Player watch: Josh Onomah

[taricco]

What an absolute waste of time. 1. Villa don’t play football. 2. He isn’t played in position. 3. He doesn’t seem to be starting at the moment.

Terrible youth management in my opinion.

 

[beats1]

What an absolute waste of time. 1. Villa don’t play football. 2. He isn’t played in position. 3. He doesn’t seem to be starting at the moment.

Terrible youth management in my opinion.

Totally agree, Poch and our academy isnt working together imo

Whilst I think our way was better before poch came in and developed less talented players and made them reach their potential whilst now the talent is better but the development process is worse.

However that old system it seems had a youth coaching staff that suited it, whereas now we are a mess of the two different ways. I personally think let Poch clear out the staff and let him have free reign over the academy and start again

 

[EQP]

Totally agree, Poch and our academy isnt working together imo

Whilst I think our way was better before poch came in and developed less talented players and made them reach their potential whilst now the talent is better but the development process is worse.

However that old system it seems had a youth coaching staff that suited it, whereas now we are a mess of the two different ways. I personally think let Poch clear out the staff and let him have free reign over the academy and start again

No. The issue isn't producing players, the issue is Poch isn't willing to introduce or blood in younger players at this time. He recently came out stating that players need to be 8/10 for them to break into the 1st team. He clearly doesn't trust the younger players in our ranks at this time.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

No. The issue isn't producing players, the issue is Poch isn't willing to introduce or blood in younger players at this time. He recently came out stating that players need to be 8/10 for them to break into the 1st team. He clearly doesn't trust the younger players in our ranks at this time.

Disagree.. Onomah had opportunities to state his claim but didn’t take it. Can’t blame Poch for this.

 

[EQP]

Disagree.. Onomah had opportunities to state his claim but didn’t take it. Can’t blame Poch for this.

Really? So you're telling me Poch played Josh in his preferred role of CM several times and Josh failed to impress?

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

It can't be all the managers fault that Josh isn't played in his preferred position, surely both Poch & Bruce aren't pushing an agenda against Josh and there must be some part of his game that's missing as he hasn't earned the trust to play in CM (no matter how many times I get told about him playing CM in a world cup winning side. Youth & Senior football is night and day as you can tell by the rugby scores in a lot of our youth games)...I have read in here in recent days that we should sell Dembele & put Josh in as his replacement...I am not being funny but if you are struggling to get in your preferred position in the Championship I doubt you are ready to be a starter for a top 6 club in the champions league ( I know we can use Kane as an example but honestly he is the exception not the rule), I think expectations need to be tempered a bit, hopefully he comes back in the Summer with a bit more experience to his name and gets his chance to show what he can do pre season in CM.

 

[coys200]

In reality going into new stadium we need a top draw proven CM with Dembele on decline. I think the simple facts are there are still question marks over Winks. We just cant rely on 2 young CM going into new stadium however much promise they both have. You do have to say Winks has taken his opportunity better than Onomah , so much so he got a senior call up. I said before I think from here there will be some very tough calls made on our youth. I fear Onomah May be the first to feel the backlash of our progression. Sadly he could well be one we might live to regret. I think it will be another loan for him next season or will be sold. It’s gonna be brutal on the kids going forward. However much potential someone has at some point they have to step up. Unfortunately for Onomah in 40 spurs appearances and half a season on loan he hasn’t.

 

[Danny1]

It can't be all the managers fault that Josh isn't played in his preferred position, surely both Poch & Bruce aren't pushing an agenda against Josh and there must be some part of his game that's missing as he hasn't earned the trust to play in CM (no matter how many times I get told about him playing CM in a world cup winning side. Youth & Senior football is night and day as you can tell by the rugby scores in a lot of our youth games)...I have read in here in recent days that we should sell Dembele & put Josh in as his replacement...I am not being funny but if you are struggling to get in your preferred position in the Championship I doubt you are ready to be a starter for a top 6 club in the champions league ( I know we can use Kane as an example but honestly he is the exception not the rule), I think expectations need to be tempered a bit, hopefully he comes back in the Summer with a bit more experience to his name and gets his chance to show what he can do pre season in CM.

I came here to say something very similar. Josh looks a quality young midfielder but there is clearly something missing in his game. When he is played in CM he looks classy, but he lacks tenacity and often loses his man in the middle (which I've seen lead to goals for the other teams).

Until he starts to mature as a player I dont see him in a Spurs shirt, especially in CM. We have to remember that having players come through the academy is great and we would all love a team full of them. However we are a club that has ambitions of being one of the best & biggest in England and that means having the best players, we cannot afford to carry anyone, let alone in CM (arguably the most important position).

