Ratings vs Everton

[Anurag Jo]

Fair enough. Oliver's still a **** though

Nah..best referee in the league I think.

 

[Mr Pink]

I've just watched it again, @steve is right (I missed this watching it live) if you look at 88.03 Son grabs the back of Stone's shirt. It's a fucking stupid thing to do because he has him squirming and it gets him off the hook.

I thought it was a poor decision a the time but it wasn't. I tend to agree with Steve as well about Oliver in general, I think he's better than some. He certainly hasn't annoyed me lately that I can remember. There's very little theatrics with him, he gets things wrong, but I don't notice the guy to much in games which is usually a good sign with refs.

I prefer Clattenburg and Mike Dean in truth.

Particularly Dean actually.

 

[Mr Pink]

Just watched it again, Son grabbed his shirt and Oliver saw it. I think he's comfortably one of the best referees Pinky.

And before I forget Steve how do you think Dembele is doing this season? Seeing as you ripped into me in the summer about wanting him in the first place.

Time for a wee slice of humble I reckon.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I prefer Clattenburg and Mike Dean in truth.

Particularly Dean actually.

Clattenberg is terrible. I don't mind Dean, he's a a bit of a showman but he's pretty fair about it.

 

[Mr Pink]

Clattenberg is terrible. I don't mind Dean, he's a a bit of a showman but he's pretty fair about it.

I didn't think he was great at all for some time but I've change my opinion on him recently. I know he's made some high profile mistakes but generally I think he's been pretty good in recent times,

Oliver I just think shows a poor overall understanding for the game from a players point of view - its the finer stuff where a good ref will do their utmost to let the game flow.

 

[diamond lights]

I think Clattenberg is the best there is at the minute . Don't know what I'm missing. He lets the game flow and seems to get on well with the players.

 

[Ionman34]

We have probably said that about every referee in this world.

Apart from Collins, the epitomy of the word superb when he reffed.

 

[Ionman34]

Apart from Collins, the epitomy of the word superb when he reffed.

That should be Collinni.

 

[steve]

And before I forget Steve how do you think Dembele is doing this season? Seeing as you ripped into me in the summer about wanting him in the first place.

Time for a wee slice of humble I reckon.

I 'ripped into you' because after hanging your hat very strongly on certain players over the years as necessity signings (McCarthy the most recent) you then told people not to do the same about another player. It was double standards and a few of us pulled you on it.

I used Dembele as one of the examples in order to highlight this, the point being not that you like certain players but that you like them to a degree that goes beyond what I think your knowledge of them is or for that fact what anyone's could be - how can someone know for sure that a player will be a success? There's too many variables, too many things that can go wrong. By all means rate certain players but maybe with a bit less conviction and with a more open mind. And don't pull others if they do the same as you.

As for Dembele I've been an advocate of his for the last few seasons as you'll know but he's hardly been a roaring success considering it's taken him 4 years to earn the accolades he's currently getting. And i'll never say 'if we don't sign player X, we're fucked'.

 

[Mr Pink]

I 'ripped into you' because after hanging your hat very strongly on certain players over the years as necessity signings (McCarthy the most recent) you then told people not to do the same about another player. It was double standards and a few of us pulled you on it.

I used Dembele as one of the examples in order to highlight this, the point being not that you like certain players but that you like them to a degree that goes beyond what I think your knowledge of them is or for that fact what anyone's could be - how can someone know for sure that a player will be a success? There's too many variables, too many things that can go wrong. By all means rate certain players but maybe with a bit less conviction and with a more open mind. And don't pull others if they do the same as you.

As for Dembele I've been an advocate of his for the last few seasons as you'll know but he's hardly been a roaring success considering it's taken him 4 years to earn the accolades he's currently getting. And i'll never say 'if we don't sign player X, we're fucked'.

I told other people not to do the same? No clue what you're talking about there. I didn't think Dier would work out in midfield but I was clearly wrong - at least I can admit when I'm wrong unlike some others on here.

Anyway its a forum but your rant was a bit unnecessary IMO.

 

[alexis]

Alli MOM for me. Alderweireld is so much better than I thought he'd be.

Anyone still think Son or Chadli can fill in for Kane?

Thought Besic made a big difference when he came on. Wouldn't mind him in a Spurs shirt.

He's a thug would prefer delofou

 

[kmk]

That should be Collinni.

I preferred Collina.

 

[Ionman34]

I preferred Collina.

That's the one.


Old age... Makes fools of us all.

 

[sloth]

All good, fair points that I accept and have tried repeatedly to acknowledge, but it seems no matter how many times I say or list the good qualities I like in Alli it has become "another one of BC's petty dislikes". I have repeatedly said that this is a really tough conundrum for me because as I said, even in the post you are quoting, it isn't the same as the Chadli scenario because he does get stuck in and does try to press and I acknowledge that at 19 he's got a shitload of potential to learn and improve facets of his game and has the right attitude to do so. I really can't ever see Alli playing as a "10" his attributes aren't what I see in a 10. He's like Fellani up there. Can be, and has been, effective but not what I want from a 10.

For me it's a different compromise and one more about getting the blend and balance better and more complimentary. A good conundrum rather than a bad one.

