Player Watch: Moussa Sissoko

[EQP]

Brilliant, If he's playing to strict instructions then forget blaming him, it's Poch that need to be binned. What a load of shite

Who picks the team? Sissoko has no say in if he starts. The team,fuck it, THE WORLD knows that he's a limited player and yet he-still-plays. Whose fault is that?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Agreed. They (Poch, Jesus, Miki and Toni) pick the teams and set the instructions for all the players and he unfortunately gets all the hate but is really doing what the coaching staff ask of him. Moving forward every post about Sissoko should honestly read " We've established that Sissoko is not very good but why does Poch keep picking him?"

I've been suggesting that KWP, a technically gifted and versatile player, could do better than Sissoko. KWP is intelligent, fantastic dribbler and is young enough for Poch to mold into his image. I'm shocked that the coaching staff haven't tried to better integrate KWP into the team by playing him as a RM/AM/CM, as his skillset would be invaluable in either one of those positions. This I believe is the true travesty, the lack of creativity that Poch has shown with the young players at his disposal.

I suggested exactly the same about KWP in the Youth thread a couple of months ago, for all the same reasons, he's technically very good, doesn't panic in tight spaces, is tenacious, dynamic and hard working without the ball. I really believe he could perform a remit as a CM either in the 2 or 3 systems we've been using.

And I completely agree about the Sissoko/Poch thing, and again, said exactly this in my ratings yesterday. It is not Sissoko that deserves the criticism here, it is very much Poch, who - according to ITK - insisted we sign him, not only picks him despite him being inferior to many other options available, isn't even using him in the best tactical application that Sissoko is seen most effective in, which has always been as a WF/WAM in a 433/4231 in a counter attacking structure (even then he's never been high quality - just that's how he's been most effectively applied).

 

[Phomesy]

No, what I am arguing is that, even if your interpretation of Poch's tactical application of Sissoko is correct, it's a poor tactical application, a remit he doesn't fulfil well and it's also counter intuitive.

I'd probably tend towards agreeing with you but then I'm not privy to the data; video; and detailed in-game planning that the Coaches put into this kind of thing.

What I do know is that Poch had Winks and Wanyama on the bench last night. And he's picked Sissoko over others in other games as well, so our injuries in CM do not account solely for his selections.

So they see something else in his value. I can only assume its his very adherence to his instructions. They absolutely know what they're going to get from him, I guess. And I also guess that with this trust they can then ask more from our front 4, and attacking defenders.

What I don't get though is you say you agree he isn't very good, and wouldn't be your choice either, so you pretty much agree with what I'm saying, no? So what exactly is your counter argument, that you think he's good at the remit he's given ?

Yes, like I've always said I tend to agree with you that I've only ever seen Sissoko's value when he's free to run at midfields like he's done to us in the past and does for France. But Poch and the coaches have trained that out of him and turned him into something else.

My point is they have done this. For their reasons. And with their track record I have to place my trust in them and I think others probably should do as well as opposed to acting like spoilt babies throwing their toys out of the pram and calling Sissoko all sorts. It's silly, ignorant and deeply unhelpful. In fact it hurts the team when the crowd turns on someone who is just doing what he's told.

Here's another point: Sissoko played fine last night. He did his job. He passes back and sideways because he's been ordered too. And I guess Poch would point to the fact that West Ham had zero attacking threat apart from their one worldy, so he'd argue he got it right but we didn't get the breaks you'd expect of the domination we had.

More of an issue is that Poch seems to think Dier is a more progressive passer of the ball than he is. But again - that's hardly Sissoko's fault is it?

 

[yankspurs]

I'd probably tend towards agreeing with you but then I'm not privy to the data; video; and detailed in-game planning that the Coaches put into this kind of thing.

What I do know is that Poch had Winks and Wanyama on the bench last night. And he's picked Sissoko over others in other games as well, so our injuries in CM do not account solely for his selections.

So they see something else in his value. I can only assume its his very adherence to his instructions. They absolutely know what they're going to get from him, I guess. And I also guess that with this trust they can then ask more from our front 4, and attacking defenders.





Yes, like I've always said I tend to agree with you that I've only ever seen Sissoko's value when he's free to run at midfields like he's done to us in the past and does for France. But Poch and the coaches have trained that out of him and turned him into something else.

My point is they have done this. For their reasons. And with their track record I have to place my trust in them and I think others probably should do as well as opposed to acting like spoilt babies throwing their toys out of the pram and calling Sissoko all sorts. It's silly, ignorant and deeply unhelpful. In fact it hurts the team when the crowd turns on someone who is just doing what he's told.

