Paul Mitchell Joins Tottenham

[mpickard2087]

I agree that none of this looks good for Baldini and we should get rid. But I'd also suggest we need to have a structure in place that reports to Poch, rather than 'above' Poch. Baldini and his position are increasingly indefensible.

I don't know if I agree with that, Poch is employed as the head coach and should fit the structure and be a good fit in terms of style of play, operating along the same lines as the club ideals (young players, use of academy etc). Then when he inevitably leaves the structure is still in place to cope with a change of manager and there are plans in place to identify the correct next choice. See Swansea and Southampton as clubs who do this well.

The problem is that we don't have the structure in place, and seem to tear things up and start again depending on who the manager is. We had AVB choosing the DOF for example, which shouldn't be the case!

A competent DOF who will look after the whole club and we get away from the idea that all they do is buy players would be a start.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Because there's no consistency.

Ergo, my money would be on another "Re-structure" within the next 18months - 2 years and then being back to square 1

This may or may not be true, but I don't see how this appointment can be a bad thing in itself. It's an attempt to improve the playing staff, and a step in the right direction.

More steps are no doubt needed, but that doesn't make step this wrong.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We are adding to our scouting department - how is this a bad thing?

This.

Some of you need to get laid more. You're just moaining for the sake of it.

Seems to me Levy gets bashed for wasting money on the wrong players, but when he then tries to make a positive move to stop this happening in the future, he also gets a torrent of abuse. The guy can't win!

 

[E17yid]

This may or may not be true, but I don't see how this appointment can be a bad thing in itself. It's an attempt to improve the playing staff, and a step in the right direction.

More steps are no doubt needed, but that doesn't make step this wrong.

I have no idea if it's going to be a good thing or not, but I'd put my money on history repeating itself tbh.

Poch says players are shit (even though we hired him to work with and improve our current lot)

Poch says he needs new scouts

Levy gives him scout he worked with at Saints

Levy sacks Poch

Levy hires new manager

New manager thinks Mitchell is shit.

Levy is the only one who can stop this BS cycle

 

[E17yid]

This.

Some of you need to get laid more. You're just moaining for the sake of it.

Seems to me Levy gets bashed for wasting money on the wrong players, but when he then tries to make a positive move to stop this happening in the future, he also gets a torrent of abuse. The guy can't win!

Fair point, in theory

However, it'll all come down to how much Levy backs Poch, won't it?

People are reading way to much into this Mithcell signing as it's meant to be a given now that Levy is backing him. Why else would he get this guy in, right?

Fact is, if results continue to go bad DL will sack him then this will all be for nothing.

 

[jolsnogross]

See, this just highlights why we need to give Poch time, and why we probably shoudl have given AVB more time, though, I am not entirely sure he did nto walk as much as he was sacked.

We need to build a club identity - and that identity needs to permeate the entire club - particularly the academy, so that we have players in the club who are focused on the same philosophy. Once we have that philosophy in place, finding players, and promoting players will be much easier. Its just not as simple as snapping your fingers though. There must be long-term planning that goes into this, and we must not waiver in the face of adversity. Thats going to be tough on the fans, but in the long-run it will pay off immensely.

It wont pay off "immensely" if you've picked the wrong "philosophy". We already have an identity as an attacking footballing side with a bit of flair. That doesn't need changing, it needs strengthening.

I think there are organizational things that Spurs need to resolve very quickly so that we make the best use of our facilities and standing in the game. There's a structure we could and should have to produce a better pipeline of young players. And the current state of the club is an indictment of those at the top.

But we wont put up with more than a season of dross, let alone 4 or 5 and that's just the reality of it. We've sacked a manager who produced a team of players (within one cycle of team building) that were competitive at the very top of the league and finished 4th twice. It is rightly in the minds of directors and fans that if we did it once, we can do so again.

So we have to get both the club structure and the first team right as soon as possible, and we'll expect the first team to improve in the near future, while the background set-up should yield results in the medium and long term. It'll be a bit naive of anyone, Poch especially, if he thinks an "immense philosophy" approach to the under-18s is going to keep him in a job while the first team stinks.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

The worrying thing might be his strong links to MK.....


Oooooh conspiracy..

 

[jolsnogross]

That's the point, they won't struggle to carry on so much without him-because he has done a good job in bringing player analysis, research and recruitment uptogther in a modern, well run structure. The fact that they can replace him is a testament to what he has helped build.

