Players attitudes post CC Final

[Rabbi_Krustofski]

The players who chose to put there feet up after the CC Final and produce half arsed performances have ultimately done us a favour. I was happy to see this happen.
We're going to be a great team in the coming years, I think we all feel that.
The majority of the time with spurs is that we've had players of good ability, but inconsistant mental strength and concentration. This has seperated us from the top 4 for years. Some have argued it's down to our choice of captain, which I agree to in some measure, but it's mostly down to hunger and fight in each player.
Watching the results come in after the CC final was very interesting to see. I'm sure Ramos and Poyet were wearing raised eyebrows as the players exposed their true colours.
How stupid are the spurs players?
The management are still fresh and assessing futures for next season. The last set of fixtures in the league were to be a sign of things to come for next year, so we can hit the new campain all guns blazing. I'm backing Ramos in every choice he makes this summer, even if some of the 'hero's' we hold high are axed. They've shot theirselves in the foot and done the club a favour for exposing this in their game. Thank you Spurs light-weights.

 

[PT]

And this dismantling will occur over several windows - so don't hold your breath Rabbi.

 

[AngerManagement]

Which players do you suggest are guilty of this and to what extent?? (also who is exepmt from this this?)

 

[joey55]

Who has played badly since the CC? I just think everytime results don't go our way we blame the CC, yet our form has been the same as pre CC. The only difference is just before the CC we played 3 of the bottom 4, so it slightly inflated our points average. If you look at the possession and chances we've had the games post CC, it's been good, just things haven't always gone our way. We showed the same form in the UEFA Cup, yet we still had plenty to play for there. Also look at the results. We lost to Brum, but we also lost to them before the CC. Same with Newcastle. Infact, other than the Wigan and City results, we either matched or improved on the results we had against the same teams earlier in the season. And can someone please tell me what the hell Liverpool had to play for on Saturday? Nothing! Yet they beat us at a canter. We just aren't good enough and it has nothing or very little to do with post CC form. Remember how poor we were against Reading, Derby and Sunderland before the CC? Yet we picked up points because they are shit. If we played them post CC, it would have been the same. We also lost to Villa, Chelsea and drew to Everton without ever looking like we were going to win those games. Other than good wins against Pompey, City, Arsenal and Chelsea, we've been poor all season. Yet for some reason, it seems to have become popular opinion that since we've won the CC our form has dipped and the players aren't trying. I think in general we've played pretty well since the CC. We deserved more in the games against Boro, Bolton and Wigan, but didn't get the rub of the green. It just happens sometimes and to us this season more than to most.

 

[nicdic]

Have to agree Rabbi, I think the club will have learnt a lot from this period since the CC final.

 

[Montasura]

There is no doubt we had a few shitty results after the final but just a few.

Most of our erformances were actually very good, IMO. We were unlucky and lacked a finishing touch to close the matches but performances weremostly good I thought.

Still, I would have liked to have seen some fringe players getting a game or two since we were going nowhere in the league......more Boateng and Taraabt.

 

[900triumph]

Still, I would have liked to have seen some fringe players getting a game or two since we were going nowhere in the league......more Boateng and Taraabt.

...which would have seen us going nowhere on the pitch as well. Send those two out on loan, they both have much to learn if they are to fulfill their potentiaL, but I don't think WHL is the right environment, we (collectively, not personally) would be on their backs after every mistake.

 

[tRiKS]

Most of the opposition managers post CC said spurs were the best fotballing team they'd played and Southgate, Bruce and Hughes all said they felt thier teams were lucky not to go into half time 4 nil down.

The fact Ramos had no intention of pulling any tactical rabbits out of the hat for meanningless games was a good thing too. Why bother showing the rest of the world any more tactical tricks? save them for next season.
Why as a manager do you want to dilute the impact of half time team talks by wasting them during meaningless games?

The double sessions were stopped the moment we went out the UEFA our Captain was sent on holiday. All actions of a man giving himself and the sqaud a mental and physical rest befoe he gets them in for one almighty pre-season.

COYS!!!

