Player Watch: Ryan Mason

[DaSpurs]

Why is Mason being absolved from responsibility in the goal and other incidents.

First watch the build up to Benteke hitting the bar (12m54). Mason stands and watches as the play develops on the left hand side and can see NZogbia in front of him but just gently jogs instead of sprinting to get himself onto him, eventually reacts and but not in time to get a proper tackle and the ball ends up to their guy down the flank who crosses to an unmarked Benteke.

Same for the goal. Mason leaves one guy and watches as Weiman sprints past him, but doesn't sprint to stay with him just carries on jogging. Capoue actually picks him and covers the run, only for the cross to squirm it's way through to Weiman.

We need a CM who can contribute something offensively, and join in attacks, but they need to have the stamina and discipline (and intelligence) to make it work with a CM2 role, and, equally importantly, the rest of the team need to know how to cover this when it happens. A full back or AM needs to know to drop back or at least cover the space left behind or have the potential to and be thinking about it.

What we get is either no-one is prepared to make the forward run because they know they'll have to sprint back again, or they do go forward but can't be arsed to sprint back again and/or no-one else thinks "right, he's gone forward, I'm going to take responsibility and drop back into the space left behind".


This problem has been endemic. Just watching that first few minutes again, there is a typical incident on 12.33. Vertonghen gives a loose pass out to our left flank which is picked up by their player, Rose backs off because he sees Chadli is closer, but Chadli just stands off for no explicable reason and allows their player to advance until he whips in a cross. Rose gestures to Chadli as if to say "close him down ffs".

I'm sorry man, I tremendously respect your opinion but in those two instances those seem to be very subjective viewpoints.

On the Benteke opportunity, there wasn't a single other mark in the box, while both CB's and Capoue were there in the box. Mason has to pass that off as there has to be an option available to transition away due to a) the corresponding high likelihood that we'd win the ball vs Benteke capitalizing and b) there were no other options available because Capoue was in the box. On the goal, Mason left Weimann a full 10-12 yards out from the corner of the box, while Capoue stayed with him and then left him in the box. Capoue is the No 6, the CDM, he can't allow runners into the box unmarked on a cross. That is just essential. It isn't Mason's job to follow that runner from that far out and directly into the path of Capoue, as then you just have our own players running directly into each in the box, and you have no shape whatsoever to emerge upon winning possession.

I like Capoue too man, but he is not doing his job of late. The idea of himself as a box to box mid flat out has to go, because when he decides in his mind that he's going to be the CDM he actually does a solid job. But he did not do that yesterday, just as he hasn't done lately at all. He is letting runners go rampant, not getting to tackles well enough, and not even winning a high enough percentage of the balls when he gets there, and I think a lot of this is due to him being so constantly out of position. I cannot fathom why Poch has allowed this to persist. To me either he does his damn job or someone gets put in who will. But these instances are simply not on Mason's head, as it's not at all his responsibility to prevent those plays.

 

[allpaths]

Why is Mason being absolved from responsibility in the goal and other incidents.

First watch the build up to Benteke hitting the bar (12m54). Mason stands and watches as the play develops on the left hand side and can see NZogbia in front of him but just gently jogs instead of sprinting to get himself onto him, eventually reacts and but not in time to get a proper tackle and the ball ends up to their guy down the flank who crosses to an unmarked Benteke.

Same for the goal. Mason leaves one guy and watches as Weiman sprints past him, but doesn't sprint to stay with him just carries on jogging. Capoue actually picks him and covers the run, only for the cross to squirm it's way through to Weiman.

We need a CM who can contribute something offensively, and join in attacks, but they need to have the stamina and discipline (and intelligence) to make it work with a CM2 role, and, equally importantly, the rest of the team need to know how to cover this when it happens. A full back or AM needs to know to drop back or at least cover the space left behind or have the potential to and be thinking about it.

What we get is either no-one is prepared to make the forward run because they know they'll have to sprint back again, or they do go forward but can't be arsed to sprint back again and/or no-one else thinks "right, he's gone forward, I'm going to take responsibility and drop back into the space left behind".


This problem has been endemic. Just watching that first few minutes again, there is a typical incident on 12.33. Vertonghen gives a loose pass out to our left flank which is picked up by their player, Rose backs off because he sees Chadli is closer, but Chadli just stands off for no explicable reason and allows their player to advance until he whips in a cross. Rose gestures to Chadli as if to say "close him down ffs".

