'Malky Mackay to blame' insists owner Vincent Tan

[SpurSince57]

I don't really see the big deal it's his private messages

Really? Seriously?

Ron Atkinson's 'Lazy n****r' comment was a private aside that got recorded. Did you think that was OK, merely because he'd never have said it in public? At least Atkinson was brought up in an era when racist language was the norm, and perfectly acceptable; Mackay's only 42, and has no such excuse.

 

[SteveH]

Much ado about nothing, yet again.

Slow night for SSN

 

[Mandy Dingle]

What he said was obviously disgusting, no one will deny that, but I always feel uncomfortable when people get chastised for things they've said in private, if he actually believed what he said then that's his choice, we all know he's wrong and the best we can do is try to educate, to ruin the guys life for a few dumb texts is far too much punishment.

I also found the SSN interview a disgrace, journalism these days is abysmal, with everything Sky has been doing these days it almost makes me want to unsubscribe.

 

[SpurSince57]

I suspect the whole industry is still awash with them to be honest. It's just normally too much of a 'closed shop' for us to ever hear about it. It takes an odd maverick like Tan to open up the can of worms.

And I think you can see how widespread those views are by the sheer number of football people who have been defending him for his views - Harry's in particular, complete with weak attempts at moral relativity: "he's not a murderer...", makes that awful 'Spiderwoman' cover look positively like a good idea in comparison than speaking up on this occasion.

I do wonder what else people expect, though. You're talking, by and large, of people who came from a working-class background, left school at 15 with a very basic education, and grew up in a society in which racism was endemic—FFS, 'The Black and White Minstrel Show' had huge audiences, and was shown on BBC until 1978! (Check it out on YouTube.)

I don't think Harry's defending Mackay's views, more saying politely that he's been a total dick, but catch on to yourself, Harry; no, he hasn't murdered or raped anyone, but that's hardly the point, is it?

As I said in a previous post, though, Mackay doesn't even have the excuse that Harry's (and my) generation has. He was born in 1972 and thus raised in a society where the kind of sentiments he's expressed were totally out of order by the time he was 20.

 

[SpurSince57]

What he said was obviously disgusting, no one will deny that, but I always feel uncomfortable when people get chastised for things they've said in private, if he actually believed what he said then that's his choice, we all know he's wrong and the best we can do is try to educate, to ruin the guys life for a few dumb texts is far too much punishment.

We must presume he did believe it, and sure it's his choice. You make your choice, you live with the consequences.

He's ruined his own life.

*EDIT* One must assume that 'RustySpider' is a Malky fan and feels these utterances are perfectly acceptable. Each to his own.

 

[karennina]

"Fuck off mate" - if words can convey the diametric opposite to their literal meaning, affection as opposed to rejection in that example, then i don't see why we have to take seriously the people screeching that this particular form of words just is racist etc. Fuck the old school chauvinists, but fuck off even more the "social justice" parasites who are language policing just to make themselves feel real rather than because of any real care for disadvantaged groups.

 

[Shadydan]

"Fuck off mate" - if words can convey the diametric opposite to their literal meaning, affection as opposed to rejection in that example, then i don't see why we have to take seriously the people screeching that this particular form of words just is racist etc. Fuck the old school chauvinists, but fuck off even more the "social justice" parasites who are language policing just to make themselves feel real rather than because of any real care for disadvantaged groups.

Eh?

 

[Spurger King]

"Fuck off mate" - if words can convey the diametric opposite to their literal meaning, affection as opposed to rejection in that example, then i don't see why we have to take seriously the people screeching that this particular form of words just is racist etc. Fuck the old school chauvinists, but fuck off even more the "social justice" parasites who are language policing just to make themselves feel real rather than because of any real care for disadvantaged groups.

There will be some 'social parasites' capitalising on this, but ultimately I think a lot of people will be genuinely shocked by the deep-set nature of his backwards remarks. I think this is of those times when the social parasites will actually do a lot of good by drawing attention to just how primitive and moronic this knuckle dragger's comments truly are.

 

[karennina]

There will be some 'social parasites' capitalising on this, but ultimately I think a lot of people will be genuinely shocked by the deep-set nature of his backwards remarks. I think this is of those times when the social parasites will actually do a lot of good by drawing attention to just how primitive and moronic this knuckle dragger's comments truly are.

Well... There's this interesting bit where Louis CK, Chris Rock, Gervais and Seinfeld talk about 'Nigger' as a term in comedy. About 16 minutes in to that link. I'm like Seinfeld, I can't say 'Nigger' in an Un-Racist way. I'm not un-racist enough; it will always be in scare quotes for me.

But Louis CK has found a way. On international television. I don't put it past Malky Mackay to have found a way, in this much more luxuriantly inflected domain of private meanings, shared with staff he sees every day, to have said the reported words without reinforcing a truly racist climate.

How "deep set" are these remarks of his really? How deeply does he mean them? And what does he mean by them anyway?

 

[Spurger King]

Well... There's this interesting bit where Louis CK, Chris Rock, Gervais and Seinfeld talk about 'Nigger' as a term in comedy. About 16 minutes in to that link. I'm like Seinfeld, I can't say 'Nigger' in an Un-Racist way. I'm not un-racist enough; it will always be in scare quotes for me.

