Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[easley91]

This youth discussion.. we talking Spurs academy players or young players in general (22 and younger let's say)?

He has only been here a hot minute but will play YOUNG players if he deems them ready. You can't judge him on not playing Spurs academy players yet, because he needs to instil his ethos etc. That's not to say there won't be a pathway. They've been given places on the bench. Donley has come on a couple of times now. At least they are involved in travelling squads and training with seniors on a daily basis.

 

[taidgh]

Some of you go so overboard. The way we set up we were always due a slapping at some point. When you factor in major injuries and suspensions to key positions and general fatigue of the players, playing against a opposition who press and attack aggressively, it's not a huge surprise we lost.

This was always going to be a season that is a bit of a 'free hit' in terms of Ange building the squad and imparting his philosophy. We have already seen the level we're capable of with a fully fit squad so I really don't see the need for micro-analysis of this loss. There will be more losses of the same nature for the remainder of the season. We just got to trust the process.

Some here expect us to win every game. So when we lose it's finger pointing and second-guessing from couch pundits.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Be interesting to see who he turns to on Sunday! Emerson and Davies should not be paired together.

I'd put Emerson at right back and play Dier, Dorrington or Phillips next to Davies.

Without Romero I wouldn't trust Porro

 

[BorjeSpurs]

I'd put Emerson at right back and play Dier, Dorrington or Phillips next to Davies.

Without Romero I wouldn't trust Porro

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Some here expect us to win every game. So when we lose it's finger pointing and second-guessing from couch pundits.

Quick, close the thread, shut down the internet, alert every pub landlord around the world. Fans in talking shit shocker after losing a game of football!

 

[Nayim60yards]

And in the interim we've dropped 15 points from 15 in matches where neither VdV nor Romero have been available

We got a 3-3 at the Etihad with Royal and Davies at CB. I believe we got a point for that.

 

[Trix]

Which is mainly why im so chilled about things right now.
My only concern is Ange can't do this, Levy has to do this.

This is the big question though isn't it. It's ok to want to believe this is a project and that we will keep improving window on window, but we all know how much of a difference our league position means to future windows both financially and from an attraction pov.

Daniel can bleat on about 'Spurs DNA' till the cows come home, but it's results and finances that motivate him above all else and patience has never been his strongest point.

In the plus 20 years he's been here there have been a number of times when we've needed a calm head and to push the boat out financially because whilst we are having issues we can all see we aren't too far off, and every time he's looked at results winced at the cost, and gone the other way.

We all want things to be different with Ange but history suggests unless he can keep us improving in spite of the difficulties he will not get the tools to get the full squad he deserves.

 

[Japhet]

After the flak Levy was getting at the ground last season he really would have to be monumentally stupid to not back Ange after what we've seen from him. I don't think Levy is that stupid. He has this window to prove me wrong. He's stumped up a ton of money recently and we have players being shoved towards the exit door too.

 

[allatsea]

This is the big question though isn't it. It's ok to want to believe this is a project and that we will keep improving window on window, but we all know how much of a difference our league position means to future windows both financially and from an attraction pov.

Daniel can bleat on about 'Spurs DNA' till the cows come home, but it's results and finances that motivate him above all else and patience has never been his strongest point.

In the plus 20 years he's been here there have been a number of times when we've needed a calm head and to push the boat out financially because whilst we are having issues we can all see we aren't too far off, and every time he's looked at results winced at the cost, and gone the other way.

We all want things to be different with Ange but history suggests unless he can keep us improving in spite of the difficulties he will not get the tools to get the full squad he deserves.

Levy understands numbers but, unfortunately, does not have the vision to invest for the future as far as the footballing side of the club is concerned. Any footballing/squad investment has to be backed up by good figures financially. Worse still, IMO, he has stacked the Board with like minded people.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

There isn't but you have to trust the opinion of a Premier League manager with 25 years coaching experience who sees them every day over a bunch of people on the internet who have barely seen these lads play.

Sometimes you get beaten for a lot of the reasons @rossdapep outlined. Some combination of options sitting on the bench aren't always going to change the result.

​

Celtic fans also talk about the fact that he really didn't use the youth team.

Some managers (klopp, pep, poch, de zerbi, even ten hag) like to utilise their academy a lot.