 

[Lilbaz]

Josh not doing well on loan is not the end of the world. He will need to learn from it and hopefully improve.

 

[archiewasking]

No. The issue isn't producing players, the issue is Poch isn't willing to introduce or blood in younger players at this time. He recently came out stating that players need to be 8/10 for them to break into the 1st team. He clearly doesn't trust the younger players in our ranks at this time.

What does Poch have against 9 year olds?

 

[ardiles]

If he's not coming back until the summer, at least loan him out to another club that would make better use of him in a position where he is strong at and familiar with.

 

[Yido1989]

No. The issue isn't producing players, the issue is Poch isn't willing to introduce or blood in younger players at this time. He recently came out stating that players need to be 8/10 for them to break into the 1st team. He clearly doesn't trust the younger players in our ranks at this time.

Poch only said that because the level of our team has improved since he’s arrived, youngsters have to be extra special, He knows he has to loan players out now and see how it goes.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It can't be all the managers fault that Josh isn't played in his preferred position, surely both Poch & Bruce aren't pushing an agenda against Josh and there must be some part of his game that's missing as he hasn't earned the trust to play in CM (no matter how many times I get told about him playing CM in a world cup winning side. Youth & Senior football is night and day as you can tell by the rugby scores in a lot of our youth games)...I have read in here in recent days that we should sell Dembele & put Josh in as his replacement...I am not being funny but if you are struggling to get in your preferred position in the Championship I doubt you are ready to be a starter for a top 6 club in the champions league ( I know we can use Kane as an example but honestly he is the exception not the rule), I think expectations need to be tempered a bit, hopefully he comes back in the Summer with a bit more experience to his name and gets his chance to show what he can do pre season in CM.

Harry Kane struggled to get games up front for Leicester and Norwich during his loan spells. Kane isn't really an exception at all, in France, Spain or Germany (or the rest of the world) he's pretty much the norm, young players aren't expected to come into the side and be 100% proficient world beaters from the get go, there's an understanding that they will take time to find their best form, just like the majority of purchased players do.

Look at Sissoko, barely deemed good enough to start in his first season, and even now there are still huge facets "missing" from his game, but he's being given lots of game time. The same can be said for Dier (who lots of people have issues with as a CM and a CB and certainly wasn't a great RB when he started), Alli (whose work off the ball was awful for the first 18 months and work with it still leaves lots tp be desired) Lamela, Eriksen, Son, Janssen etc all took time to settle, and some still aren't fully.

What PL managers have is a mental block where the most talented kids are concerned. Part of that is pressure of the environment and fear that losing half a dozen games will get you fired. But in our case, our chairman has repeatedly stated he wants a manager that integrates, and he has an outstanding relationship with Pochettino, I don't believe if Pochettino said "look. we've got this kid whose extremely talented but needs to settle in, this may effect results short term, but in the long term could be phenomenal for the club, I don't think he's going to get sacked. Levy loves him. Levy also understands better than anyone the huge financial benefits when home grown players even partially succeed (Townsend, Livermore, Pritchard etc all made good money).

And the bottom line is, if we can accommodate payers like Sissoko in CM, then surely we can accommodate a player like Onomah, even when he's learning, it shouldn't be any more fatal, as long as the other 10 around him are all at it as they should be.

I came here to say something very similar. Josh looks a quality young midfielder but there is clearly something missing in his game. When he is played in CM he looks classy, but he lacks tenacity and often loses his man in the middle (which I've seen lead to goals for the other teams).

Until he starts to mature as a player I dont see him in a Spurs shirt, especially in CM. We have to remember that having players come through the academy is great and we would all love a team full of them. However we are a club that has ambitions of being one of the best & biggest in England and that means having the best players, we cannot afford to carry anyone, let alone in CM (arguably the most important position).

But it's chicken and egg. You need experience to mature. We are not a club that can ever buy world class players as the finished product. We have to compromise, and if we can carry very raw purchased players through acclimatisation and maturing then we have to accept we can do the same for the very best - and only the very best - academy players.

 

[EQP]

I came here to say something very similar. Josh looks a quality young midfielder but there is clearly something missing in his game. When he is played in CM he looks classy, but he lacks tenacity and often loses his man in the middle (which I've seen lead to goals for the other teams).

Until he starts to mature as a player I dont see him in a Spurs shirt, especially in CM. We have to remember that having players come through the academy is great and we would all love a team full of them. However we are a club that has ambitions of being one of the best & biggest in England and that means having the best players, we cannot afford to carry anyone, let alone in CM (arguably the most important position).

