Ratings vs Everton

[dannythomas]

Don't actually agree that Dembele is our more advanced central midfielder. May just be down to playing style, but for me Wanyama has more of a box to box role and freedom to roam (especially vertically) both with and without the ball.

Not sure what it says about Dembele's physical state though when he is primarily sitting and got someone else doing the majority of the running, and yet is still getting withdrawn about the 75 mins mark most games. Must really need wrapping up in cotton wool.

Or maybe Poch wants Winks to get game time and feels that it would not disrupt the team pattern by taking off Dembele when he does that. Not sure if he's quite right in that belief because Winks is not as effective breaking up opposition attacks as Dembele.

 

[spurs9]

Depends who we bought I guess. I wouldn't be devastated if we sold him regardless, as I do think his importance to this side is over estimated and I think his influence is only going to diminish anyway, even this season he's looked less effective at doing the things he's good at IMO.

I actually want to see Eriksen play in the CM 2 more (when playing 3-4-2-1), so no need buy a CM IMO. I would rather see us bring in another AM that's creative and can dribble in tight spaces. Keep Dembele (unless we get a crazy offer) and just play him less, play Winks more than we do now, with Eriksen playing more and more in CM.

In the 2 games Eriksen played CM in 3-4-2-1, he scored 2 (only has 5 for the season) and 7 key passes (his average is 3 per game) and looked the player most like Modric since Luka left.

 

[tiger666]

In the 2 games Eriksen played CM in 3-4-2-1, he scored 2 (only has 5 for the season) and 7 key passes (his average is 3 per game) and looked the player most like Modric since Luka left.

What games were they?

 

[Flashspur]

Great game overall and the result flattered them. Kane MOM. Thought we lost control when Dembele went off and let them back into it. Winks is a different player and doesn't control the MF as much although that pass to Dele was sublime. Overall a great team performance and its good to see Ben Davies put in a good shift as well.

@DJS and @isaac94 can you please explain why you spammed my post?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I actually want to see Eriksen play in the CM 2 more (when playing 3-4-2-1), so no need buy a CM IMO. I would rather see us bring in another AM that's creative and can dribble in tight spaces. Keep Dembele (unless we get a crazy offer) and just play him less, play Winks more than we do now, with Eriksen playing more and more in CM.

In the 2 games Eriksen played CM in 3-4-2-1, he scored 2 (only has 5 for the season) and 7 key passes (his average is 3 per game) and looked the player most like Modric since Luka left.

I'm not convinced playing Eriksen in a CM2 would be right for every occasion (or most) and I like him much more in the 10/8 hybrid role he's playing lately in the 3421. He's not lazy off the ball, he presses well (probably better - or more intelligently - than any of our front group) but I'm not sure I want him shackled and water carrying for 90 minutes a game.

My ideal, if we are playing a CM2, is Wanyama and someone like Tolisso/Tielemans/Winks/Onomah (eventually) with Eriksen in that 10/8 hybrid role. Best of both worlds.

The other answer would be switch to a 433, to accommodate Eriksen as an "8", Alli and a pacey or creative dribbling AM/wide forward.

 

[archiewasking]

How come 2 of our 3 subs are in the poll? And Vinny the legend, aka the winner of the free kick for the 3rd goal, is not?

 

[archiewasking]

And 2 votes for SISSOKO???!!!

 

[DJS]

@DJS and @isaac94 can you please explain why you spammed my post?

How odd didn't spam it on purpose, re-read the post and it wasn't something I would rate spam. Maybe I was sleep-reading SC again.

Removed.

 

[DJS]

I actually want to see Eriksen play in the CM 2 more (when playing 3-4-2-1), so no need buy a CM IMO. I would rather see us bring in another AM that's creative and can dribble in tight spaces. Keep Dembele (unless we get a crazy offer) and just play him less, play Winks more than we do now, with Eriksen playing more and more in CM.

In the 2 games Eriksen played CM in 3-4-2-1, he scored 2 (only has 5 for the season) and 7 key passes (his average is 3 per game) and looked the player most like Modric since Luka left.

I don't recall Eriksen playing CM when we've played 3-4-2-1, I thought he always played alongside Dele supporting Kane?