Other managers (Jose, Conte etc) will only use youth as a last resort, and really value experience over everything else.

Now if the experienced route was working, I'd have no complaints.

But with VDV and Romero out, we have conceded more goals than any other team in the Premier League.

Relying on the senior players (Emerson, Dier) clearly isn't working out.

We currently have the best youth teams we've had in (possibly) decades.

The concern is that if you're a young CB at this club, and there is no senior CBs in the squad at all, and the players who are playing are conceding more goals than any other team in the league. The fact that you still can't get a chance surely suggests that you should move for the sake of your career.

This could also start turning the heads of other young players like Mikey Moore (who looks like a true wunderkind), who have no shortage of admirers.

Kids who failed to get an appearance at Celtic are now at Liverpool, utd, and city.

If we don't give this group of young players a chance, someone else will.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I think the thing is that you do appear to be one who's straight and criticising him, like straight in and it feels like often, without any real consideration to the overall situation.

When you look at the fit and available options he had available to him last night, there really wasn't much else he could do.
I know that you're beating the "throw the youth in" drum but I'm not convinced that won't do more harm than good.
Nobody is above being criticised but sometimes it feels somewhat relentless and ignoring the full picture because the bloke is trying to work with the bare bones of the squad and let's be honest, he's probably still trying to gauge some of them.

I love the bloke honestly, but at times I just find that he could do a tiny bit more to just accept a point etc as those add up towards the end of the season.

also when you can see something is happening change it.

only reason I am banging the youth drum is you’ve got to find out if they are good enough at some point we know what we get with Emerson and Dier so just give them a shot if it doesn’t work I don’t think anyone would be mad at him, it’s brave

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This is the big question though isn't it. It's ok to want to believe this is a project and that we will keep improving window on window, but we all know how much of a difference our league position means to future windows both financially and from an attraction pov.

Daniel can bleat on about 'Spurs DNA' till the cows come home, but it's results and finances that motivate him above all else and patience has never been his strongest point.

In the plus 20 years he's been here there have been a number of times when we've needed a calm head and to push the boat out financially because whilst we are having issues we can all see we aren't too far off, and every time he's looked at results winced at the cost, and gone the other way.

We all want things to be different with Ange but history suggests unless he can keep us improving in spite of the difficulties he will not get the tools to get the full squad he deserves.

Ange got most of what he wanted this summer apart from the CB, with Ange’s realistic sensible approach to transfers and Lange coming in and the stadium up and running for a few seasons now I don’t see why we won’t strengthen in Jan and Summer and look significantly stronger next season giving Ange a far more robust squad.

 

[Silky Skills]

It's difficult, if Ange has started Dorrington or Phillips against Brighton and we were trailing 4-0 would everyone have been saying they were not ready and Ange has now dented their confidence? There is no right answer, Brighton have bloodied teenagers this season but I would argue are tracking behind where they were last season but like us they have a huge number of injuries; Pep and Kloop blood youngster but alongside world class players (or more than we have)

 

[Styopa]

It's difficult, if Ange has started Dorrington or Phillips against Brighton and we were trailing 4-0 would everyone have been saying they were not ready and Ange has now dented their confidence? There is no right answer, Brighton have bloodied teenagers this season but I would argue are tracking behind where they were last season but like us they have a huge number of injuries; Pep and Kloop blood youngster but alongside world class players (or more than we have)

Yeah people talk about Brighton blooding youngsters but they’re six points behind us, even after defeating us the other night. And they finished above us last season. They drew two (v Burnley and Palace) and lost one (v Arsenal) in their run-up of PL matches before playing us. It’s not like they’ve been blowing teams away or even winning regularly.

 

[FrankSpencer]

It's difficult, if Ange has started Dorrington or Phillips against Brighton and we were trailing 4-0 would everyone have been saying they were not ready and Ange has now dented their confidence? There is no right answer, Brighton have bloodied teenagers this season but I would argue are tracking behind where they were last season but like us they have a huge number of injuries; Pep and Kloop blood youngster but alongside world class players (or more than we have)

Brighton had 33 points after 19 games last season, this season they sit at 30 points.

Tottenham had 33 points after 19 games last season, this season we sit at 36 points.

The big difference this season is we don’t have a runaway leader, last season we were 14 points behind Arsenal after 19 games!

