Ratings V Fulham

[Cravenspurs]

Lloris 8.5 best goalkeeper in the league

Walker 7.5 excellent all-round game

Dawson 6 other than the crap pass that set up Fulham's goal, he played OK

Chiriches 8 we're going to have to put up with the occasional defensive aberration stemming from over-confidence, but he's a class act and looks increasingly comfortable in the Premiership

Vertonghen 6

Sandro 6 half of a double pivot that didn't do what it was supposed to do

Capoue 5.5 amazingly, got bustled off the ball by Fulham's midfielders

Paulinho 6 good performance let down by bad finishing

Lennon 6.5 almost back to his full-fitness form

Lamela 5.5 I'm not seeing what many others saw last night - most of the time, he still got knocked off the ball before he could do anything useful with it - Lamela sets off on all sorts of enterprising runs, but he almost never gets to deliver the ball

Defoe 6.5 played much better than people seem to think, including two genuinely creative passes in the first half - got into good positions, but the ball never really came in, at least not accurately


Holtby 7.5 great goal, good energy and running in an otherwise unstructured midfield lacking a DM

Chadli 6

Townsend 6

In regards to Lamela, I saw a guy that wanted to get forward and was really looking to pass and move. Once he understands the physicality of the league he will fit in.

Remember Sandro's first couple of games? He was off pace and people quickly threw him under the bus. So just wait and see.

 

[Mr Pink]

Waited a while to do ratings, wanted to watch it again - the extended highlights on Sky without the emotion of last night. I was always most concerned with our immediate performances after the City humbling. I think we've seen a slight improvement, but nothing significant in truth. We played with more urgency against United, and the fact they allow you to play a bit helped, and we were facing a Fulham side who looked completely different under their new coach last night so its still too premature to be making any cast iron judgements as such, but the areas of concern still persist.

Others have touched on those areas, and my greatest fear nagging away at the back of my nugget is that we don't have enough of the type/quality of player to play the way AVB wants us to in a successful enough way. We look far more suited to counter attacking still. Paulinho's chance last night, Soldado's against United...etc. These are the few real clear cut chances we've been creating of late (aside from the Newcastle second half that looks a complete anomaly)

Will AVB keep persisting with this. I think his future will come down to how prepared he is to compromise. Has he already shown signs of this? We did look a little deeper last night, but was that planned, or just a pattern of the game?

Ultimately though I'm not expecting us to just click in to this slick passing machine, possession and territorial dominant side that is going to slide through teams with ease anytime soon. I think AVB has to manage a short term vision here in order to get a chance at executing a long term one, because I don't even think he's close to having the right sort of personnel to do so....and therein I think lies the problem. Playing high up the pitch, with less space and nowhere near enough footballing ability to play like this - no slight on our players, I just think there is way more to it than our players settling and the team clicking. Arsenal have an absolute plethora of this type of player we're crying out for to play the way AVB has us trying to. Erisksen is the only real one we have IMO.

Anyway, individual ratings:

Lloris 9 absolutely stunning

Walker 8 very good all round, particularly enjoyed his determination to retrieve the ball right on the line - and it nearly resulted in a goal after Holtby crossed for Paulinho

Dawson 5.5 another mistake

Vlad 8 oozes class, even put Berbatov on his arse...and what technique for the goal. Special player we've got here.

Vertonghen 6 ok

Sandro 6 we got over run for periods, I bet the beast isn't use to that. Ok

Capoue 6 same as above.

Lennon 6 a few good things, offered an outlet, but nothing seriously eye catching.

Paulinho 7 thought he played well, worked hard and should of had at least one goal. The one in first half was a bad miss but great to see him get up in support like that and he engineers the chance beautifully. Very frustrating to see him blast that over.

Lamela 6.5 when switched to the left he looked better. I thought he was lively in spells, he had a nice effort deflected....a shot he glances wide set up by Defoe...and he nicked the ball off Berbatov at one point and set off on a great run. Gradually seeing more from him.

Defoe 6.5 thought he played reasonably well in the first half. Involved and opted for the pass in the correct instances. A bit more frustrating in the second, but still it was a decent enough effort I thought. For what Defoe normally offers in terms of team play, I actually thought it was a slight improvement.

Holtby - 7.5 great strike and nearly an assist for Paulinho as well.

