Players attitudes post CC Final

[stemark44]

It's not about comparing managers, but illustrating the size of the gap that needs to be closed if we are to challenge the top 4. But, as a side point, we might have been struggling, but we certainly weren't your typical struggling side. We definitely had the 5th best squad in the Prem and I would be very dissapointed if we didn't finish 5th next season. However, I certainly don't agree with what would seem to have been the board's opinion, which was we were a good coach away from breaking into the top 4. I thought and now more than ever think, our 2 5th place finishes were a fantastic achievments that have clearly been under valued by both people at the club and sections of our fans.

With the group of players(excluding Modric) we have Joey,we will not finish 5th next year!
We missed the boat last summer with the players we signed and other teams have spent wisely and passed us by!

 

[joey55]

With the group of players(excluding Modric) we have Joey,we will not finish 5th next year!
We missed the boat last summer with the players we signed and other teams have spent wisely and passed us by!

True, but we've since bought in two top class players Woodgate and Hutton. So, i'd say we've readdressed the balance. We always had the 5th best squad, but in terms of first team balance we weren't as well equipped as the likes of Everton or Villa. Look at Villa, their squad isn't anywhere near as good as ours, but they have had very few injuries and their first team had a good balance to it and the right mix of young talent and experience. It's the same with Blackburn, they don't have our talent pool, but they have a beautifully balanced team and experience in key areas, which is something we lacked at the start of the season and boy did it cost us! With the addition of Hutton, Woodgate and Modric, i think we are the strongest outside the top 4. Also, we only had Bale for 6 games and he should be back aswell.

 

[The Apprentice]

Enough of the mutual back slapping boys. It's a bit sickening.

The attitude of the squad since the CC final has by and large been awful. I think I can hear a bell, it must be the sound of Juande ringing the changes. Good fucking job.

 

[Sbix]

Yes, quite sad to see the attitude displayed by our players lately really. But we do have a lot of potential in the squad, and with a few more key acquisitions like Modric then we should have the balance to our squad along with potential to actually challenge for fourth! That is if the attitude is addressed!

 

[joey55]

Why don't people name names? I keep reading about poor attitude or effort, but who exactly are they talking about? If we look at the main starters I can't really see who has been guilty of not putting their usual effort in.

Cerny - Who can tell with a keeper? I can't imagine he hasn't been trying and made some decent saves in recent weeks.
Gilberto - Who knows? We didn't see him pre CC.
Daws - No change at all.
Woodgate - See the best player of 2008 thread
Hutton -See the best player of 2008 thread
Malbranque - Put in 100% effort for every minute of every game.
Zokora - Keep reading how he's been doing much better recently.
JJ - Getting alot of criticism, but doesn't he get this at some point every season?
O'Hara - always committed
Lennon - Hard to tell, but I think in general he's been the same. I remember an article recently when the Hudd said he on fire.
Hudd - I think he's been playing great and got called up to the England squad and is looking fitter than ever. Not classic signs of a down turn in attitude.
Bent - Never stops trying.
Berba - People have complained about his attitude all season, so no change there then.
Keane - He would never play without giving his all. Some don't like his complaining and think he wimps out of tackles, but I doubt anyone would suggest he doesn't always give his best.

Basically the only players with possible question marks over their committment are JJ and Lennon. But they JJ's stats show his usual work rate, he's just off form, which happens every year. As for Lennon, I don't really see any difference.

 

[SpurSince57]

Enough of the mutual back slapping boys. It's a bit sickening.

The attitude of the squad since the CC final has by and large been awful. I think I can hear a bell, it must be the sound of Juande ringing the changes. Good fucking job.

So you've failed to follow the argument. No change there, then.

 

[Sbix]

Why don't people name names? I keep reading about poor attitude or effort, but who exactly are they talking about? If we look at the main starters I can't really see who has been guilty of not putting their usual effort in.

