Match Ratings Ratings vs Newcastle

[mpickard2087]

Maddening. Infuriating. Worrying. Heart Attack inducing...... But eventually, just about, we have crawled over the line.

It’s been a stressful season, we’ve not performed as well as last season and the quality of football has dipped, but if at the start of this season you’d have offered me champions league qualification with our second highest premier league points total, an FA cup semi final and a decent showing in the champions league I’d have taken it.

Agree with this bit in particular. On paper, and especially considering our still recent past, this has been another season of achievement..... But inconsistency has been there, some standards have dropped (particularly in the work rate/team collective department), and, despite how good City have been and stormed away from everyone, I think that is the main reason we have gone from seriously challenging to win the League to 'only' fighting to secure a top four finish. A pat on the back for another season of CL football secured, and the consistency being shown in establishing ourselves as a club, but some things which we were doing haven't always been there this year, and need to be addressed for next year.

As for @Bus-Conductor 's post:

putting Sissoko into a CM2 behind fucking bumblers like Son, Alli and Kane who aren't pressing
or working without the ball properly, in a game of this importance was just fucking idiotic.

Yep. There is just too much carelessness with the ball there, even when in form rather than the present versions. And I have never seen a first half as utterly pointless as Sissoko's was, it was incredible, in terms of what he was doing. Just mainly dropping into a right sided position offering nothing and getting in the way of (for example) Sanchez passing to Trippier, and then without the ball taking up nothing positions to neither press nor cover. The guy just doesn't have any game intelligence, especially against teams who park the bus.

We've got 18yo kids in our academy who show less terror in their eyes at the thought of receiving the ball than Sissoko, you can see the judder of panic in his whole body, as if he's being thrown a live grenade, each time a team mate ignores his pointing plea to go elsewhere and insists on giving it to him. He should never be near a midfield at this level.

Indeed, and you can see the absolute effort and concentration he has to put into that jerky routine he goes through to try and control the ball...... All that effort just to see it bounce off his shin.

Kane was definitely tip of the shaft of shitness. The bloke touched the ball 34 times, was disspossessed or lost the ball 11, and completed 50% of 17 attempted passes. Yes, he scored the goal, took it well, but his completely inept performances are contributing massively to how we are playing as team right now. He's supposed to be the fulcrum, the leader of the press, and he's providing absolutely nothing in this respect and you could argue his goal is being offset by the detrimental effect his poor performances are having on the team as a group.

And this also. Saves me from writing my own thoughts. Thankfully he has enough talent that one time in the 90 minutes he managed to kick the ball in the direction he wanted it to go, but, even though he slightly (and only slightly) perked up in the second half, his all round game was still absolutely savage. For Spurs, good thing his season is coming to an end. For England, worrying times currently.

Lastly:

To add to the frustration of watching us bumble around chucking buckets of paper pretend water at the crowd whilst squirting water from button hole flowers, we had one of the season's ****iest refereeing performances and to complete the trifecta of ****yness, we had the king of pundit ****ery, Tony wanker Gale commentating.

Agree. Shit ref, even more shit emanating from the commentary box.

At least we can all breathe now. Bring on the World Cup.....


Lloris - Made a couple of good saves, but I thought his slide tackle with two Newcastle players right on the scene was his best work. Any outfield player would have been proud of that.

Trippier - Ok.

Sanchez - Ok. Some good bits of play intercepting the ball, couple of errors too though that nearly got punished. Must show a bit more composure getting the ball down sometimes.

Vertonghen - Slightly dodgy start. Solid after that.

Davies - Offered very very little going either way. Has regressed back to his old self in recent months.

Wanyama - Had a good first half hour or so, a little sloppy after that. Eventually hobbled off.

Sissoko - As said above, what he did in the first half I'd imagine would go down as one of the most pointless performances in the history of all football. Slightly better in the second half, slightly.....

Eriksen - Again not at his best, but in terms of technique and vision a diamond in amongst the turd.

Son - Terrible first half, improved slightly in the second, overall still way off the pace.

Alli - For about 75 minutes was far and away the worst player on the pitch, even with several others trying to stake a claim for that crown. Improved slightly in the latter stages and started dropping in and working hard, but, like Son, this just wasn't good enough overall.

Kane - Awful first half, the slightest of improvements in the second half - mainly due to kicking the ball in the top corner. The rest of his game, the barbaric first touch, the lack of strength/hold up play, the decision making, the half-arsed pressing... Turd.

Subs:
Lamela - Competent cameo.
Alderweireld - n/a.
Rose - Good burst into the box, in fact it was good movement/instinct, shame about the finish.....