 

[spurs9]

What games were they?

I don't recall Eriksen playing CM when we've played 3-4-2-1, I thought he always played alongside Dele supporting Kane?

V Hull - Alli and Sissoko as AMs
V Watford - Alli and Son as AMs

 

[whitesocks]

The Dembele after 55/60mins I can do without - he consistently just vanishes from the game and it is a relief when Winks comes on.
Before that he is a great asset, but he is playing a different role to last season.
Last year he would clock up high numbers of passes a game - nothing too exciting but would link up play very accurately.
This season Wanyama is central and he gets to play the square balls.
Dembele possibly does more carrying and running this season and maybe that's what's tiring him out.
Or maybe his hip injury (make your own joke here - I wouldn't dare...) is playing up again.

Oh it was me that voted Dier - although if someone can convince me it was him that fell asleep for the last goal, I might change that to Vertonghen

 

[spurs9]

I'm not convinced playing Eriksen in a CM2 would be right for every occasion (or most) and I like him much more in the 10/8 hybrid role he's playing lately in the 3421. He's not lazy off the ball, he presses well (probably better - or more intelligently - than any of our front group) but I'm not sure I want him shackled and water carrying for 90 minutes a game.

My ideal, if we are playing a CM2, is Wanyama and someone like Tolisso/Tielemans/Winks/Onomah (eventually) with Eriksen in that 10/8 hybrid role. Best of both worlds.

The other answer would be switch to a 433, to accommodate Eriksen as an "8", Alli and a pacey or creative dribbling AM/wide forward.

I'm not advocating it in every game, just the right ones, for example, against teams that park the bus, playing a kind of Modric/10 hybrid role (certainly not a water carrier). IMO, Eriksen is at his best when he can receive the ball facing the opposition goal and when he has pockets of space to move into, and playing him in CM, will give him more more time/opportunities for both.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm not advocating it in every game, just the right ones, for example, against teams that park the bus, playing a kind of Modric/10 hybrid role (certainly not a water carrier). IMO, Eriksen is at his best when he can receive the ball facing the opposition goal and when he has pockets of space to move into, and playing him in CM, will give him more more time/opportunities for both.

Still not in a CM2 for me. I'm just not sure he can switch to the defensive mindset or capabilities (dynamic tenacity) that a CM2 has to have. Like I said, he's not lazy, he will press, but he's not ever going to fly into a tackle when the situation calls for it either. And a CM2 has to have at least a bit of that in his make up IMO. He's also the only composed brain we have in advanced areas most of the time.

 

[dannythomas]

Still not in a CM2 for me. I'm just not sure he can switch to the defensive mindset or capabilities (dynamic tenacity) that a CM2 has to have. Like I said, he's not lazy, he will press, but he's not ever going to fly into a tackle when the situation calls for it either. And a CM2 has to have at least a bit of that in his make up IMO. He's also the only composed brain we have in advanced areas most of the time.

Kane has no brain ? Dele used his brain pretty well for our 3rd goal didn't he ? They seem to interchange and combine pretty effectively for 2 brainless forward players.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Kane has no brain ? Dele used his brain pretty well for our 3rd goal didn't he ? They seem to interchange and combine pretty effectively for 2 brainless forward players.

I said most of the time. If you watch the other 93 minutes of that game you will see lots of examples of a lack of a composed brain too. When you compare Eriksen to Kane or Alli there's a quantum difference in composure, what they bring is explosive moments in the box and a smattering of other things, some good some bad, the odd moment of real composure and quality, some huffing and puffing etc, What Eriksen does is see the ball much more than them, in many more areas of the pitch and when he's on the ball he's generally more intelligent and composed about what he does with it than those two who will fritter it away cheaply (i.e. even when Eriksen does cede possession it's invariably failing to execute an attempted incisive pass, or a through ball) whereas those two have a habit of just running into traffic (Kane) or trying a trick instead of just holding it and looking for an actual pass (Alli) and retaining poession and building the move.

I like what they all bring, but without Eriksen the other two would have no supply a lot of the time. He's the facilitator who keeps the spice flowing.