But he isn't going to improve as CM if he never plays as a CM. He's being played as a AM & CF, he then struggles to impact the game from those positions and then coaches and fans use those same performances as justification for why he's not mature enough to play as a CM. Which in turn starts to erode at his confidence because he's being played out of position and not given the chance to thrive in as a CM and make mistakes as a CM.

 

[EQP]

It can't be all the managers fault that Josh isn't played in his preferred position, surely both Poch & Bruce aren't pushing an agenda against Josh and there must be some part of his game that's missing as he hasn't earned the trust to play in CM (no matter how many times I get told about him playing CM in a world cup winning side. Youth & Senior football is night and day as you can tell by the rugby scores in a lot of our youth games)...I have read in here in recent days that we should sell Dembele & put Josh in as his replacement...I am not being funny but if you are struggling to get in your preferred position in the Championship I doubt you are ready to be a starter for a top 6 club in the champions league ( I know we can use Kane as an example but honestly he is the exception not the rule), I think expectations need to be tempered a bit, hopefully he comes back in the Summer with a bit more experience to his name and gets his chance to show what he can do pre season in CM.

But he isn't going to improve as CM if he never plays as a CM. He's being played as a AM & CF, he then struggles to impact the game from those positions and then coaches and fans use those same performances as justification for why he's not mature enough to play as a CM. Which in turn starts to erode at his confidence because he's being played out of position and not given the chance to thrive in as a CM and make mistakes as a CM.

 

[IGSpur]

Disagree.. Onomah had opportunities to state his claim but didn’t take it. Can’t blame Poch for this.

Lamela didn't exactly stake his claim in his first season and he had a lot more minutes but was given more opportunities thereafter, same with Sissoko. Why is an academy player with no experience expected to do more in less minutes than 2 internationals. In fact how is an academy player expected to do more, by that logic he would be an international level player. How do you bring someone through if you're expecting more from them than you are internationals.?

(no matter how many times I get told about him playing CM in a world cup winning side. Youth & Senior football is night and day as you can tell by the rugby scores in a lot of our youth games)

I was going to quote an article about Malcom and post in the youth forum but the managers says, he played in a Corinthians u17 match v their u20s and looked good. He then performed well in the big youth South American tournament and at the conclusion the manager decided he was going to put him straight into the first team and start playing him. Straight from youth football into the first team, as they saw how good he was. You can judge ability based on eye. But what do Brazil know about producing and developing talent.

I'm sure someone will comment about the strength of the league, but it really doesn't matter when we're talking about the potential ability of players coming through. You surely find a way to develop them rather than just making excuses.

In England we can win every international competition under the sun, and the PL managers will blame all the players for not being good enough and the fans will agree and think nothing of it.

 

[smallsnc]

Just came on for the final 15 minutes or so today. Playing as the right sided AM in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3, hard to tell exact formation.

 

[Khilari]

But he isn't going to improve as CM if he never plays as a CM. He's being played as a AM & CF, he then struggles to impact the game from those positions and then coaches and fans use those same performances as justification for why he's not mature enough to play as a CM. Which in turn starts to erode at his confidence because he's being played out of position and not given the chance to thrive in as a CM and make mistakes as a CM.

But certain aspects of being a CM he will improve on whilst playing in different positions. Maturity, taking responsibility, grafting hard, the emotional aspects of being in a team that struggles, adapting to different styles of play, getting kicked about more in the Championship, traveling to Preston, Barnsley and Burton and other small footballing sides with crap facilities and hostile atmospheres...

"Playing CM" in a team like Villa may not have a huge amount of similarity as "playing CM" at Spurs, with completely different styles of play, perhaps different responsibilities and different partners in midfield that dramatically can alter your role.

You make a valid point, but I'm not sure we can agree a Loan move to a club in a relatively competitive league and dictate to the manager where he should play. He certainly started there but hasn't really impressed.

 

[smallsnc]

Just came on for the final 15 minutes or so today. Playing as the right sided AM in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3, hard to tell exact formation.

Ok, outing for about 18 minutes including stoppage time. Good on the ball but he did not once, even when moved out to the left, get past a good jog. Could have joined an attack at one time but just jogged up behind the play. There just seems to be either a lack of awareness defensively or him being lazy as he had a couple of times when he should have been closer to a man but was just basically within 4 yards of a teammate and was just marking space.

I think there is a good footballer in there but he does not seem, right now, to be playing with any sort of urgency or real desire.

 

[paulcumpstone]

Looked very tidy on the ball and used it well but considering he was fresh he really didnt show any urgency off the ball.looked very uninterested tbh