Cerny - Who can tell with a keeper? I can't imagine he hasn't been trying and made some decent saves in recent weeks.
Gilberto - Who knows? We didn't see him pre CC.
Daws - No change at all.
Woodgate - See the best player of 2008 thread
Hutton -See the best player of 2008 thread
Malbranque - Put in 100% effort for every minute of every game.
Zokora - Keep reading how he's been doing much better recently.
JJ - Getting alot of criticism, but doesn't he get this at some point every season?
O'Hara - always committed
Lennon - Hard to tell, but I think in general he's been the same. I remember an article recently when the Hudd said he on fire.
Hudd - I think he's been playing great and got called up to the England squad and is looking fitter than ever. Not classic signs of a down turn in attitude.
Bent - Never stops trying.
Berba - People have complained about his attitude all season, so no change there then.
Keane - He would never play without giving his all. Some don't like his complaining and think he wimps out of tackles, but I doubt anyone would suggest he doesn't always give his best.

Basically the only players with possible question marks over their committment are JJ and Lennon. But they JJ's stats show his usual work rate, he's just off form, which happens every year. As for Lennon, I don't really see any difference.

The problem for me has not been the individual effort of most players.. but the fact that somehow the Carling Cup success in the back of their heads made them more relaxed and a bit less willing to stick a foot in or run that little bit faster....

As individual performances that might not have been noticed, but combined as a team that meant we just didn't work hard enough for each other and so our performances seemed a bit lackluster... :shrug:

And I think that is something that the crowd or the sofa guy notices quite easy.. hence the complaints about effort...

 

[tRiKS]

If that is what's happened, too damned right I don't think it's fair on the fans. I don't get to too many games these days, but I'd be bloody livid if I were paying good money and it turned out that we were playing for half a game on orders. It's bad enough listening to this crap on the radio.

But I don't believe that is the case, because I don't believe for a moment Ramos is keeping a load of special tricks up his sleeve for next season. As joey said before, football's not gridiron. The differences we'll see next season will be in personnel.

I don't think we are playing half a game on orders just not getting the same orders at half time. There's a difference..

I think we'll see changes in personnel and i also think we'll capitalise early doors on a bit of complacency from our opponents. This second psychological edge i think will be a direct result of Ramos holding back some stuff in the post UEFA cup spurs of the last 9 games. I think our coach will be fresh and have andded verve from his extra long mental rest too.

The money you feel conned out of this season wil pail into insignificance compared to the joy and value you'll get next year.

I can tell my line of reason is irritating you though and i'm not going to change my mind based on the underwheleming arguments so far so lets leave it??!? and just enjoy whatever upturn in fortunes we have.

 

[joey55]

The problem for me has not been the individual effort of most players.. but the fact that somehow the Carling Cup success in the back of their heads made them more relaxed and a bit less willing to stick a foot in or run that little bit faster....

As individual performances that might not have been noticed, but combined as a team that meant we just didn't work hard enough for each other and so our performances seemed a bit lackluster... :shrug:

And I think that is something that the crowd or the sofa guy notices quite easy.. hence the complaints about effort...

I just think people start to see what they read or infact want to see. I bet in the games we won people didn't see a lack of effort. Had we not played Sunderland, Fulham and Derby just before the CC, then would have form have been any different? I'm sure we'd have stuffed all 3 had we played after the CC. In fact we looked lazy and unfit in comparison to Sunderland and that was before the CC. Against derby until Berba came on in the second half, they were as good as us. I thought we played far better against Reading last week than we did in the 6-4 game. They could have scored 7 or 8 in that game. Basically it's easy to see what you want from whatever angle you decide to look at it from. If you want to see them as lacklustre then it's easy to convince yourself they were and if you don't vise versa.

 

[Sbix]

That's probably true Joey, and the CC win probably makes many a man blind to our form just before that game.

Think many wanted us to by and with the Carling Cup win, push on, and show that we can perform like that consistently now and show some promise for next season ( I know I did) so our quite low points an average for the games after makes people disappointed.

And if your not going to blame player quality to much or the new coach (who shouldn't be judged this soon) then what else is there to turn to than lack of will and effort?

 

[SpurSince57]

We keep getting back to this 'since the Carling Cup' nonsense. The league performances prior to the CC Final weren't particularly scintillating, either; people complain about our opening game against Sunderland, but was the return a better performance? OK, we took three points, but they largely dominated the second half and had their finishing been better we might have been embarrassed again. Few Spurs fans, and absolutely no neutrals, would have begrudged them a point.