 

[buttons]

This is about right for me.

I can't wait to have a fit DM back in the team though - as good as i think Jan/Sanchez have been throughout the season we've been badly exposed at the back against poor (but desperate) teams in the last few games. Sissoko doesn't fit there (nor is he a DM anyway (where does he fit??)) and Wanyama is very off the pace IMO and his distribution isn't up to scratch at the moment. Dier's distribution was similarly poor recently.

Put a Modric in alongside that DM role though and get Eriksen further up and that would help massively.

As much as I would love Modroc back, I think eriksen would be superb in that deeper role.

 

[brendanb50]

As much as I would love Modroc back, I think eriksen would be superb in that deeper role.

I can't tell if it happened by luck or design (MP's or Eriksen's) last night but against these deeper lying teams, I think there's definitely logic in bringing him deeper to dictate the tempo and putting another AM like Lamela or Lucas up the pitch.

However longer term, i'd like another player to come in and fill this role with Eriksen playing in his usual spot - his delivery in the final 3rd is of rare quality (free-kicks and maybe corners excluded at the mo!) and i think we'd miss his goal/assist contribution by moving him back over the course of a season.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

Not seen any of the game but wondered what everyone thought of Shelvey?
Chris Waddle keeps touting him for England, so wondered if he'd be any good for us, as the creative player alongside a fully functioning Wanyama (type)?

 

[dannythomas]

Basically the same this year as 2 years ago. When Dembele doesn’t play we see what he has brought to the team. There is nobody in midfield who can bully other teams, grab back possession and keep it. I don’t care what people say, they tend to bracket Dier and Dembele together when they are completely different. Yes, I would have loved Dembele to get forward more but he was given that DM role and freed up others, notably Eriksen and Dele, to do that. Now admittedly he is no longer the player he was and he hasn’t been for most of the season. He now loses possession too much and doesn’t have that bullying capability any more. But last night was a classic illustration of the hole he is leaving.

I know some , notably BC ,think Wanyama is the answer. But based on what we have seen from him this season he just doesn’t have that capability. He is a great squad player , as are Dier and Winks. But we should not underestimate what Dembele brought and replacing him is going to be extremely difficult. I hope he stays another year and plays a bit part role from the bench because he can still be very useful in managing the closing stages when we need to shut a game down. I think Wanyama will benefit from Dembele’s contributions if he is indeed the man Poch has in mind for stepping into his shoes.

 

[brendanb50]

Not seen any of the game but wondered what everyone thought of Shelvey?
Chris Waddle keeps touting him for England, so wondered if he'd be any good for us, as the creative player alongside a fully functioning Wanyama (type)?

He passed well, positively and got stuck in last night but for me, nothing revelationary just a tidy performance against our slightly cobbled together central midfield.

Without knocking him too badly, we do seem to lack a heads up, good creative passer for England. Not sure he's the answer and i don't think that he's actually been good enough across the season but who knows, he could be an option.

 

[brendanb50]

Basically the same this year as 2 years ago. When Dembele doesn’t play we see what he has brought to the team. There is nobody in midfield who can bully other teams, grab back possession and keep it. I don’t care what people say, they tend to bracket Dier and Dembele together when they are completely different. Yes, I would have loved Dembele to get forward more but he was given that DM role and freed up others, notably Eriksen and Dele, to do that. Now admittedly he is no longer the player he was and he hasn’t been for most of the season. He now loses possession too much and doesn’t have that bullying capability any more. But last night was a classic illustration of the hole he is leaving.

I know some , notably BC ,think Wanyama is the answer. But based on what we have seen from him this season he just doesn’t have that capability. He is a great squad player , as are Dier and Winks. But we should not underestimate what Dembele brought and replacing him is going to be extremely difficult. I hope he stays another year and plays a bit part role from the bench because he can still be very useful in managing the closing stages when we need to shut a game down. I think Wanyama will benefit from Dembele’s contributions if he is indeed the man Poch has in mind for stepping into his shoes.

He's the element i think we need a couple of options for ideally because i don't think we'll find another with his unique skillset. He's slowed up our play a bit in recent games but he breaks through lines in midfield and as you've said he allows Alli and Eriksen to play with more freedom. We missed this last night.

For me regardless we need an incisive passer who can dictate tempo and get us moving forward from deeper in the midfield (would have been a big help last night but Eriksen filled the void). Winks should be that option longer term but we'll see where he is after the injury.

