John Bostock

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Gotta love England. If you don't make it by the time you're 18 then you're on the scrapheap.

 

[StartingPrice]

Gotta love England. If you don't make it by the time you're 18 then you're on the scrapheap.

This is so true...and not just in football:roll:

 

[double0]

Times on his side, bostock has good abilities and is still one for the future.

 

[matjcole]

It poses the question about others like Parrett as well. Huge hype, actually looked pretty good in Uefa, but not really cut it on loan.

 

[dontcallme]

Am I alone in coming to the conclusion that a youth system is a waste of money to us?

I mean seriously how many players start at us from a very young age and make an impact in our first team?

If we had a squad of twenty players plus around 6 very talented youngsters to be constantly involved I'd be happy. No 16 or 17 year olds unless they are like Owen or Rooney when they were that age.

Just buy players who've made a good impact at professional level already.

I'm sure our wage bill and coaching fees etc for a youth setup costs a lot and so few make it. Players like Bostock, Taarabt etc would benefit a lot form playing for lower league sides while in their teens and then we can buy them once they've proved their worth.

Premiership teams having youth setups simply isn't producing as they get so little game time and many promising careers are stunted.

I know we have an obsession with youth in this country but I can't help feeling that the current system is not benefitting the top clubs or the players themselves.

 

[double0]

I still feel THFC has a responsibility to football in general. There should always be hope for these young players even if they don't make the grade, at least THFC has helped develop footballers.

 

[dontcallme]

I still feel THFC has a responsibility to football in general. There should always be hope for these young players even if they don't make the grade, at least THFC has helped develop footballers.

Who and how many?

Can we honestly say that we have a better success rate of producing good players and giving them good careers than the Championship clubs that play them and most importantly genuinely need them and give them better attention?

 

[StartingPrice]

Am I alone in coming to the conclusion that a youth system is a waste of money to us?

I mean seriously how many players start at us from a very young age and make an impact in our first team?

If we had a squad of twenty players plus around 6 very talented youngsters to be constantly involved I'd be happy. No 16 or 17 year olds unless they are like Owen or Rooney when they were that age.

Just buy players who've made a good impact at professional level already.

I'm sure our wage bill and coaching fees etc for a youth setup costs a lot and so few make it. Players like Bostock, Taarabt etc would benefit a lot form playing for lower league sides while in their teens and then we can buy them once they've proved their worth.

Premiership teams having youth setups simply isn't producing as they get so little game time and many promising careers are stunted.

I know we have an obsession with youth in this country but I can't help feeling that the current system is not benefitting the top clubs or the players themselves.

TBH I believe that Dan Levy reached the same conclusion, which is why he has made a revamped one a cornerstone of his strategy. He has spent a lot of time and money on it, and it is only in a year or two that we will even begin to see whether he has been successful.

 

[PT]

The fruits of the youth system tree bare rare yield.

 

[JonnySpurs]

I'm gonna continue to hold out some hope for John Bostock. The kid has clear ability and I don't really care that he hasn't done much on loan.

Andros Townsend played for us in the cup and looked excellent but has been dumped back here from Watford after it didn't work out. That doesn't suddenly make him rubbish.

The other issue comes with what his best position is. I don't think he has the steel to be a true CM in england, but he drifts inside too much to be a winger. I'd argue that he's more of an in the hole number 10, a bit like VDV, problem is, what manager in the championship is gonna play him there?

Sometimes players just don't fit at the clubs they join, even on loan, in fact Jamie O'Hara didn't do a massive amount in the lower leagues either and yet he went to Pompey later on and ran the show and has become a proven Prem player.

Quite honestly Brentford and Hull are not the kind of footballing teams that I'd wanna see Bostock play for. If he was at QPR, Leeds or Reading right now I'd bet he do some good things, simply cos their ethos is more similar to how it is at Spurs.

 

[SlickMongoose]

The youth system can't cost that much, if we sell O'Hara for a few million, or one of the current crop is good enough for the 1st team (cough Caulker cough) it will surely have paid for itself.