 

[AngerManagement]

Most of the opposition managers post CC said spurs were the best fotballing team they'd played and Southgate, Bruce and Hughes all said they felt thier teams were lucky not to go into half time 4 nil down.

The fact Ramos had no intention of pulling any tactical rabbits out of the hat for meanningless games was a good thing too. Why bother showing the rest of the world any more tactical tricks? save them for next season.
Why as a manager do you want to dilute the impact of half time team talks by wasting them during meaningless games?

The double sessions were stopped the moment we went out the UEFA our Captain was sent on holiday. All actions of a man giving himself and the sqaud a mental and physical rest befoe he gets them in for one almighty pre-season.

COYS!!!

:clap: excellent post

 

[tRiKS]

:clap: excellent post

i average one a month

 

[Caboose]

Most of the opposition managers post CC said spurs were the best fotballing team they'd played and Southgate, Bruce and Hughes all said they felt thier teams were lucky not to go into half time 4 nil down.

The fact Ramos had no intention of pulling any tactical rabbits out of the hat for meanningless games was a good thing too. Why bother showing the rest of the world any more tactical tricks? save them for next season.
Why as a manager do you want to dilute the impact of half time team talks by wasting them during meaningless games?

The double sessions were stopped the moment we went out the UEFA our Captain was sent on holiday. All actions of a man giving himself and the sqaud a mental and physical rest befoe he gets them in for one almighty pre-season.

COYS!!!

I tell my friends about this drivvle that gets spouted out on here as to Ramos not 'revealing his tactical tricks/cards'. You know what they do? They laugh at it as do I because that's rubbish, do you really think at half time Ramos stands int he changing room and just says 'Take a breather lads and when you go out there for the second half don't do anything different', 'Lennon you're full backs looking a bit exposed, don't do anything though, we don't want people seeing you skinning him and thinking we have stop you doing that when we play you next year'

What do you think the changes to formation are during games, pulling off a defender, reshaping the team moving players around, those are Ramos' tactics, those are his tricks. We simply haven't been good enough and quite frankly apart from a few games early doors neither has Ramos. Berbatov playing almost as a midfielder, our midfielders frequently playing in defence.. that's what's been messing us up.

I'm not against Ramos, I hope he leads us to great success, but as far as I can see, his management and his ideas with the current players we have don't work all that well.

Don't be silly enough to think that a man that took off a player and didn't bring on a replacement because he thought his team were cruising during a match would ever hold back from trying to win every match 100%. If that's the case he's hypocrite and how can he demand the most from players when he's not giving it himself.

 

[SpurSince57]

I have to say I agree. Not only is the notion that Ramos is keeping his powder dry until next season wildly implausible in itself, with half the squad apparently on its way out our tactics next season are likely to be markedly different from those we've been able to employ this. Nor does another theory I've seen expressed elsewhere on SC—that Ramos is giving players rope to hang themselves—hold water. Frankly, if that were the case I'd want him out.

And it's not just since the CC Final that our league form has been generally poor. It's been poor since the start of the year—we've beaten only Sunderland and Derby (and made a meal of both), West Ham (who were in a major slump), and Reading. The only win over a halfway decent side came against Pompey.

 

[joey55]

Why don't people just join maxxed football, download some Sevilla games from last season and actually watch a Ramos side play? At the moment Ramos has no chance of matching fan expectation as there seems to be some bizzarre notion that he is some sort of super coach, that has methods and tactics way beyond what we've seen before. If they actually watched some Seville games, they'd see the same stuff we are seeing now and the same stuff we saw when Seville played us last season.

Football is not American Football. No matter how much pundits, the media, fans or messageboard posters exaggerate it, it just isn't that complicated and Ramos will be the same as any other competent coach. If he has good players, suddenly his coaching and tactics will be great and if he doesn't get such good players, as is the case at the moment, he coaching and tactics will come into question.

For Ramos to get a fair crack at the whip with the fans, they firstly need to stop comparing him with Jol. Secondly, they need to stop judging him on his CV and what he won at Seville. Football history will show you that what a coach has won at one club counts for absolutely jack shit at another. And this is even more so the case when that coach had a Director of Football buying the majority of the players. Just look at the likes of Toppmuller, Le Guen and Cuper.