 

[mill]

Still not in a CM2 for me. I'm just not sure he can switch to the defensive mindset or capabilities (dynamic tenacity) that a CM2 has to have. Like I said, he's not lazy, he will press, but he's not ever going to fly into a tackle when the situation calls for it either. And a CM2 has to have at least a bit of that in his make up IMO. He's also the only composed brain we have in advanced areas most of the time.

It's more like bielsa's 3313 than the 3421 with eriksen deeper imo, against stronger teams it probably wouldn't be best option but at home against weaker teams who get behind the ball

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's more like bielsa's 3313 than the 3421 with eriksen deeper imo, against stronger teams it probably wouldn't be best option but at home against weaker teams who get behind the ball

Default without the ball I'd say it is more a 3421/3412. But it morphs into many things including 122221 ?? Here's whoscored's positional map, though this is influenced by positions in possession and territory etc of which we were superior.

:

Eriksen's touch map is very impressive:

Alli's:

Kane's:

 

[dannythomas]

I said most of the time. If you watch the other 93 minutes of that game you will see lots of examples of a lack of a composed brain too. When you compare Eriksen to Kane or Alli there's a quantum difference in composure, what they bring is explosive moments in the box and a smattering of other things, some good some bad, the odd moment of real composure and quality, some huffing and puffing etc, What Eriksen does is see the ball much more than them, in many more areas of the pitch and when he's on the ball he's generally more intelligent and composed about what he does with it than those two who will fritter it away cheaply (i.e. even when Eriksen does cede possession it's invariably failing to execute an attempted incisive pass, or a through ball) whereas those two have a habit of just running into traffic (Kane) or trying a trick instead of just holding it and looking for an actual pass (Alli) and retaining poession and building the move.

I like what they all bring, but without Eriksen the other two would have no supply a lot of the time. He's the facilitator who keeps the spice flowing.

Well, using old fashioned terminology, Eriksen is our schemer / playmaker. He is supposed to be composed . But that doesn't mean that Dele and Kane have no composed brains most of the time. Their job is to feed off passes from Eriksen and others and they do a pretty good job doing that. Yes occasionally they make wrong decisions but then so do their counterparts in almost every other EPL team. Kane would walk into any other team and Dele into most if not all. Picking on their wrong decision making is as incorrect as picking on Eriksen for often wasting set pieces . You could equally pick on Eriksen's miss after Kane's shot came to him when the keeper blocked it and say he lacked a composed brain and if that would have been Dele I imagine that's what you would have said.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well, using old fashioned terminology, Eriksen is our schemer / playmaker. He is supposed to be composed . But that doesn't mean that Dele and Kane have no composed brains most of the time. Their job is to feed off passes from Eriksen and others and they do a pretty good job doing that. Yes occasionally they make wrong decisions but then so do their counterparts in almost every other EPL team. Kane would walk into any other team and Dele into most if not all. Picking on their wrong decision making is as incorrect as picking on Eriksen for often wasting set pieces . You could equally pick on Eriksen's miss after Kane's shot came to him when the keeper blocked it and say he lacked a composed brain and if that would have been Dele I imagine that's what you would have said.

I think we are getting a bit over complicated now. I think you know what I am saying. Eriksen sees a shitload more of the ball than those two, and yet, still waists it much less. I appreciate they bring other qualities and it's a balance of qualities that makes for a good blend, but the point I was making is Eriksen brings that metronomic and much more consistent composure to our game play, and without him in that final third we'd be a pretty samey mixture of incoherent erratic-ness punctuated with (even fewer) moments of productive quality (Kane, Alli, Lamela, Son, Sissoko etc etc).

 

[mill]

Default without the ball I'd say it is more a 3421/3412. But it morphs into many things including 122221 ?? Here's whoscored's positional map, though this is influenced by positions in possession and territory etc of which we were superior.



View attachment 28834 :

Eriksen's touch map is very impressive:

View attachment 28835

Alli's:

View attachment 28836


Kane's:

View attachment 28837

I think you've completely missed the point, I'm talking about a bit of tactical diversity, I don't see how previous heat maps have anything to do with it, just cos heat maps place one line up in certain positions doesn't mean another line up has to match them. I find it very ironic u feel the need to pidgeon hole players by using heat maps when you preach tactical diversity like some kind of guru, horses for courses.