an Inter/Barca/Bayern in which to show the world the latest hair product they're endorsing.

I did say relatively short and failed, so with that, fuck you CL, fuck you for absolutely ruining domestic football. It's not like you're a brilliant competiton in your own right, you fucking **** of a tourney. First Blatter, then Platini!

/sharpens knife

There's nothing quite like the ire of a jilted suitor:grin:
+1 for usage of 'visog' and 'untermenschen' (even if mispelt):up:

And quite true...even if a bit of a Null-Hypothesis...and just 'cos we're not in it this year.

 

[spursphil]

The CL is alright in the latter stages - but I've expressed the view on here many times that it should actually be for champions only as the player market is no longer spread out and only saturated in 3 or 4 clubs in 2 or 3 countries. Still, I won't get into another rant about that particular topic and keep this relatively short.

The CL is largely dull and that largely boils down to teams from the "big 5 leagues" generally being the same yr on yr, save for some variety from zee German and the French leagues.

The biggest evil of the CL, and make no mistake - it is evil (pure and unadulterated), is the effect it has had on the domestic leagues. Save a catatrosphic financial mismangement, and even then that doesn't really seem to matter anymore (I'm looking at you Chelsea), the teams who manage top 4 then have the funds to largely close the door yr on yr.

Every single league is like La Liga. 2 huge entities winning it yr on yr with the occasional challenge and even rarer success of a league title by the other two usual suspects. Outside of that little gaggle, don't even hope anymore. Just watch some footy and be obsmacked when the planets align just so that couple of times a decade for a brief season when one of the untermenchen get their unwashed fizzogs in the door.

Add to that, random billionaries/war criminals/wanted fugitives/billionaire fugitive war criminals buying utterly wanky clubs and using them as the penis extension to end all penis extensions and here we are...

In a footballing world where a financially healthy club could even build a new stadium and sort its long-term future out and then find that once again, that matters not one jot. No CL, you'll still end up picking the scraps (fine players they might be but the unwanted all the same) because some club finishes 4th each and every yr and they get their massive wages and two guaranteed games a season again an Inter/Barca/Bayern in which to show the world the latest hair product they're endorsing.

I did say relatively short and failed, so with that, fuck you CL, fuck you for absolutely ruining domestic football. It's not like you're a brilliant competiton in your own right, you fucking **** of a tourney. First Blatter, then Platini!

/sharpens knife

Cracking post, the self serving cartel that dreamed up the Champions League need to be taught a lesson big time. And the governing bodies that have a duty to protect the game have failed miserably.

How can we change it for the benefit of the game as a whole? Stop seeding teams so giant killing can occur like the old days. Diversify the teams reaching the champions league by allowing Cup Winners automatic entry along with the winners of the Europa league.

The season before last the 4 English teams in the CL earned £120 million in prize money, that money should go back to the league and be distributed evenly among the rest of the league not competing in the CL.
Can you imagine a day when just winning the trophy was prize enough?

The Financial Fair play rules soon to come in are a start, but will not have the desired effect untill we sort out the inequalities in the distribution of wealth, be it TV revenue, gate receipts or prize money.

I'm not sure if a salary cap could work, but a team salary cap could based on turnover. Teams could have a annual salary cap of say £60m for example. The sugar daddy clubs like chelsea and man city could spend more if they wished, but then they would invoke a "salary cap tax" for every pound they spent over the £60m they would have to pay a pound in Salary cap tax, the tax to be distributed around the league. Thereby overspending would not be worthwhile.

TV money must be distributed evenly throughout the leagues like it once was.

Over time we could get back some sort of parity again.

 

[Rupstoh]

dont think weve been 'right at the top' for more than the last 3 or 4 seasons in all fairness.

Six decades actually :grin:

 

[StartingPrice]

Six decades actually :grin:

I would say we were a top team if not actually First Div Champions for a the first half, or so, of the 80s - plenty of Cups, including UEFA, and actually competing for the title.

 

[Rupstoh]

I would say we were a top team if not actually First Div Champions for a the first half, or so, of the 80s - plenty of Cups, including UEFA, and actually competing for the title.

Maybe, but still no league title since 60/61.

 

[StartingPrice]

Maybe, but still no league title since 60/61.

Do you believe that by repeating it you instill some magical proprty of efficacy...you repsonded to a post that didn't mentionleague titles, just being a top team. I pointed out that we were a top team in the first half + of the 80s. I didn't say we won the league, I said we genuinely competed for it.

We all know how long it has been...you don't need to make it sound like you are gloating or belittling the club.

 

[Rupstoh]

Do you believe that by repeating it you instill some magical proprty of efficacy...you repsonded to a post that didn't mentionleague titles, just being a top team. I pointed out that we were a top team in the first half + of the 80s. I didn't say we won the league, I said we genuinely competed for it.

We all know how long it has been...you don't need to make it sound like you are gloating or belittling the club.

Yawn!! Top team means top. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

'Top' means winning the league.

 

[StartingPrice]

Yawn!! Top team means top. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

'Top' means winning the league.

Are you stupid or something.
The OP was clearly talking in terms of a top team being one that is competing at the top, not one that is winning the league. You put your interpretation in, and I rejected it. I specifically stated that we hadn't won the league in the early to mid 80s but we certainly competed for it, and won several trophies, including a UEFA Cup...and that, by my way of accounting things (n.b MY and not YOUR, I wasn't asking your permission to view it the way I do), a TOP TEAM. We were a top team, not the top teamas defined by winning titles (I hope you understand this emphatic use of definite and indefinite articles). By your reckoning, I suppose Liverpool (as they won most titles) were the top team in the 80s, and therefore Forest couldn't have been, is that right? And to stretch the point further, every team is only a top team in the year they win a title?

After repeating that in your opinion we hadn't been a top team since winning the league made us so, I explained that repeating something doesn't necessarily make it efficacious,and that the OP had clearly been talking in terms of a team challenging at the top and winning trophies and not defining that as winning the league.

If that is what you believe, fine, but stop trying to condescend to anyone who disagrees with you...it is tedious.

Maybe you just have a problem actually reading texts and just want to continuously squawk your opinion at others because it must be right, yours:sleepy:

 

[fieryjack]

Yawn!! Top team means top. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th.

'Top' means winning the league.

Well done, you are this years winner of The Mr Pedantic award.
Again, well done.