You r expecting way to much from mason, u want him to make runs it to the box, constiently show to recieve the ball, press and play as well defensively as a dm u r nuts. Ryan does an excellent job defnsively for being a creative cm he gets stuck in an i see him covering his fullback all the time. capoue has to be a lot better and every benteke chance was comes down to poor marking from kaboul, vertonghen and capoue

 

[worcestersauce]

Reminds me more of Lampard, not as a person or a decent member of the human race you understand but as a player.
Still a while off being sure of his ability and how much he will improve but absolutely no doubt about his attitude whatsoever.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I'm sorry man, I tremendously respect your opinion but in those two instances those seem to be very subjective viewpoints.

On the Benteke opportunity, there wasn't a single other mark in the box, while both CB's and Capoue were there in the box. Mason has to pass that off as there has to be an option available to transition away due to a) the corresponding high likelihood that we'd win the ball vs Benteke capitalizing and b) there were no other options available because Capoue was in the box. On the goal, Mason left Weimann a full 10-12 yards out from the corner of the box, while Capoue stayed with him and then left him in the box. Capoue is the No 6, the CDM, he can't allow runners into the box unmarked on a cross. That is just essential. It isn't Mason's job to follow that runner from that far out and directly into the path of Capoue, as then you just have our own players running directly into each in the box, and you have no shape whatsoever to emerge upon winning possession.

I like Capoue too man, but he is not doing his job of late. The idea of himself as a box to box mid flat out has to go, because when he decides in his mind that he's going to be the CDM he actually does a solid job. But he did not do that yesterday, just as he hasn't done lately at all. He is letting runners go rampant, not getting to tackles well enough, and not even winning a high enough percentage of the balls when he gets there, and I think a lot of this is due to him being so constantly out of position. I cannot fathom why Poch has allowed this to persist. To me either he does his damn job or someone gets put in who will. But these instances are simply not on Mason's head, as it's not at all his responsibility to prevent those plays.

BC has his favourites. If this is Bentaleb and not Mason, BC's not saying a word.

 

[sparx100]

Mason really is seizing the opportunity. I take @Bus-Conductor point. I did see Mason nonchalantly doing a 'Rose of last season' by jogging back. Not great agreed. I do think his fitness is still building as he does tend to dip off in the second half but both examples were in the first half.

However what he does contribute is the ability to move the ball quick and keep his head up looking for the next pass. I do genuinely find him an exciting talent and much better than Bentaleb.

 

[hybridsoldier]

I was praying that one of our players would start laying into them.. we just don't seem to have that edge in any of the current squad

So true, we are such a nice side. I bet refs love officiating our games!

But no I really detest players surround the officials etc, for me players shouldn't be allowed to speak to the officials unless spoken to (how often do the officials listen to them anyway??). But I do think our current crop of players lack some...gumption.

 

[DaSpurs]

Mason really is seizing the opportunity. I take @Bus-Conductor point. I did see Mason nonchalantly doing a 'Rose of last season' by jogging back. Not great agreed. I do think his fitness is still building as he does tend to dip off in the second half but both examples were in the first half.

However what he does contribute is the ability to move the ball quick and keep his head up looking for the next pass. I do genuinely find him an exciting talent and much better than Bentaleb.

Jogging back in isolated incident without context paints an entirely different picture than the reality. That's like seeing a mail truck driving slowly and assuming the driver is a lazy twat, which would certainly be the case if you left out the very important detail that he was pulling up to someone's mailbox.

It's not Mason's job to follow one runner into a box devoid of other opposing players, when both CB's and Capoue are already there. Likewise, it's not Mason's job to follow a runner directly into Capoue's backside, especially when Capoue was already headed into the box. You cannot isolate this context, or Mason's position's responsibilities as well, from an observation; or it gives an entirely incorrect impression.

 

[Larryjanta]

Why is Mason being absolved from responsibility in the goal and other incidents.

First watch the build up to Benteke hitting the bar (12m54). Mason stands and watches as the play develops on the left hand side and can see NZogbia in front of him but just gently jogs instead of sprinting to get himself onto him, eventually reacts and but not in time to get a proper tackle and the ball ends up to their guy down the flank who crosses to an unmarked Benteke.