I just wish we could stop having to read about how people can't wait to see what Ramos can do with a full pre season, when his gets time to employ his methods and starts to really implement his tactics. It's just living in a fantasy world. I've pointed out loads of times, that every single a time a coach had been appointed mid season, as Ramos has been and then gone on to be a success, he has beaten the previous seasons points tally in the equivalent fixtures. So needing time with the squad is just somehting we hear from the media etc. It just isn't true in reallity and that has been the case so far 100% of the time.

We've seen what Ramos can do as a coach and if people judge him without preconceptions (such as he's some sort of wonder coach or against BMJ), he's done and is doing a very good job. But, unfortunatley, by and large i don't thinknthis happening. He's either being compared with Jol and it's being suggested we are going to see the real (mythical) Ramos work next season. At the end of the day, like all competent coach's, his fate will largelly be decided by the players he brings in or are brought in for him. It's easy to get your tactics, substitutions and formation etc right when you have good players, in fact, with good players you can get your tactics wrong a lot of the time and still do well.

 

[SpurSince57]

I agree. The one thing I would say is that we've done only marginally better over the last ten games than we did over the first ten, the difference being that over the first ten the popular consensus was that it was the coach's fault, not the players'. Now that consensus appears to have gone in the opposite direction. Yet, with two or three obvious exceptions, this is the essentially the same squad, with, we are assured, added fitness, improved nutrition, and, er…

Whatever we are missing now we were missing in August and September, and back then some of us were saying that once the players were out on the field the coach could do very little to influence matters short of running on the pitch himself and physically dragging them into position.

As far as one can tell—and this can only be surmise—one of the reasons Jol fell out of favour was that he told Levy the squad didn't have sufficient quality or strength in depth to mount a serious challenge to the Cartel. It appears to have taken Ramos to persuade Levy that his predecessor was actually right.

 

[Yiddo1982]

Why don't people just join maxxed football, download some Sevilla games from last season and actually watch a Ramos side play? At the moment Ramos has no chance of matching fan expectation as there seems to be some bizzarre notion that he is some sort of super coach, that has methods and tactics way beyond what we've seen before. If they actually watched some Seville games, they'd see the same stuff we are seeing now and the same stuff we saw when Seville played us last season.

Football is not American Football. No matter how much pundits, the media, fans or messageboard posters exaggerate it, it just isn't that complicated and Ramos will be the same as any other competent coach. If he has good players, suddenly his coaching and tactics will be great and if he doesn't get such good players, as is the case at the moment, he coaching and tactics will come into question.

For Ramos to get a fair crack at the whip with the fans, they firstly need to stop comparing him with Jol. Secondly, they need to stop judging him on his CV and what he won at Seville. Football history will show you that what a coach has won at one club counts for absolutely jack shit at another. And this is even more so the case when that coach had a Director of Football buying the majority of the players. Just look at the likes of Toppmuller, Le Guen and Cuper.

I just wish we could stop having to read about how people can't wait to see what Ramos can do with a full pre season, when his gets time to employ his methods and starts to really implement his tactics. It's just living in a fantasy world. I've pointed out loads of times, that every single a time a coach had been appointed mid season, as Ramos has been and then gone on to be a success, he has beaten the previous seasons points tally in the equivalent fixtures. So needing time with the squad is just somehting we hear from the media etc. It just isn't true in reallity and that has been the case so far 100% of the time.

We've seen what Ramos can do as a coach and if people judge him without preconceptions (such as he's some sort of wonder coach or against BMJ), he's done and is doing a very good job. But, unfortunatley, by and large i don't thinknthis happening. He's either being compared with Jol and it's being suggested we are going to see the real (mythical) Ramos work next season. At the end of the day, like all competent coach's, his fate will largelly be decided by the players he brings in or are brought in for him. It's easy to get your tactics, substitutions and formation etc right when you have good players, in fact, with good players you can get your tactics wrong a lot of the time and still do well.

Joey55.