Perversely, the Liverpool game aside, we've reserved our best performances for the best opposition. The game of the season for me wasn't the CC final or semi, but the 4-4 against Chelsea. Why couldn't we reproduce that level of fight and performance against the Barcodes or Boro? Answers on a postcard, please, because I really, really don't know.

My best guess is that it's a fragile mentality. As so many have said so often, we lack leadership, and we lack it where it maybe matters most, in midfield. Go right back to the start of the season, against Fulham, when we ran amok and could easily have been four or five up; Jol takes Keane off and puts Defoe on, and suddenly we're on the back foot against a side we've been overrunning. There were suggestions Jol had ordered the lads to circle the wagons, but if that had been the case wouldn't it have made more sense to send on a midfielder or defender rather than an out-and-out striker?

Has the general pattern changed that much?

 

[Sbix]

SS57, the 'since the Carling Cup' nonsense matters since it in extreme has been since then that people has been going on about lack of effort and such in our performances... I believe we have seen a lack of effort, but like you say it's more over the season, and especially against non-top teams.

And as you say, probably in part cos we lack a leader in the middle of the park, or anywhere on the pitch when King doesn't play for that matter.

 

[stemark44]

The biggest problem in our team(not just now but for as long as I can remember)is that we have far too many players who are inconsistent - we can be brilliant one week and shit the next,regardless of the opposition and away from home we are a bunch of pansies!
Our manager can't really plan properly because he does'nt know how our current players will perform on any given day!
Ramos needs players that he can depend on,who will give him a certain level of performance for a high percentage of games - thats the only way the club can really move forward.
He does'nt want players who can turn it on for a few cup games and then cruise through a couple of league games - thats not being professional and he won't accept it!

 

[SpurSince57]

I think we've noticed it more, but it's been there since the turn of the year.

The trouble with this is that it's very difficult to prevent it becoming a Jol v. Ramos argument. My point, and joey's, is that we have failed to build on our unexpected success of 2005-2006; we got away with it last season, but this season the chickens came home to roost, at least as far as the league was concerned.

Bottom line, as far as the league is concerned, is that two good coaches have failed to get consistent performances out of what is, on paper, a very good squad. There's an obvious conclusion to be drawn there.

 

[stemark44]

'57 I don't want an argument about Jol - I liked the guy as much as anyone and I rate him highly as a coach.There is no doubt that he truly loved Spurs and every decision he made was with the best intentions for this club.In my opinion he loved the club too much and that was his downfall - when he needed to stand back and view problems from a different perspective he simply could'nt.
Any points I make about our managers and players are not made in malice - believe me, its not personal ,its just business!

 

[The Apprentice]

So you've failed to follow the argument. No change there, then.

Sorry Joey, I mean SS, no I mean Joey. Damn it.

 

[gibbs131]

Our players have more skill than every team outside the top 4.

In fact we probably have more raw skill than some of the top 4.

Trouble is we sign flakes, moaners, party boys, dullards, sulkers, gangstas and midgets.

Our young players don't react to training, don't train/condition themselves like athletes, make the same mistakes day in day out, party too often, have terrible motivation and need examples instead of being the example.

I am fed up of supporting a team who don't have any pride in the club. Alex Ferguson would have shipped these out a long time ago because they are not the footballing robots of excellence he demands.

We have made awful money wasting decisions by buying raw dazzling talent coupled with the worst attitudes money can buy.

 

[Thesoccershrink]

A team is more than the sum of its individuals.

For some time now we simply have not had a leader or leaders on the pitch. More than anything else this summer we need to get such leadership...and that's not just a hard man (a la Gattuso) but a driving force who'll make most of those around him increase their level of commitment.

 

[gibbs131]

A team is more than the sum of its individuals.

For some time now we simply have not had a leader or leaders on the pitch. More than anything else this summer we need to get such leadership...and that's not just a hard man (a la Gattuso) but a driving force who'll make most of those around him increase their level of commitment.

True.