To accomodate Alli I think we'd need to play something like:

Alli Dier/Mason Bentaleb/Carroll/Onomah

Lamela Kane Eriksen/Son/Pritchard

Suggesting dropping Alli right now is heresy and most of SC would have me hung drawn a quartered but if we are not going to play 433 (and I doubt we are) I'd love to see a front 6 of for a couple of games:

Dier/Mason Bentaleb/Carroll

Lamela/Dembele Eriksen/Onomah Son/Pritchard (when fit)

Kane
​

I think that is a more diverse group, with a more varied range of skills. I think Eriksen was having his best season until Pochettino started fucking around and moving him left and right to accommodate Alli. As was Lamela, he'd started to score goals as well. And I think Son (and the stats back it up) has at least as many goals in him as Alli. But with that front four you have variety, tricky dribbling and craft of Lamela, the metronomity and composure of Eriksen, the pace and directness of Son and the all-round uberness of Kane leading the charge.

This is what gets me about you BC. You write a very fair and balanced opening couple of paragraphs, but then when it comes to picking players for the only formation we're likely to play in 99% of our matches, you choose 10 players who could play across five positions in CM and AM and not a single one of them is Alli. In fact you'd include Pritchard, Carroll, Mason, Bentaleb and Onomah ahead of Alli, despite only having seen some of them in cameos for the first team or at youth level or in the Championship. At the same time however, all through last year when Lamela was dwelling and dithering and not producing, you were signing his praises and saying how he should start every week because he had a good attitude off the ball.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

This is what gets me about you BC. You write a very fair and balanced opening couple of paragraphs, but then when it comes to picking players for the only formation we're likely to play in 99% of our matches, you choose 10 players who could play across five positions in CM and AM and not a single one of them is Alli. In fact you'd include Pritchard, Carroll, Mason, Bentaleb and Onomah ahead of Alli, despite only having seen some of them in cameos for the first team or at youth level or in the Championship. At the same time however, all through last year when Lamela was dwelling and dithering and not producing, you were signing his praises and saying how he should start every week because he had a good attitude off the ball.

You are being somewhat ridiculous and this is exactly the type of agenda driven drivel that I find so tedious.

Read what I am saying. I voiced an opinion. That opinion is that Alli does bring valuable qualities but in the 4231 system we play almost every week without fail (bar once in 18 months I think - Watford) I think those qualities have a trade off and there isn't a crystal clear specific role within it that maximises his strengths and minimises his weaknesses. He does not see enough ball, contribute enough in terms of dynamism (to not just bomb up, but bomb back and side to side continuously) and metronomically or have the stamina to go past 60 minutes playing as a CM2. I don't think he's quite right as a "10" or ACM either because his touch can be a bit heavy at times, he's a big athletic guy who doesn't always find the confined spaces of the opponents "D" and the intricacies and speed of thought required natural (but I'm not saying he hasn't done creative things either).

Which is why before suggesting line-ups without him, I suggested a format in which I felt he could be better accommodated - the 433 suggestion BEFORE the 4231's you whined about.

Perhaps you also missed the bit where I said, when referring to my suggestion for 4231 teams "I'd love to see a front 6 of for a couple of games" not "I'd love to see these teams - without Alli - for eternity".

I wouldn't necessarily include all or any of them over Alli, it depends what happens when Alli doesn't play and how the balance works, the performances etc. They were just suggestions, because I believe it is not always about cramming your perceived "best" eleven footballers on to the pitch. It is about finding the most symbiotic and harmonious balance and I think unless you believe nothing can be improved with us right now then you have to accept that trying something different might improve us. And as I said elsewhere, even then I don't believe you have to stick with the same balance for every game, you can tailor it to fit the opponent and their format and tactics.

As fort the cameos comment, it's again a bit purile and hypocritical. I've seen as much if not more of Onomah & Pritchard and loads more of Carroll, Bentaleb and Mason than I have of Alli. You are the one who is calling into question and scoffing at an opinion of some those players despite having seen very little of them. You need to watch them before ridiculing the idea of them playing.

As for Lamela, I stand firmly by anything of said about him. I've criticised his eratic-ness, his needless fouling and his sometimes wastefulness, but I've also praised the fact that last season he was still our most productive player in terms of assists, was the player that seemed to be the only one who created actual clear quality chances for people (such as the through ball he played for Alli against Norwich) when he played and that very importantly, no one in our front 4 carried out Pochettino's press tenaciously and win the ball back from the front ethos better than Lamela. In the same way that I have criticised Alli's bumbling as a 10, his lack of dynamism and ability to show and see enough ball as a CM, his failure to last past 60 mins most games (and acknowledged this could be age and getting used to the EPL) but also praised his character, his awareness, ability and timing to get himself into the box and produce goals, his willingness to get stuck in, his aggression.

If we were Real Madrid fans, I would be saying similar things about how they aren't going to accommodate Rodriguez, Bale, Ronaldo, Isco, Kovacic, Kroos, Benzema, Modric in the same front 6 and there is a lack of balance there and that is why they are not winning the league. In fact there were times when Bale was here I said he could do with being dropped to teach him that when he's having spells where he's not producing he needs to work for the team. Would you be accusing me of having an agenda against some of those Real players ?

 

[ShaunL84]

Why is Townsend being such a brat, he would be a better option than Son and Chadli coming off the bench.

Have to laugh at the amount of dislikes this post got, sums up some of our fan base who think Son and Chadli are better than Townsend.

 

[tiger666]

Have to laugh at the amount of dislikes this post got, sums up some of our fan base who think Son and Chadli are better than Townsend.

The vast majority of our fan base who know Son and Chadli are better than Townsend.