I also think we need player who can play with some physicality/athleticism who also has a good technical game, maybe not as good a passer as the Eriksen role but i'm thinking someone quicker and more positive in their play than Dier/Wanyama (who are more DMs anyway) who can contribute at both ends of the pitch when needed. Just my ramblings anyway.

 

[Lighty64]

Alderweireld got the biggest cheer of the night. We’ll miss him.

the timing of Toby coming on was at the same time they showed Chelsea had drew with Huddersfield

 

['O Zio]

the 10 point lead we built after 30 games by beating them away had a lot to do with it. I wouldnt call that luck. We will likely finish at least 4 points above them.

I didn't say it was luck that we built up a 10 point lead, you're twisting my words completely. I said we've been lucky during this run in that even though we've dropped points and put in some really poor performances, other teams around us have dropped points as well.

 

[double0]

I think people need to get a bloody grip of themselves and appreciate the fantastic job Pochettinho has done and delivered (CL)

The performance wasn't great against Newcastle but we still won when the pressure was on and that is an achievement ladies and gentleman.

We know this squad has higher gears ie games against Madrid BM Juventus Liverpool Man United at Wembley.

The next challenge is to finish 2-3rd

 

[yiddopaul]

With that performance in the CL we won't go further than the group stage.

Well I doubt we'll perform like that next season in the CL. Why are some people defining Spurs by a couple of poor performances. Ridiculous.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

I can't tell if it happened by luck or design (MP's or Eriksen's) last night but against these deeper lying teams, I think there's definitely logic in bringing him deeper to dictate the tempo and putting another AM like Lamela or Lucas up the pitch.

However longer term, i'd like another player to come in and fill this role with Eriksen playing in his usual spot - his delivery in the final 3rd is of rare quality (free-kicks and maybe corners excluded at the mo!) and i think we'd miss his goal/assist contribution by moving him back over the course of a

The problem we've had in the past, looking for an Eriksen back-up, is that anyone we could afford would either be a huge gamble in terms of constancy (and they'd need to be consistent if we were bringing them on to change the game on the final 15), or they could get more playing time (and probably more money) at a mid table club.
So, if we're now looking for someone creative to play as well as Eriksen, in either deep lying or attacking midfield, that makes us a much more attractive proposition.

 

[Shadydan]

I didn't say it was luck that we built up a 10 point lead, you're twisting my words completely. I said we've been lucky during this run in that even though we've dropped points and put in some really poor performances, other teams around us have dropped points as well.

The problem with this 'luck' argument is that it suggests that we didn't deserve to win those matches which whatever way you look at it that is incorrect logic for a number of reasons and of course luck is relative, if we were lucky that Chelsea only drew to Huddersfield last night than they were lucky we picked up 0 points against West Brom for example.

 

[CheeseGromit]

I just dont believe fans understand the pressure on the players in last nights game.

Not only were they carrying the burden of expectation of every Spurs fan, team mates, staff and chairman they would have to live with the label of bottler for ever. If it had lost it would have destroyed some players careers.

It is almost impossible to play the same level throughout the season as there are many variables that affect performance. To have the inner strength to battle through bad periods is as important as being able to maximise the good times.

Poch would have learned bucket loads about his players over the last couple of weeks. The win at Chelski took the edge of their play as they sub-consciously thought that they had made it. Many dont understand what Poch means when he talks about Work in Progress. is not acquiring loads of new players of skills it is getting the majority to have a better game in them.

last night was not brilliant but hats off to them all for going out there and winning

 

[buttons]

I can't tell if it happened by luck or design (MP's or Eriksen's) last night but against these deeper lying teams, I think there's definitely logic in bringing him deeper to dictate the tempo and putting another AM like Lamela or Lucas up the pitch.

However longer term, i'd like another player to come in and fill this role with Eriksen playing in his usual spot - his delivery in the final 3rd is of rare quality (free-kicks and maybe corners excluded at the mo!) and i think we'd miss his goal/assist contribution by moving him back over the course of a season.

Hard to disagree! I was really surprised Poch didn’t try him deeper last night from the start, thought it was made for Lucas or Lamela to come in.

 

[wishkah]

For all future player ratings threads...

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Basically the same this year as 2 years ago. When Dembele doesn’t play we see what he has brought to the team. There is nobody in midfield who can bully other teams, grab back possession and keep it. I don’t care what people say, they tend to bracket Dier and Dembele together when they are completely different. Yes, I would have loved Dembele to get forward more but he was given that DM role and freed up others, notably Eriksen and Dele, to do that. Now admittedly he is no longer the player he was and he hasn’t been for most of the season. He now loses possession too much and doesn’t have that bullying capability any more. But last night was a classic illustration of the hole he is leaving.