If you mind me asking, do you have a job in football?
You always seem to speak the most sense on this site, and have a very in-depth knowledge of the European game.

 

[joey55]

I agree. The one thing I would say is that we've done only marginally better over the last ten games than we did over the first ten, the difference being that over the first ten the popular consensus was that it was the coach's fault, not the players'. Now that consensus appears to have gone in the opposite direction. Yet, with two or three obvious exceptions, this is the essentially the same squad, with, we are assured, added fitness, improved nutrition, and, er…

Whatever we are missing now we were missing in August and September, and back then some of us were saying that once the players were out on the field the coach could do very little to influence matters short of running on the pitch himself and physically dragging them into position.

As far as one can tell—and this can only be surmise—one of the reasons Jol fell out of favour was that he told Levy the squad didn't have sufficient quality or strength in depth to mount a serious challenge to the Cartel. It appears to have taken Ramos to persuade Levy that his predecessor was actually right.

That's exactly what i think, yet there are still many people that seem reluctant to accept this. We were first told of the boards unrest with Jol during the summer and just 2 games into the season Ramosgate happens. Levy isn't some emotionally driven moron, but a top class business man and hugely successful academic (1st degree from cambridge). He wouldn't have sanctioned we got to Seville on a whim or 2 games losing streak. Clearly he had been advised that with the squad Jol had, we should have done better than 5th. We even had that absurd club statement in which it was clearly stated that we thought the squad should be challenging the top 4. Yet here we are less than a year later and the new coach has already spent about £36 million. And I strongly suspect we'll be spending a good deal more in the coming months. People can argue he's got to have players for his style, but htat's a total contradiction of why we had the two tier system. The system was put in place to ensure continuity and thus stop the need for wholesale changes. There can be little doubt that, as you said, the main impact Ramos has had is to convince Levy Jol was right. I can't really see why there is still any argument over this.

 

[SpurSince57]

Jol was quoted a couple of years back as saying that Levy knew nothing about football. (I'll fish it out sometime.) It was put very jovially, in typical Jol fashion, but I doubt it went down too well.

The fact is, overachievement in 2005-2006 heightened expectations absurdly. Cracking the top four is a hugely difficult proposition, supplanting one of the current incumbents on even a semi-permanent basis more difficult still. If we are to believe Rabbi Crackers' ITK, Ramos has realised that it's a totally different matter from La Liga—and I'm sure he was fully aware of that before he took the job on. After all, Sevilla looked nailed on to clinch a CL spot in 2004-2005, only to be overhauled by Betis over the last couple of games—much to del Nido's chagrin, and almost certainly the reason Caparros was given the boot and Ramos appointed in his place. And the following season Sevilla were pipped by Osasuna, on results between the two, I believe. The fact that both Osasuna and Betis have since slid right down the table over the past two seasons demonstrates how comparatively open La Liga is.

Liverpool have spent heavily under Rafa, but, whilst they clearly have the edge over us, Everton and Villa, they're no likelier to mount a serious title challenge than we are. In fact, they're no better off than when Houllier left. One can question Rafa's rotation policy, but nobody would suggest he's a poor coach—and Ferguson rotates at least as much. The obvious conclusion? The squad still isn't strong enough.

 

[StockSpur]

i think there are a lot of factors involved in these issues discussed, ill judge ramos based on signings and team performance next season, like jol hes made the odd tactical change that didnt make sense or even work but name a manger that rarely does!

besides, i think the spurs team of the last few seasons has been very unbalanced and if it hadnt for the creativity of the strikers and the odd goal from jenas and a huge slice of luck when needed we would be in the mill with 6 or 7 other teams rather than pushing for a cl spot in the last 2 seasons.

oh wait thats exactly where we are now!

 

[double0]

It all boils down to MONEY.

 

[double0]

I was watching an interview with Harry Redknapp as part of the FA Cup Final build up, the question was posed, what can Pompey achieve? can they break into the top 4? In typical Harry fashion, chairman in toe, he relied: " If the chairman gave me £200M then maybe yes we have a chance"

That summed it all up for me.