Townsend 6

 

[Mr Pink]

And just to add to that, I would like to see us play a little deeper, ceding a little possession if you will. Drawing teams out and hitting them on the counter will see our goal tally rise I reckon. We have the players to play this way, we have the ball winners and we have the pace and power to break out.

Play to the present squads strength for now - that would be my preference and message to AVB, for now at least.

 

[scat1620]

And just to add to that, I would like to see us play a little deeper, ceding a little possession if you will. Drawing teams out and hitting them on the counter will see our goal tally rise I reckon. We have the players to play this way, we have the ball winners and we have the pace and power to break out.

Play to the present squads strength for now - that would be my preference and message to AVB, for now at least.

Abso-bloody-exactly. No point in camping on the opposition's 18 yard line if we don't have the imagination to break down the inevitable banks of 4 defenders + 4/5 midfielders. Far better to step back a bit, draw the opposition out and then hit them when their usually-parked bus has left the depot. We don't have the imagination for option #1 in the side at the moment, due to a combination of personnel and coaching (in whatever weighting you prefer to apportion to each element), so let's try option #2 instead. Can't be any worse in terms of performances.

 

[Mr Pink]

Abso-bloody-exactly. No point in camping on the opposition's 18 yard line if we don't have the imagination to break down the inevitable banks of 4 defenders + 4/5 midfielders. Far better to step back a bit, draw the opposition out and then hit them when their usually-parked bus has left the depot. We don't have the imagination for option #1 in the side at the moment, due to a combination of personnel and coaching (in whatever weighting you prefer to apportion to each element), so let's try option #2 instead. Can't be any worse in terms of performances.

Totally agree. It really is quite obvious now. Comes down to how flexible AVB is prepared to be, because if he keeps the present style and set up going we're going to continue to struggle and we'll be relying on long range shots and penalties for the foreseeable.

I was going through all our goals in my head. Siggy's three goals, two against Norwich and one against Chelsea, Paulinho's against Cardiff...and Soldado's against Villa.

5 goals in 14 league games, that we've actually crafted. Its remarkable, it really is. The rest have been outside the box or penalties. If that trend were to continue we'd be looking at about 13/14 goals over a season via team play - its just insane and not sustainable in any way in terms of the ambitions we have because you won't get a penalty every week and you won't score from outside the box every week either.

Creating clear cut chances and finishing them off via decent team play are your bread and butter goals - and that's where we have a serious problem.

 

[markieboy]

For me we should drop the 4-2-3-1 and stick with 4-4-1-1 with a bit of width to create space for Soldado with Paulinho or a.n.other running into the box.
The high line defence...........shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

For me we should drop the 4-2-3-1 and stick with 4-4-1-1 with a bit of width to create space for Soldado with Paulinho or a.n.other running into the box.
The high line defence...........shove it where the sun don't shine.

It isn't about formations, which are fluid anyway. It's about the pace of our play, specifically about the lack of a change of pace when we approach the penalty box. People fuss way too much about notional formations.

As for the high defensive line, it has one great merit, which is that, as long as we can control 60% possession, which we usually do, we deprive the opposition of chances. Early this season, before teams started to set themselves out to nullify our attacking play, we were putting together 15-20 meaningful attacks a game to our opponents' 5-8 attacks. That's a good strategy - but not if it stifles our own attacking play, which it wouldn't, if we could change the pace when we attack.

 

[Mr Pink]

It isn't about formations, which are fluid anyway. It's about the pace of our play, specifically about the lack of a change of pace when we approach the penalty box. People fuss way too much about notional formations.

As for the high defensive line, it has one great merit, which is that, as long as we can control 60% possession, which we usually do, we deprive the opposition of chances. Early this season, before teams started to set themselves out to nullify our attacking play, we were putting together 15-20 meaningful attacks a game to our opponents' 5-8 attacks. That's a good strategy - but not if it stifles our own attacking play, which it wouldn't, if we could change the pace when we attack.

I agree David, but do you not think its harder to change the pace of our attack when we're higher up the pitch with less room to work with? Couple that with not having Cazorla/Silva esque sort of players and I think it becomes even more difficult. That's more of the problem probably.

Personally I think its an excellent strategy if you have the appropriate personnel to get the best out of it. At the moment I think its served us very well from a defensive point of view but obviously it hasn't from an attacking one. The balance of the squad isn't right for the way we are trying to play.