Fair enough - you're saying Mitchell was the creator of the system though - that it didn't exist before they hired him. In that case, he's got some credentials, as long as it's true. I was under the impression that they were already well structured before 2012.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Fair enough - you're saying Mitchell was the creator of the system though - that it didn't exist before they hired him. In that case, he's got some credentials, as long as it's true. I was under the impression that they were already well structured before 2012.

I'm not saying he is solely responsible for the creation of everything good that has happened or been put in place at Southampton, but he has been an important cog in bringing everything together in the last couple of years. That's my understanding anyway.

 

[jolsnogross]

I don't know if I agree with that, Poch is employed as the head coach and should fit the structure and be a good fit in terms of style of play, operating along the same lines as the club ideals (young players, use of academy etc). Then when he inevitably leaves the structure is still in place to cope with a change of manager and there are plans in place to identify the correct next choice. See Swansea and Southampton as clubs who do this well.

The problem is that we don't have the structure in place, and seem to tear things up and start again depending on who the manager is. We had AVB choosing the DOF for example, which shouldn't be the case!

A competent DOF who will look after the whole club and we get away from the idea that all they do is buy players would be a start.

This is the dilemma Levy has created. You present the theory, and we have data that it can fail as well. Levy backed DoF Comolli and when that went downhill with Ramos, he ripped it up and gave Harry autonomy. That worked well.

Now we are at a similar crossroads. The consensus appears to be that Poch cannot work with this group, a group compiled by DoF Baldini with previous managers (and Poch in the last window). I can't see how we should continue to back the judgement of DoF Baldini if we rip up the squad and discard the big outlay of two summers ago. And if htat happens, we would basically hire another DoF above Poch to implement the DoF's approach rather htan Poch's.

The DoF approach is not as fool-proof as Levy and its adherents think. It still comes down to judgement. And the West Brom DoF said it very eloquently - if head coaches only get one year, DoF's only get two.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

It wont pay off "immensely" if you've picked the wrong "philosophy". We already have an identity as an attacking footballing side with a bit of flair. That doesn't need changing, it needs strengthening.

I think there are organizational things that Spurs need to resolve very quickly so that we make the best use of our facilities and standing in the game. There's a structure we could and should have to produce a better pipeline of young players. And the current state of the club is an indictment of those at the top.

But we wont put up with more than a season of dross, let alone 4 or 5 and that's just the reality of it. We've sacked a manager who produced a team of players (within one cycle of team building) that were competitive at the very top of the league and finished 4th twice. It is rightly in the minds of directors and fans that if we did it once, we can do so again.

So we have to get both the club structure and the first team right as soon as possible, and we'll expect the first team to improve in the near future, while the background set-up should yield results in the medium and long term. It'll be a bit naive of anyone, Poch especially, if he thinks an "immense philosophy" approach to the under-18s is going to keep him in a job while the first team stinks.

Thats just it - there is no "wrong" philosophy. Only the wrong players playing that philosophy. You can win in this league with any number of philosophies/tactics, as long as you have a club full of players who are committed to that philosophy/tactic. The first team "stinks" right now, because we have an incredibly unbalanced squad, with too few players capable of committing to the high-line, pressing style that the manager is going to implement.

And, seriously, you need to let Harry go. He left a long time ago, and he isn't coming back. Holding onto those ghosts is not healthy.

The key to long-term success is finding a philosophy that can be repeated. Harry's "run around abit" was really on successful when combined with world-class players - and we can't rely on having world class players every year. We can rely on having hard working players who are committed to an organized style of play - where players can be plugged in at will - preferably as many from the academy who have been drilled on each positions roles and responsibilities, as from outside the club.

Levy committed to this philosophy when he hired Pochettino. He will see it through - at least until the end of next season.

 

[E17yid]

Thats just it - there is no "wrong" philosophy. Only the wrong players playing that philosophy. You can win in this league with any number of philosophies/tactics, as long as you have a club full of players who are committed to that philosophy/tactic. The first team "stinks" right now, because we have an incredibly unbalanced squad, with too few players capable of committing to the high-line, pressing style that the manager is going to implement.

And, seriously, you need to let Harry go. He left a long time ago, and he isn't coming back. Holding onto those ghosts is not healthy.

The key to long-term success is finding a philosophy that can be repeated. Harry's "run around abit" was really on successful when combined with world-class players - and we can't rely on having world class players every year. We can rely on having hard working players who are committed to an organized style of play - where players can be plugged in at will - preferably as many from the academy who have been drilled on each positions roles and responsibilities, as from outside the club.

Levy committed to this philosophy when he hired Pochettino. He will see it through - at least until the end of next season.