Here's another point: Sissoko played fine last night. He did his job. He passes back and sideways because he's been ordered too. And I guess Poch would point to the fact that West Ham had zero attacking threat apart from their one worldy, so he'd argue he got it right but we didn't get the breaks you'd expect of the domination we had.

More of an issue is that Poch seems to think Dier is a more progressive passer of the ball than he is. But again - that's hardly Sissoko's fault is it?

If Poch thinks a defensive fucking midfielder/center back is to be the more progressive passer in a CM 2 between him and an AM, then he really is hopeless.

 

[Phomesy]

If Poch thinks a defensive fucking midfielder/center back is to be the more progressive passer in a CM 2 between him and an AM, then he really is hopeless.

So... Sack Poch?

You really do behave like a massive crybaby sometimes, Yank. But then if you really do think Poch is a mug then maybe you should start a campaign to get rid?

NB: And that's not to say Poch can't be criticised - of course he can. But calling him "hopeless" given our points tally in the last three seasons, would suggest he's not../

 

[yankspurs]

So... Sack Poch?

You really do behave like a massive crybaby sometimes, Yank. But then if you really do think Poch is a mug then maybe you should start a campaign to get rid?

No dont sack him. He's a great manager and hes been great for us. But as great as he is, he has limitations. There is a difference(and a decidedly massive one, at that) between criticism and wanting him gone.

 

[Phomesy]

No dont sack him. He's a great manager and hes been great for us. But as great as he is, he has limitations. There is a difference between criticism and wanting him gone.

Aye - probably a massive stubborn prick as well. But not, say "hopeless"?

 

[bat-chain]

As much as people are roasting Sissoko, I feel more that players that can offer better quality like Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son are the reason we failed yesterday.

Sissoko played as he usually does whereas some of the above were beneath their usual level.

 

[yankspurs]

As much as people are roasting Sissoko, I feel more that players that can offer better quality like Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son are the reason we failed yesterday.

Sissoko played as he usually does whereas some of the above were beneath their usual level.

Well his level is far below the standard we are used to from the others you named. The problem is, we were practically playing with 10 men for 70 minutes yesterday. As usual, Poch waited entirely too long to make changes. Just so happens that this one was obviously needed from the first minute.

 

[kaz Hirai]

As much as people are roasting Sissoko, I feel more that players that can offer better quality like Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son are the reason we failed yesterday.

Sissoko played as he usually does whereas some of the above were beneath their usual level.

Sissoko is the go to stress ball though when we screw up

Dier was terribly dire but like sissoko i place no blame at his feet. He's limited to what he is capable of. And what those 2 players are good at was totally useless against that team last night...and many teams we play this season who have zero ambition to play and just hope for a 0-0 or lucky goal against the run.

Harry Kane had a off night, Dele and erisken who should be our dbruyne/Silva offered not much more than sissoko safe passing .

It's amusing how the sissoko thread has a bunch more posts venting but dembele, winks and more importantly lamela were wasting away on the bench for 75 mins while our midfield trifecta of safe passing moved the ball from left to right .

I don't know what Poch was waiting for. He should have sussed out gollum's game plan after 25 minutes. So frustrating to watch that last night.
It wasn't exactly a tactical masterclass from West ham.

 

[The Apprentice]

Did someone above seriously suggest Sissoko’s performance was fine?

I give up.

 

[Phomesy]

Did someone above seriously suggest Sissoko’s performance was fine?

I give up.

Then you may as well start a Poch out campaign.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Then you may as well start a Poch out campaign.

If he keeps picking Sissoko and Dier in a CM2, we won't have to.

 

[thecook]

Who picks the team? Sissoko has no say in if he starts. The team,fuck it, THE WORLD knows that he's a limited player and yet he-still-plays. Whose fault is that?

My point was merely that if he is being sent out there to play within some kind of 'limitations', as is suggested, and thereby hamstringing the rest of the team then something is wrong with the way the team is managed. He's obiously not being told this, as this is just foolish. He's just shit.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

The Dier / Sissoko pairing the other night was flawed from minute one. In hindsight Poch should have addressed this at half time and removed Sissoko for Lamela / Winks. He didn't for what ever reason. If Poch had a Zaha or a Mayrez type on the bench the other night, I'm sure he'd have made the change.earlier. Our lack of creative options from the bench to be called upon when we need a different strategy is my biggest concern

 

[JayB]

The Dier / Sissoko pairing the other night was flawed from minute one. In hindsight Poch should have addressed this at half time and removed Sissoko for Lamela / Winks. He didn't for what ever reason. If Poch had a Zaha or a Mayrez type on the bench the other night, I'm sure he'd have made the change.earlier. Our lack of creative options from the bench to be called upon when we need a different strategy is my biggest concern

Lamela, when fit, has been one of the leading chance creators in the entire league.