Same for the goal. Mason leaves one guy and watches as Weiman sprints past him, but doesn't sprint to stay with him or make any real attempt to do anything useful, just carries on jogging and eventually stops. Capoue actually picks him and covers the run, only for the cross to squirm it's way through to Weiman.

We need a CM who can contribute something offensively, and join in attacks, but they need to have the stamina and discipline (and intelligence) to make it work with a CM2 role, and, equally importantly, the rest of the team need to know how to cover this when it happens. A full back or AM needs to know to drop back or at least cover the space left behind or have the potential to and be thinking about it.

What we get is either no-one is prepared to make the forward run because they know they'll have to sprint back again, or they do go forward but can't be arsed to sprint back again and/or no-one else thinks "right, he's gone forward, I'm going to take responsibility and drop back into the space left behind".


This problem has been endemic. Just watching that first few minutes again, there is a typical incident on 12.33. Vertonghen gives a loose pass out to our left flank which is picked up by their player, Rose backs off because he sees Chadli is closer, but Chadli just stands off for no explicable reason and allows their player to advance until he whips in a cross. Rose gestures to Chadli as if to say "close him down ffs".

I'm sure I've read this somewhere else...

 

[SlickMongoose]

Is he OK? He didn't look comfortable at the end yesterday.

Really want him to stay injury free this season.

 

[idontgetit]

Ryan Mason after 59 mins

Dembele subbed on 59

 

[DaSpurs]

Is he OK? He didn't look comfortable at the end yesterday.

Really want him to stay injury free this season.

Happy he's made it this far to be honest. Lord knows I appreciate his presence in the side, but he's got to have the skinniest legs I've ever seen at this level.

 

[Syn_13]

Ryan Mason after 59 mins

Dembele subbed on 59

Be honest though, you did that on Paint in like 3 minutes.

 

[Kendall]

Happy he's made it this far to be honest. Lord knows I appreciate his presence in the side, but he's got to have the skinniest legs I've ever seen at this level.

Crouch.

 

[DaSpurs]

Crouch.

Nah those were just gangly, and made to look all the worse with how long they were.

 

[Kendall]

Nah those were just gangly, and made to look all the worse with how long they were.

I honestly thought they were just going to snap.

Modric had weird legs in that his calves looked small but he had huge quads. Balance!

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

On the opposite end of the scale, the memory of Noe Pamarots legs (and the player himself) still scare me. I remember them as being so stupidly large.

 

[lukespurs7]

Looking like a great talent. Think he actually suits our system as he's not going to create enough or get enough goals in an ACM role and he doesn't have the physicality to do a purely DM role however he is a good all-round CM can pass, tackle, has energy and can see him getting say 4-6 goals a season if he played all the games as he has a good shot on him, has come close a few times now. And most importantly he has a good attitude and fights for the team, really like him at the moment. Just need to get him a good partner now.

 

[DaSpurs]

I honestly thought they were just going to snap.

Truth. I still think that with Mason anytime he gets stuck in or gets tackled. Wince every single time.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I know this isn't fashionable at the mo, but it doesn't matter who partners Mason, if he's going to play in a CM2 he's got to learn to do the boring, disciplined positional stuff, work as duo with his CM partner and be more positionally aware.

At the moment, he's tearing around chasing the ball and he's getting plaudits because fans love a trier, and he's doing well recycling the ball, but he's not actually doing much incisive stuff and the trade off for his positional indiscipline is we are constantly left exposed to counter attacks and poorly protecting our back 4. He's tenacious and I like his feisty character, but he needs to be a bit more aware of what's happening when we haven't got the ball. I watched him watch as players strolled past him without tracking them again on Sunday (as he has done in other games) and this is fundamental stuff and endemic of a wider problem in our team. He's not a kid, he's 23/24. A CM2 is a tough gig.

Southampton are a good example of a CM2 that play in tandem and pivot off each other well. We have to emulate that.

 

[mpickard2087]

@Bus-Conductor

I agree with most of the post, I'm not sure he is there to be incisive though. Alright he isn't playing defence splitting passes with the minimum of effort, like say a Modric, but he's using the ball extremely quickly, often pinging a first touch pass forward taking out one of the oppositions defensive layers and into one of our front four. I think he is fulfilling the passing role for the Cm2... In so much as moving the ball quickly and efficiently and finding forward passes that bypass that layer of the oppositions defensive line. Its the front four who are expected to do the damage.