Or, he can do what Mourinho does and tailor his philosophy to meet the needs of the current playing staff. Rather than trying to jam square pegs into round holes

 

[mpickard2087]

This is the dilemma Levy has created. You present the theory, and we have data that it can fail as well. Levy backed DoF Comolli and when that went downhill with Ramos, he ripped it up and gave Harry autonomy. That worked well.

Now we are at a similar crossroads. The consensus appears to be that Poch cannot work with this group, a group compiled by DoF Baldini with previous managers (and Poch in the last window). I can't see how we should continue to back the judgement of DoF Baldini if we rip up the squad and discard the big outlay of two summers ago. And if htat happens, we would basically hire another DoF above Poch to implement the DoF's approach rather htan Poch's.

The DoF approach is not as fool-proof as Levy and its adherents think. It still comes down to judgement. And the West Brom DoF said it very eloquently - if head coaches only get one year, DoF's only get two.

The squad is poorly balanced and needs (substantial) change, however I'd argue that you don't just give carte blanche to the Head Coach to make whatever change he feels like. I think you hold your nerve and stick with the structure and have the Coach as one cog rather than suddenly dictating everything.

I agree Baldini should go, he is responsible for overseeing the entire football side of things and I don't think he is up to the job. However it is Levy/the board that needs to be getting its own house in order, sitting down and agreeing to a plan as to how they want the football club to run, what the aims are, and how we go about it. Not to be dictated to by the Head Coach.

First thing I'd suggest is an experienced 'Technical Director' to replace Baldini's role. They focus over the next few years getting the structure and footballing side of things as good as they can be. Make sure the academy keeps up its progress and develop a clear pathway to the senior team, hire and develop the best coaches, rebuild the scouting network, build on this apparent appointment of Mitchell and beef up the recruitment/analysis dept. to go with the initial scouting of players, demand that the Sports Science/Medical teams we have at the club are the best around... And I could go on, all this without mentioning transfers.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Or, he can do what Mourinho does and tailor his philosophy to meet the needs of the current playing staff. Rather than trying to jam square pegs into round holes

If only we had their transfer budget....

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Or, he can do what Mourinho does and tailor his philosophy to meet the needs of the current playing staff. Rather than trying to jam square pegs into round holes

And, I don't think Poch wants to jam square pegs into round holes, I think he wants to toss the square pegs, and get round pegs. Surely that makes sense, no?

 

[ethanedwards]

Thats just it - there is no "wrong" philosophy. Only the wrong players playing that philosophy. You can win in this league with any number of philosophies/tactics, as long as you have a club full of players who are committed to that philosophy/tactic. The first team "stinks" right now, because we have an incredibly unbalanced squad, with too few players capable of committing to the high-line, pressing style that the manager is going to implement.

And, seriously, you need to let Harry go. He left a long time ago, and he isn't coming back. Holding onto those ghosts is not healthy.

The key to long-term success is finding a philosophy that can be repeated. Harry's "run around abit" was really on successful when combined with world-class players - and we can't rely on having world class players every year. We can rely on having hard working players who are committed to an organized style of play - where players can be plugged in at will - preferably as many from the academy who have been drilled on each positions roles and responsibilities, as from outside the club.

Levy committed to this philosophy when he hired Pochettino. He will see it through - at least until the end of next season.

Disagree, this so called football philosophy of Poch the high press etc is unsustainable over a season, especiallyin the PL.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Disagree, this so called football philosophy of Poch the high press etc is unsustainable over a season, especiallyin the PL.

Atletico disagree.

When you can't afford the very best, you have to attack things a bit differently - and zig, where others zag.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ed-Southamptons-head-of-recruitment-away.html

Link to telegraph article that does a nice job talking about what Mitchell brings to the table. There is a thread in teh News section, but I thought it was relevant here (assuming it has not already been linked)

 

[SteveH]

Disagree, this so called football philosophy of Poch the high press etc is unsustainable over a season, especiallyin the PL.

Atletico disagree.

When you can't afford the very best, you have to attack things a bit differently - and zig, where others zag.

You're both on the right line - only time will tell. High press is a no no and Poch s going try zig and zag IMHO.

 

[E17yid]

And, I don't think Poch wants to jam square pegs into round holes, I think he wants to toss the square pegs, and get round pegs. Surely that makes sense, no?

It does, for the long term, but it doesn't do much good for the short term.

Ultimately, it's the short term that will decide his fate. Carry on with this level of performances then he'll be gone, simple as that.