Would love to see us move the ball faster, one touch, more risk and ambition with our passing, but I still feel the players we have aren't as capable as you would need to see this sort of football on a regular basis. If they were we'd be seeing the potential and mistakes being made in the process whilst understanding and familiarity are being forged. But you would see the potential, we havn't really.

I mean, for instance, playing Chadli and Townsend like we were at the start of the season - are those the sort of players who are going to give you that? Not for me. They're players who are pacey and powerful and could hurt teams on the counter. In front of deep lying defences I just can't imagine them playing quick incisive intricate passes regularly through out a game.

For me there is a big disparity in the players we have and the way AVB wants us to play. Yes defensively its improved us ten fold as a collective, but from an attacking sense I can't understand the logic of it given the types of players we have. Still convinced this squad is more suited to playing on the counter as opposed to a possession side playing and dominating high up the pitch.

I know AVB likes to rotate, but I can't help but feel this is a clear sign of him desperately tying to find a solution to how we can improve in an attacking sense. Chopping and changing the players hoping that it will just click. The big clue is this...if he was confident it would, he'd be sticking with a core group of players and making minor changes and tweaks.

We bought Eriksen, but we needed more than just him to play this way. Could be another example of our committee and our manager not having a clear enough understanding between them of the type of player needed for a certain way to play. I'm not sure, that's just speculating.

 

[markieboy]

Sorry but it is about formations as well.....if you have watched most of our games this season,you might have noticed that our play is being compressed and suffocated into one area of the pitch.
Our defence pushes up to the half-way line,our inverted wingers come inside all the time and both teams get congested into an area which is a quarter of the pitch.
There is no space so we can't play the ball forward and we end up moving it from side to side or else backwards.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Walker 8 very good all round, particularly enjoyed his determination to retrieve the ball right on the line - and it nearly resulted in a goal after Holtby crossed for Paulinho

The reason he had to retrieve the ball was because he failed to control it in the first place and then lost it. And there is Walker in a nutshell. If you can close your eyes to the fuck-ups you can enjoy the retrievals. Even on a good day it's usually a pretty even ledger. Sunday is a typical game in the life of Walker. Smashes in a goal then mis-controls one to put Rooney in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think AVB has to manage a short term vision here in order to get a chance at executing a long term one,

Some might argue, that that is what he has been doing.

 

[Mr Pink]

Some might argue, that that is what he has been doing.

Yes I even said so myself, but I'm not sure in all honesty.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

What are you boys on about? This?

Andre Villas-Boas's job safe at Tottenham but some figures at the club would like a change of tactics

Andre Villas-Boas's job at Tottenham is safe for now but he is coming under increasing pressure from figures within the club

Andre Villas-Boas remains under pressure from figures on the Tottenham Hotspur board - and some members of his coaching staff - to accommodate two strikers in his team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-the-club-would-like-a-change-of-tactics.html

 

[Flashspur]

Abso-bloody-exactly. No point in camping on the opposition's 18 yard line if we don't have the imagination to break down the inevitable banks of 4 defenders + 4/5 midfielders. Far better to step back a bit, draw the opposition out and then hit them when their usually-parked bus has left the depot. We don't have the imagination for option #1 in the side at the moment, due to a combination of personnel and coaching (in whatever weighting you prefer to apportion to each element), so let's try option #2 instead. Can't be any worse in terms of performances.

yes look at Sandro's goal vs Manure....there we are with 4 players and United have 9 in their third both Saldado and Paulinho are man marked so Sandro does the next best thing....goes for a 30 metre hail mary. Clearly, the opposition have worked out that putting 8 players behind the ball when playing against us effectively shuts us down.

 

[Flashspur]

Sorry but it is about formations as well.....if you have watched most of our games this season,you might have noticed that our play is being compressed and suffocated into one area of the pitch.
Our defence pushes up to the half-way line,our inverted wingers come inside all the time and both teams get congested into an area which is a quarter of the pitch.
There is no space so we can't play the ball forward and we end up moving it from side to side or else backwards.

and that, my friend, is the Vilas Boas way

 

[Beni]

And just to add to that, I would like to see us play a little deeper, ceding a little possession if you will. Drawing teams out and hitting them on the counter will see our goal tally rise I reckon. We have the players to play this way, we have the ball winners and we have the pace and power to break out.