 

[WhiteStripe]

One word. ATTITUDE.

A lot of extremely talented potential world beaters simply won't make the grade in the modern day. Why? They simply don't have the drive and determination to prove to everyone around them that they have what it takes. They see a loan as a step down, they view themselves as a big fish in a little pond just because they are owned by a big club. I'm not necessarily saying this is why Bostock is where he is, but generally speaking, the players who make it have the attitude to go with the talent. Coaching these players mentalities is just as important as coaching their skills.

A loan, or even a stint in a reserve team needs to be used as an opportunity to prove these kids have the maturity to step up to the plate and prove their worth, not get complacent and become static in their development.

 

[Teofilo-Stevenson]

Hmmm, looks like a certain Mr. Jordan had a point ;-)

 

[SlickMongoose]

Hmmm, looks like a certain Mr. Jordan had a point ;-)

On that point i'd say it was fairly unquestionable. Swapping a regular bench spot at a championship clubfor a youth team spot at a top premiership club, where competition will be higher, was a really bad idea from a footballing perspective.

 

[Samson]

Hmmm, looks like a certain Mr. Jordan had a point ;-)

Wasn't his point that CP deserved more money? As it stands, the 700k we paid them looks bloody generous. :wink:

More seriously, Bostock won't be the last kid poached who fails to live up to expectations. Where's Merida at Arsenal these days? It's why you poach them- a proven one costs 10 million.

 

[dontcallme]

One word. ATTITUDE.

A lot of extremely talented potential world beaters simply won't make the grade in the modern day. Why? They simply don't have the drive and determination to prove to everyone around them that they have what it takes. They see a loan as a step down, they view themselves as a big fish in a little pond just because they are owned by a big club. I'm not necessarily saying this is why Bostock is where he is, but generally speaking, the players who make it have the attitude to go with the talent. Coaching these players mentalities is just as important as coaching their skills.

A loan, or even a stint in a reserve team needs to be used as an opportunity to prove these kids have the maturity to step up to the plate and prove their worth, not get complacent and become static in their development.

This is a good point. If a sixteen year old kid has always been the best player throughout his school years and then a major club like ourselves or man Utd want him what kind of character are you likely to get? A very arrogant one who believes he is something special before his time.

Put him at a Championship club or lower and have him play against men and realise he still has a lot of work to do and you might get yourself a stronger character who can learn to hack it when the going gets tough.

On an individual basis you can argue that we got Lennon for one million whereas if we bought him a few years later his price would be inflated. But in reality so few of these poached players make it and it is costing our club money and it isn't producing enough.

Once we became a solid top six club we should have started to phase out a mass youth policy.

 

[SlickMongoose]

On an individual basis you can argue that we got Lennon for one million whereas if we bought him a few years later his price would be inflated. But in reality so few of these poached players make it and it is costing our club money and it isn't producing enough.

How much have we spent on poached youngsters? And how much is Lennon/O'Hara worth?

I'd say it's paid for itself many times over?

 

[danielneeds]

Once we became a solid top six club we should have started to phase out a mass youth policy.

What rubbish. Arsenal, Chelsea, and United still poach kids from all over the place - most of those never make it into their first teams either. It is worth the gamble though because only one class kid can make you a £25m transfer fee.

 

[matjcole]

What rubbish. Arsenal, Chelsea, and United still poach kids from all over the place - most of those never make it into their first teams either. It is worth the gamble though because only one class kid can make you a £25m transfer fee.

Or £35m if he's hairy.

 

[dontcallme]

How much have we spent on poached youngsters? And how much is Lennon/O'Hara worth?

I'd say it's paid for itself many times over?

But if we bought someone like Lennon now how much playing time would he get? Dawson, Huddlestone and Lennon all had huge amounts of playing time while we were a mid-table team pushing for top six. They've improved enough to be a part of our team now.

If they joined now I'm as youngsters I'm not sure we'd be able to give them enough playing time to get to the level they're at right now.