I know some , notably BC ,think Wanyama is the answer. But based on what we have seen from him this season he just doesn’t have that capability. He is a great squad player , as are Dier and Winks. But we should not underestimate what Dembele brought and replacing him is going to be extremely difficult. I hope he stays another year and plays a bit part role from the bench because he can still be very useful in managing the closing stages when we need to shut a game down. I think Wanyama will benefit from Dembele’s contributions if he is indeed the man Poch has in mind for stepping into his shoes.

I’ve never said that Wanyama is the answer to the “8” question. I just don’t think Dembele has often been the answer to that question either.

Wanyama’s just a much better answer to the 6 question than Dier is. And he conclusively proved that last season.

A fit and firing Wanyama allows you to play a more progressive 8 and he also gives us a genuine double pivot option too.

Judging by that heavy strapping, Wanyama’s clearly been playing through pain. And having Sissoko in CM is always going to make, even this seasons empty husk of Dembele, seem preferable.

 

[dannythomas]

I’ve never said that Wanyama is the answer to the “8” question. I just don’t think Dembele has often been the answer to that question either.

Wanyama’s just a much better answer to the 6 question than Dier is. And he conclusively proved that last season.

A fit and firing Wanyama allows you to play a more progressive 8 and he also gives us a genuine double pivot option too.

Judging by that heavy strapping, Wanyama’s clearly been playing through pain. And having Sissoko in CM is always going to make, even this seasons empty husk of Dembele, seem preferable.

I agree with you about Dier. I think he is a much better defender than midfielder.

I know you are reluctant , as ever, to accept how important Dembele has been to the team when fit. You excuse Wanyama for his sub par performances because he has been injured ( even though you said he was really good against West Brom which is your view but not the view of many others ) . Yet you make no such allowances for Dembele who has , like Wanyama , been injured for significant parts of the season .

Of course Wanyama is younger so more likely to get back to his best. But as I said , let’s not underestimate how much we have missed the Dembele of past seasons and he is going to be really difficult to replace.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I agree with you about Dier. I think he is a much better defender than midfielder.

I know you are reluctant , as ever, to accept how important Dembele has been to the team when fit. You excuse Wanyama for his sub par performances because he has been injured ( even though you said he was really good against West Brom which is your view but not the view of many others ) . Yet you make no such allowances for Dembele who has , like Wanyama , been injured for significant parts of the season .

Of course Wanyama is younger so more likely to get back to his best. But as I said , let’s not underestimate how much we have missed the Dembele of past seasons and he is going to be really difficult to replace.

The problem is Dembele has struggled with his fitness almost from the moment we signed him. I accept this has unquestionably interfered with his career with us and impacted performances - even on good days he was frequently carted off because he'd run out of gas - but that is not my only issue with Dembele and never has been. His ability to robustly hold onto a football and pass it safely can be a real asset in certain games and certain phases of games, but there are games when we need at least one of our CM's to be more than just a really safe pair of boots. When we need some umph, some dynamism, tempo and incision.

And I accept he's played a part in some of this teams successes, but I think his importance is over emphasised by some. And that some also seem to completely ignore every bad game like last night when Dembele has payed, even though an identical one of them was two games ago against Watford.

 

[dannythomas]

The problem is Dembele has struggled with his fitness almost from the moment we signed him. I accept this has unquestionably interfered with his career with us and impacted performances - even on good days he was frequently carted off because he'd run out of gas - but that is not my only issue with Dembele and never has been. His ability to robustly hold onto a football and pass it safely can be a real asset in certain games and certain phases of games, but there are games when we need at least one of our CM's to be more than just a really safe pair of boots. When we need some umph, some dynamism, tempo and incision.

And I accept he's played a part in some of this teams successes, but I think his importance is over emphasised by some. And that some also seem to completely ignore every bad game like last night when Dembele has payed, even though an identical one of them was two games ago against Watford.

Yes, I agree Dembele’s level has dropped this season and he has played in some matches when not fit. Of course there have been some games over his Spurs career when his skill set have been more important than others , but I think you could say that about pretty much every player we have . I still hope we keep him for another season to come off the bench for those phases in matches that you mention. As we have seen there have been games when Kane has been totally ineffective and we looked better without him . The only 2 players we have who look “ irreplaceable “ right now are Eriksen and Vertonghen.

I’m sure you wouldn’t suggest Wanyama , even when 100 % fit , has skill sets vital every game. And I know you will always downplay how important the Dembele of the previous 2 seasons was to our success. Damning him with faint praise as they say.