Play to the present squads strength for now - that would be my preference and message to AVB, for now at least.

Agree, I said something along these lines in the tactical autopsy thread, that due to our slow build up play currently, until all of our players have gelled, we should stop our pressing game high up the pitch and allow them onto us and become a counter attacking team. Particular for games at White Hart Lane.

 

[Beni]

Lloris - 9 - MOM - We have a world class keeper.

Walker - 7 - Got forward well and did well up against Fulhams left winger (Can't remember his name)

Chiriches - 7 - great goal, so much confidence and composure on the ball, best signing so far.

Dawson - 5 - Looked clumsy, lost possession a number of times with his long balls and partially at fault for Fulhams goal

Vertonghen - 6 - looks tired, didn't get forward much and didn't have the greatest game. Need out left back back and him back to centre half.

Sandro - 6 - always looking busy, showing for the ball and wanting to drive the team forward, looked a bit weak against Fulhams midfield.

Paulinho - 7 - Lacked composure when we needed him, but at least was in them positions to get the chances he had

Capoue - 5 - Didn't look match ready, was out bossed a number of times by Karagounis and Parker.

Lennon - 7 - looked lively and a good outlet on the wings, having to fight for his place always brings the best out of him.

Lamela - 6 - Starting to show glimpses of what he can do, showing for the ball and moving it quickly with 1 or 2 touches. Unlucky with a couple of efforts.

Defoe - 7 - Played well, set others up and also should have scored himself

Holtby - 6 - Apart from his great goal, his positional play and passing was poor

Chadli and Townsend - 5

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What are you boys on about? This?

Andre Villas-Boas's job safe at Tottenham but some figures at the club would like a change of tactics

Andre Villas-Boas's job at Tottenham is safe for now but he is coming under increasing pressure from figures within the club

Andre Villas-Boas remains under pressure from figures on the Tottenham Hotspur board - and some members of his coaching staff - to accommodate two strikers in his team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-the-club-would-like-a-change-of-tactics.html

Jesus fucking H Christ.

Has anyone ever benefitted from playing with Defoe ?


I'm sure this bollocks is just a media conspiracy by non spurs supporting hacks to fuck with our collective chi. Surely they should be writing about Moyes by now ?

 

[mpickard2087]

We have dropped off the last few games, so people commenting over the last page or so have already got their wish. Whilst we may have had marginally (and I mean marginally) more chances the number of chances the opposition has had has also increased. I think what people are basically saying is that they want end to end football, which might be nice for a few games if we don't lose... When we do I guarantee the same people will want to abandon it and push higher up the pitch again.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And just to add to that, I would like to see us play a little deeper, ceding a little possession if you will. Drawing teams out and hitting them on the counter will see our goal tally rise I reckon. We have the players to play this way, we have the ball winners and we have the pace and power to break out.

Play to the present squads strength for now - that would be my preference and message to AVB, for now at least.

Abso-bloody-exactly. No point in camping on the opposition's 18 yard line if we don't have the imagination to break down the inevitable banks of 4 defenders + 4/5 midfielders. Far better to step back a bit, draw the opposition out and then hit them when their usually-parked bus has left the depot. We don't have the imagination for option #1 in the side at the moment, due to a combination of personnel and coaching (in whatever weighting you prefer to apportion to each element), so let's try option #2 instead. Can't be any worse in terms of performances.

I hate to put a spanner in this master plan, but this is the exact methodology employed by the last regime that actually yielded less points than AVB is earning, and saw us fail to win 9 home games a couple of years ago ?

The trouble with "ceding possession" and in deeper areas is that actually means the opposition having it in our 3rd, which can (and often does) lead to them scoring, especially when some of your defenders aren't exactly brilliant.

We may not (yet) have the wit to fully capitalise on the high press, possession game, but we sure as shit don't have the defensive wit to survive the "invite them onto our box" game either.

Some of the stupid things our players are doing are not necessarily going to be improved by doing them on the break, which requires quick thinking and adroit skill's that frankly some of ours lack.

Why is there so much hand ringing going on ? AVB is not perfect, but he's basically nursing a team that has lost it's three best players and introduced 8-9 new ones whilst notching up points at a very respectable rate.

Has anyone considered that the way we are playing might just be the best way for the bunch of players we have right now, a team in transition, and that the alternative's might be worse ?