Jermaine Jenas

[sirleytonbrisbane]

I can see Modric and Jenas being the centre midfield pairing in some home games. Jenas as a right miffielder in either 442 or 433 has always struck me as his best position because he doesn't have to carry the team from there and can just concentrate on his own game.

His success as a right midfielder will always depend on being in a team with a proper left winger as he'll tend to drift infield. But with a left winger around to give width that'll work out OK.

He is one of the best midfielders in the premiership outside of the top 4. Like everyone else i sometimes get frustrated with him. This is because his talent is so evident and his translation of it into great performances is so rare. Even so he has easily deserved his place in our starting line up and is a better bet than Lennon for the right mid spot.

 

[west indie]

your having a laugh...

 

[Michey]

He is one of the best midfielders in the premiership outside of the top 4.

I'll guess the rest of the teams are really up shit creek then....

 

[talkshowhost86]

It really depends on where Modric is going to play. Personally I don't see JJ playing alongside Modric in the middle of the park as I think Modric need a more defensive player next to him...particularly to start with.

If Modric starts on the left though as some have suggested he might, then JJ could play in the middle with a new DM as that's when he's at his best (such as when Carrick played with him).

I honestly think our lineup on the first day is going to be one of...

Lennon/Dos Santos - JJ - New DM - Modric

or

Lennon/Dos Santos - Modric - New DM - New LM/Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

 

[talkshowhost86]

And although my point of view on JJ is widely known (especially by DC Boy) I'll say it again for anyone else.

I think he's a great player on his day but his day does not come often enough. I think he's at his best as an attacking midfielder but he seems to largely show this against the weaker teams (eg Wigan and Derby this year). Far too often he disappears from games and although he does alot of work that people don't notice (his work-rate is excellent) I don't think he should be playing as a defensive player and when he's doing that we don't see the best of him.

I still think with a good defensive mid alongside him we could see more of the Ar5ena1 performances where he was immense. But I think that Modric could be the man to play alongside a new DM which spells bad news for JJ.

 

[johnmc]

And although my point of view on JJ is widely known (especially by DC Boy) I'll say it again for anyone else.

I think he's a great player on his day but his day does not come often enough. I think he's at his best as an attacking midfielder but he seems to largely show this against the weaker teams (eg Wigan and Derby this year). Far too often he disappears from games and although he does alot of work that people don't notice (his work-rate is excellent) I don't think he should be playing as a defensive player and when he's doing that we don't see the best of him.

I still think with a good defensive mid alongside him we could see more of the Ar5ena1 performances where he was immense. But I think that Modric could be the man to play alongside a new DM which spells bad news for JJ.

I can only agree with this. Can JJ find whats going to be needed, I doubt it, but would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[StockSpur]

the saddest thing is that someone who is so hopelessly inconsistent, constantly dissapears during games and is terrible in front of goal happenes to be consdiered our best midfielder. Doesnt say much for me.

 

[nickchrissi]

I think Ramos will give him one last chance, if he fails to perform when played in his first 8-10 games this season he will be out like a shot in January. I wouldn't be suprised if Juande let him go sooner.

 

[ultimateloner]

Jenas has good physique which is why he scores some simple goals when given time and space.

The problem is that we expect too much from him. He might be a solid performer but he doesn't win us games. He won't ever be that player you wish him to be - doesn't have the composure, the imagination etc. He doesn't have that extra edge you find in top players (even by the standards of top english players, e.g. Gerrard's drive, Lampard's positioning etc)

As things stand he is still our best midfielder, by a mile.

 

[spurs]

I agree with TSH86. It depends where Modric plays. Does Ramos think he's ready for CM or will he start on the left? That may also depend on who we get in as DM.

I think Jenas will still play a big part this year, but he may not be a certain starter anymore. But his versatility (CM, RW and RB) means he'l always be a good option from the bench.

While he may be inconsistent (I'm not going to be only person not to use that word!), I think Lennon and Zokora should be dropped before him.