But Louis CK has found a way. On international television. I don't put it past Malky Mackay to have found a way, in this much more luxuriantly inflected domain of private meanings, shared with staff he sees every day, to have said the reported words without reinforcing a truly racist climate.

How "deep set" are these remarks of his really? How deeply does he mean them? And what does he mean by them anyway?

I do get what you're getting at, but let's say we give Mackay the benefit of the doubt and say that he's appropriating the clichéd nature of these insults in an ironic way, playing up to particular stereotypes on the part of football managers, gender, race, and culture...at what point does intention become blurred with reception? How far does such normalising within a nominally closed circuit of communication become a perpetuation of accepted prejudice?

I do tend to agree with a lot of your posts Karennina, but in this case I think you're wrong. This kind of language ripples out well beyond its original intent (which I happen to believe was negative to begin with), and quickly becomes accepted by others as "just a bit of banter" ("but seriously though...those niggers, gays, fake-titted women, and all the Johnny Foreigners...").

Unless Mackay is a psychological mastermind, I doubt he could have accurately predicted how those comments would have been interpreted. Therefore he's spreading idiotic views on society....fuck him.

 

[onthetwo]

1. just watched the Mackay interview on the BBC; hard for me to figure out who's thicker, him or the people at the LMA. This excuse that "it was only 3 our of 10k texts" staggers me - does he/they think that everyone sends a few racist/homophobic/anti-semitic every now and again when we're under any kind of pressure? Unbelieveable...

**EDIT: id also like some contribution to the discussion from RustySpider other than negative rep for a few of us. Anything to say Rusty?"

 

[Spurs 1961]

1. just watched the Mackay interview on the BBC; hard for me to figure out who's thicker, him or the people at the LMA. This excuse that "it was only 3 our of 10k texts" staggers me - does he/they think that everyone sends a few racist/homophobic/anti-semitic every now and again when we're under any kind of pressure? Unbelieveable...

As this rolls on it seems there is so much more to find. Tan was derided for getting rid of Malky, I think we all thought this was a really bad decision. Of course now it turns out that investigations around fraud were taking place internally which as a by product came up with other information that the club were duty bound to pass onto the FA and not go public about. Later of course Malky dropped his legal action claiming alll was sweetness and light and that Tan had done a great job at Cardiff...we can perhaps see why now as he tried to keep all under wraps.

The football hierarchy, fossils the lot of them, and the whole culture of football in the UK it pretty rotten. Maybe someone who is vilified for being a foreigner and weird..including by some of the posters on this site...is the ideal person to lift the lid off a little. Will this radically change things? Will Sepp Blatter ever step down? No football is insular, dirty and corrupt at it's core and I guess things will only get worse with the huge sums of monies and vested interests at play.

 

[teok]

I always find it interesting when people try and defend themselves being racist/bigoted/what ever that they say they made a "mistake".

This implies that they think every one is racist and they just keep a lid on it and the mistake is getting "caught".

 

[vonn]

https://vine.co/v/MLe7hnpXhUH

 

[dontcallme]

Like many I work in a multi-cultural office. If my manager made similar comments or jokes about potential new employees like Malkay made about the incoming South Korean I wouldn't be impressed.

If someone wants to make jokes in their own home or in the pub then as long as you're not abusing someone then who cares? But Malkay was stupid at best to send these texts to people within the club.

 

[dontcallme]

Well... There's this interesting bit where Louis CK, Chris Rock, Gervais and Seinfeld talk about 'Nigger' as a term in comedy. About 16 minutes in to that link. I'm like Seinfeld, I can't say 'Nigger' in an Un-Racist way. I'm not un-racist enough; it will always be in scare quotes for me.

But Louis CK has found a way. On international television. I don't put it past Malky Mackay to have found a way, in this much more luxuriantly inflected domain of private meanings, shared with staff he sees every day, to have said the reported words without reinforcing a truly racist climate.

How "deep set" are these remarks of his really? How deeply does he mean them? And what does he mean by them anyway?

All well and good. If Mackay wants to become a comedian and be controversial then go be a comedian.

If the Spurs manager was making jokes about Jews or making racist jokes about incoming players I'd want him fired.

 

[SpurSince57]

Well... There's this interesting bit where Louis CK, Chris Rock, Gervais and Seinfeld talk about 'Nigger' as a term in comedy. About 16 minutes in to that link. I'm like Seinfeld, I can't say 'Nigger' in an Un-Racist way. I'm not un-racist enough; it will always be in scare quotes for me.

But Louis CK has found a way. On international television. I don't put it past Malky Mackay to have found a way, in this much more luxuriantly inflected domain of private meanings, shared with staff he sees every day, to have said the reported words without reinforcing a truly racist climate.

How "deep set" are these remarks of his really? How deeply does he mean them? And what does he mean by them anyway?

Pretentious? Moi?

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Personally I don't say those things even in private...

I don't really see the difference between a public racist and a private racist to be honest.

 

[nailsy]

Like many I work in a multi-cultural office. If my manager made similar comments or jokes about potential new employees like Malkay made about the incoming South Korean I wouldn't be impressed.

If someone wants to make jokes in their own home or in the pub then as long as you're not abusing someone then who cares? But Malkay was stupid at best to send these texts to people within the club.

I think the big problem for him was that some of the abuse was about his boss.

As serious as these allegations are I get the impression that the big stuff is still to come and that there could be a criminal case against certain people surrounding missing money from some of the transfer deals that they were involved in.