 

[Stavrogin]

I love the bloke honestly, but at times I just find that he could do a tiny bit more to just accept a point etc as those add up towards the end of the season.

also when you can see something is happening change it.

only reason I am banging the youth drum is you’ve got to find out if they are good enough at some point we know what we get with Emerson and Dier so just give them a shot if it doesn’t work I don’t think anyone would be mad at him, it’s brave

The problem here is that people have already decided that Davies, Dier and Royal are bad and/or unable to play in the way we need.

Which is fair enough but it's probably also the case that Postecoglou hasn't come to that conclusion yet.

He's spoken a lot about giving players time to adapt and letting them make mistakes. Perhaps the speed with which most of the squad adapted to our new style has warped the perception somewhat. Remember how bad Royal was and how he showed massive improvement? Similarly Davies has adapted well to different roles with different managers.

What i'm saying is this: You think Dorrington and Phillips are fresh and delightful. You think Davies and Royal are stale and depressing. But they are all in the same process at the moment and Postecoglou hasn't really had much time or many matches to see what can be achieved - Plus, the few matches we have had have hardly been uniformly awful.

It is philosophically interesting. On the one hand we appeared to acknowledge that this was a reset and we needed time. But on the other, all our accumulated experience means we have far less tolerance for perceived errors and have a more sophisticated and rigourous apparatus of criticism for what we are seeing.

 

[TOLBINY]

This is the big question though isn't it. It's ok to want to believe this is a project and that we will keep improving window on window, but we all know how much of a difference our league position means to future windows both financially and from an attraction pov.

Daniel can bleat on about 'Spurs DNA' till the cows come home, but it's results and finances that motivate him above all else and patience has never been his strongest point.

In the plus 20 years he's been here there have been a number of times when we've needed a calm head and to push the boat out financially because whilst we are having issues we can all see we aren't too far off, and every time he's looked at results winced at the cost, and gone the other way.

We all want things to be different with Ange but history suggests unless he can keep us improving in spite of the difficulties he will not get the tools to get the full squad he deserves.

The main reason I was in favour of Conte - he had an inferior squad to the one we have now, yet he got us and kept us 4th - and he did tell us all we need time & patience - most likely because we are not the type of club who can / will spend 500M in two transfer windows.

As a fan base we must recognise this and allow our manager to build his own squad over 30+ months. There are a couple of things about Ange (in game management and the spaces left in our defence by the inverted full backs) that I am not sure about, but I am sure he has not had sufficient time or transfer windows to prove himself one way or another.

 

[Gb160]

This is the big question though isn't it. It's ok to want to believe this is a project and that we will keep improving window on window, but we all know how much of a difference our league position means to future windows both financially and from an attraction pov.

Daniel can bleat on about 'Spurs DNA' till the cows come home, but it's results and finances that motivate him above all else and patience has never been his strongest point.

In the plus 20 years he's been here there have been a number of times when we've needed a calm head and to push the boat out financially because whilst we are having issues we can all see we aren't too far off, and every time he's looked at results winced at the cost, and gone the other way.

We all want things to be different with Ange but history suggests unless he can keep us improving in spite of the difficulties he will not get the tools to get the full squad he deserves.

Yeah this is why my expectations are tempered slightly. To win things in this League requires heavy investment. With Enic getting CL is as far as they’re prepared to invest.
Regardless of investment at least we’re a lot more fun to watch under Ange.

 

[dontcallme]

we really ought to treat the Bournemouth game as a nothing to lose situation.

play Philips or Dorrington as RCB.

Play a 6 who can actually show for and play the ball. As crazy as it is I think I would play GLC there. At least he can receive and move the ball and at least he’s fresh.

See what happens. Give Donley a shot at the 10.

Nothing to lose? We're 5th in the league. There's loads to play for.

 

[Styopa]

Nothing to lose? We're 5th in the league. There's loads to play for.

Just 3 points behind third placed Aston Villa, and just six points behind leaders Liverpool who play a day later than us. We can move within three or four points of the top of the league with a win tomorrow.

I’m not saying I think we’ll win the league, but the idea we have nothing to lose at home to Bournemouth is absurd.

We had a bad night the other night, but it’s hardly time to start writing off our season as if we have nothing left to play for.