 

[kkemal]

JJ

You guy's are truly crazy......JJ has bags of potential but last season he was shocking.....he played well in no more then 7 games........if we are going to push the big 4 we need to replace him, from what I've seen of Modric we have a proper midfielder......maybe he can teach JJ how to pass forward and follow his passes....WAKE UP YIDS

 

[yiddotilidie]

Jenas plus Carrick = our best defensive record
Jenas plus Zokora = shocking defensive record.

JJ is our most underrated player IMO, the problem isnt him, its the other muppets that he is forced to play with week in week out in the midfield.

Zokora is average at best. Lennon is a playboy that seems to never improve, Malbranque works his nuts off but thats it (squad player at best next season), and the Hudd only moves out of the centre circle when he feels like it, so lets wait and see how he performs when he only has to do the work of ONE person instead of wiping Zokora's arse for 90 minutes shall we??

 

[the_king]

Myself, I would think that JJ & Luka would make a pretty good partnership, i'm sure him, Zoko & Hud will all play plenty of games next season, hopefully JJ will have a big influence on our team, had a brilliant few months halfway into the season.

 

[joey55]

What is worng with JJ and Modric playing in a CM in a 442? The only examples of smaller, more creative players, playing in a 442, that I can think of are Scholes and Deco, and they both played with defensive minded box to box players (Keane and Costinha). Werder play Diego behind the 2 strikers and they don't stick a holding player behind him, they use Frings, who like Costinha and Keane, is a defensive box to box player (contrary to what our pundits at WC 2006 who clearly never watch German football say).

The idea that a little creative playmaker needs to play with a solid holding midfileder is just based on messageboard/computer game theory. In reality, he needs to be play with some who has the legs to get up and down the pitch for 90 mins and do the midfield running. JJ won the Young Player of the Year playing as a defensive minded box to box player. It's only since he came to SPurs and played with Carrick, that he's been seen as a goal scoring midfielder and quite frankly he isn't a very good one. He'll be great if reverted back to a more defensive player. He's got all the attributes needed to be a success. When he was at Newcastle he was always being compares to Vieira, yet since he's been at Spurs he's played more like Gerarrd. He should revert back to the Vieira, Keane, Costinha and Frings type of role.

I'm sure there are some examples, but can anyone name some Modric type players who have played in a 2 man CM alongside a solid holding player? It seems to me that these players usually play with a midfield partner who has a more all round game and has the athleticism to drive forward and still get back and defend.

 

[idlepete]

I'm sure there are some examples, but can anyone name some Modric type players who have played in a 2 man CM alongside a solid holding player?

Fabregas and Flamini/G.Silva?

 

[yanno]

I'm sure there are some examples, but can anyone name some Modric type players who have played in a 2 man CM alongside a solid holding player? It seems to me that these players usually play with a midfield partner who has a more all round game and has the athleticism to drive forward and still get back and defend.

This will degenerate into a scrap about what constitutes a "Modric-type player". However, here a few examples of holding alongside creative:

i) Wenger has usually played Fabregas alongside a holding player in CM, typically Gilberto Silva. Flamini had a little more licence to get forward this season, but is still essentially a DM.

ii) the creative passer Keita or Maresca alongside the holding DM Poulsen at Sevilla;

iii) the passer Xabi Alonso alongside the destroyer Mascherano at Liverpool. Benitez ended the season playing 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard as the ACM because he didn't trust a box-to-box CM like Gerrard in a 4-4-2.

However, ultimately I suspect the type of CM who plays alongside a Modric depends on the overall make-up of the team, and the coach's philosophy. At Sevilla, when Ramos played with attacking FBs and wide midfielders in a 4-4-2, he needed an out-and-out holding DM like Poulsen who's intelligent enough to cover when teammates are out-of-position.

 

[joey55]

This will degenerate into a scrap about what constitutes a "Modric-type player". However, here a few examples of holding alongside creative:

i) Wenger has usually played Fabregas alongside a holding player in CM, typically Gilberto Silva. Flamini had a little more licence to get forward this season, but is still essentially a DM.

ii) the creative passer Keita or Maresca alongside the holding DM Poulsen at Sevilla;

iii) the passer Xabi Alonso alongside the destroyer Mascherano at Liverpool. Benitez ended the season playing 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard as the ACM because he didn't trust a box-to-box CM like Gerrard in a 4-4-2.