I agree that we could do with another attacking player in the squad, but the reason Poch sat on his hands doing nothing for 75 minutes the other night was not because he was bereft of options, it was because he's stubborn to a fault.

 

[The Apprentice]

Then you may as well start a Poch out campaign.

Not really mate. Is he above being questioned?

You seem to have an inside knowledge of the inner workings of the tactics room, so would love you to share your wisdom.

 

[Phomesy]

Not really mate. Is he above being questioned?

You seem to have an inside knowledge of the inner workings of the tactics room, so would love you to share your wisdom.

No mate - I just see the team selection and watch the games and put two and two together.

Sissoko is clearly being asked to play limited and defined role. He played that role fine on Thursday night.

Just because you don't like the role (I don't particularly either btw) doesn't mean he played badly on Thursday. He didn't. The system and set up led to an almost complete dominance allowing us to play pretty much in their half for the entire game and try and score by overwhelming numbers and attrition. The defensive side of it worked (apart from a worldy screamer of a goal) - and that's clearly Sissoko's remit.

I know it's annoying that he only seems to pass sideways and backwards but seeing as its pretty much all he ever does when playing that role in that system yet he keeps being selected - then Occam's razor suggests that he playing to instruction. And playing it to the Coach's acceptance.

So, yes he played fine on Thursday night. You are angry at the role not the performance.

But if you can't see that by now, there's not much point going over it again and again.

 

[Johnny J]

No mate - I just see the team selection and watch the games and put two and two together.

Sissoko is clearly being asked to play limited and defined role. He played that role fine on Thursday night.

Just because you don't like the role (I don't particularly either btw) doesn't mean he played badly on Thursday. He didn't. The system and set up led to an almost complete dominance allowing us to play pretty much in their half for the entire game and try and score by overwhelming numbers and attrition. The defensive side of it worked (apart from a worldy screamer of a goal) - and that's clearly Sissoko's remit.

I know it's annoying that he only seems to pass sideways and backwards but seeing as its pretty much all he ever does when playing that role in that system yet he keeps being selected - then Occam's razor suggests that he playing to instruction. And playing it to the Coach's acceptance.

So, yes he played fine on Thursday night. You are angry at the role not the performance.

But if you can't see that by now, there's not much point going over it again and again.

I largely agree with you but surely Poch wouldn't actually, literally tell him to not pass it forwards? He might say "keep it simple". Maybe I'm wrong.

If you're right, then that's a bit worrying. Two defensively minded (or instructed) CMs is creating a disconnect between our midfield and forward line. We so need a Modric or Isco type player to link the two.

 

[The Apprentice]

No mate - I just see the team selection and watch the games and put two and two together.

Sissoko is clearly being asked to play limited and defined role. He played that role fine on Thursday night.

Just because you don't like the role (I don't particularly either btw) doesn't mean he played badly on Thursday. He didn't. The system and set up led to an almost complete dominance allowing us to play pretty much in their half for the entire game and try and score by overwhelming numbers and attrition. The defensive side of it worked (apart from a worldy screamer of a goal) - and that's clearly Sissoko's remit.

I know it's annoying that he only seems to pass sideways and backwards but seeing as its pretty much all he ever does when playing that role in that system yet he keeps being selected - then Occam's razor suggests that he playing to instruction. And playing it to the Coach's acceptance.

So, yes he played fine on Thursday night. You are angry at the role not the performance.

But if you can't see that by now, there's not much point going over it again and again.

Nope, I’m disappointed (not angry, it’s only a game) in his performance also. His movement, his passing, his application. It was woeful and he did play badly. Are your standards really that low, that you can give credit for turning up?

I agree with the disappointment in role. If Poch is picking someone to play as a CM2 and specifically asking him to hide from the ball, get rid of it ASAP when he gets it and to occupy space, then yes Poch should be questioned about the logic of the decision. The total dominance argument doesn’t wash as any combination of any of our midfielders would have resulted in the same dominance. West Ham turned up to sit back and we possess considerably more talented players (we’ve seen the same game at least five times this season at wembley.) Picking Sissoko as a CM2 was not a catalyst for the performance.

None of which detracts from the fact Sissoko’s individual performance was not “fine”. He applied himself poorly. He created zilch, he created West Ham’s best two chances of the first half, his positioning was a factor in our lack of cutting edge, he contributed to the goal with his half hearted closing down and his passing was erratic. If that’s a fine performance for you, then I guess our differences are around standards of play and how we judge them.