However, ultimately I suspect the type of CM who plays alongside a Modric depends on the overall make-up of the team, and the coach's philosophy. At Sevilla, when Ramos play with attacking FBs and wide midfielders in a 4-4-2, he needed an out-and-out holding DM like Poulsen who's intelligent enough to cover when teammates are out-of-position.

None of those examples are even close though. Gerarrd, Keita and Fabregas all get up and down the pitch and could easily play as box to box players. Infact, they all do. Modric, Deco, Scholes (when he was an AM) and Diego never could, hence they have to have that engergetic box to box player alongside them.

I think there is a bid distincition between the likes of little nimble creative players such as Deco, Modric and Diego to all round midfield players like Gerarrd and Fabregas etc. The like of Giberto and Alonso aren't very athletic themselves.

 

[yanno]

None of those examples are even close though. Gerarrd, Keita and Fabregas all get up and down the pitch and could easily play as box to box players. Infact, they all do. Modric, Deco, Scholes (when he was an AM) and Diego never could, hence they have to have that engergetic box to box player alongside them.

Joey - you and I have discussed Sevilla in the past and agreed that whilst Keita made more forward runs than Maresca, their CM pairing was essentially flat. Keita can play box-to-box, but he didn't for Sevilla.

The reason Benitez played Mascherano alongside Xabi Alonso, with Gerrard as an ACM, is so that Stevie G could roam and play box-to-box. Benitez, going back to his Valencia days where the passer Baraja would play alongside the destroyer Albelda, does not like box-to-box CMs in a 4-4-2. This is why Gerrard has played wide so often for Liverpool.

Fabregas does get forward, but I see a lot of similarity between his game and Modric's.

So, I think the three examples I provided are valid.

 

[joey55]

Joey - you and I have discussed Sevilla in the past and agreed that whilst Keita made more forward runs than Maresca, their CM pairing was essentially flat. Keita can play box-to-box, but he didn't for Sevilla.

The reason Benitez played Mascherano alongside Xabi Alonso, with Gerrard as an ACM, is so that Stevie G could roam and play box-to-box. Benitez, going back to his Valencia days where the passer Baraja would play alongside the destroyer Albelda, does not like box-to-box CMs in a 4-4-2. This is why Gerrard has played wide so often for Liverpool.

Fabregas does get forward, but I see a lot of similarity between his game and Modric's.

So, I think the three examples I provided are valid.

But the likes of Keita, Gerard and Fabregas will get up and down the pitch, as you say. Whilst the Deco's etc won't. Surely if you are going to play an unphysical attack minded midfielder, you have to have box to box energy alongside him. None of the examples you provide do that. The examples of Albelda and Baraja, or poulsen and Maresca aren't that relevant as they are just a different way of playing 442. I can't imagine for a moment Ramos has a role like that in mind for Modric. I'd be equally as surprised if Ramos played Modric in a 442 with a holding player.

 

[yanno]

But the likes of Keita, Gerard and Fabregas will get up and down the pitch, as you say. Whilst the Deco's etc won't. Surely if you are going to play an unphysical attack minded midfielder, you have to have box to box energy alongside him. None of the examples you provide do that. The examples of Albelda and Baraja, or poulsen and Maresca aren't that relevant as they are just a different way of playing 442. I can't imagine for a moment Ramos has a role like that in mind for Modric. I'd be equally as surprised if Ramos played Modric in a 442 with a holding player.

Until we know the make-up of our squad come the start of next season this is all academic. However, our FBs are likely to be very attack-minded (Hutton, Gunter, Bale, Gilberto), and Ramos is known for using the flanks to attack at speed which means there has to be some protection in the centre.

Ramos is a far more attacking coach than Benitez - but Rafa has played that kind of 4-4-2, with a passer next to a destroyer, for years so it does count as an example.

I also don't think we can entirely dismiss the examples of a 4-4-2 featuring Poulsen alongside Maresca or Keita as that Sevilla side was coached by Senor Ramos.