Ratings vs Southampton

[JimmyG2]

Interesting that Dele makes the Guardian top 100 players in 2016 at 90
(chosen by 124 'experts') and Eriksen does not.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...est-footballers-in-the-world-2016-interactive
He is certainly more eye-catching than Eriksen and I like him very much
and think he will develop into a top, top player.
But if Dele did less nutmegging and fewer roulettes
and Eriksen a few more they might reverse positions.
Eriksen's contribution to the team in general play is crucial
as BC's statistics show.
but he is very unshowy, almost pedestrian and has a very self contained distracted air.
We are blessed to have two such quality players available.
Top 100 or not.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Eriksen v Alli is a bit of a pointless discussion as they play such different roles in our side. Alli is the spare man in our team, whether we play 352, 433 or 4231. He's there to react to the platform provided by other players. Eriksen, however, is one of those other players. Without him the ball just doesn't get from defence to attack fast enough. The only viable challenge to his function in the team is Winks.

 

[dudu]

I don't think it's such a fine line to be honest. His inability to just not fritter away possession cheaply is not a flip side of having fantastic instinct, it's just poor decision making.

I think there is absolutely no comparison with Eriksen whatsoever, because even on his worst days Eriksen is not contributing as little in terms of overall contribution to game play with the added negative of of frittering away possession in the most irritatingly cheap fashion.

I'd say I find it bazar the disparity in pundit fawn between Alli and Eriksen, but the truth is I don't, it's just typical of the English football man pundit's English bias toward any English kid who has some talent.

Right now you just cannot compare what Eriksen brings to what Alli brings. Eriksen is far more productive and has a much bigger influence on us as a team than Alli does.

View attachment 27717


Even their goals (which I couldn't fit into my screen grab) Alli is only 0.40 to Eriksen's 0.30. And that's only because of wednesday night.

Last season was the same:

View attachment 27718


Saying Alli's failings reminds you of Eriksen's is a pretty lame and lazy comparison IMO. Even on days when Eriksen isn't making goals and chances for people, he's still getting through a hell of a lot more of the ball than Alli ever does, and he is the best "user" of a football we have, quite simply he is our most creatively influential player by a mile, in terms of game play, build up, spark and end product as a package.

This isn't me saying Alli is shit. I think he is a very talented boy with that rare gift of instinct and character to go with it, and if he develops his game and finds a true role in which to bring out his best qualities, he has a very bright future, but all I'm saying is the disparity between opinion and reality on here and in punditry land between Eriksen and Alli is stark and Eriksen gets a pretty raw deal.

Interesting response that has very little to do with what I said but I appreciate you like to drive your point home just in case anyone was unclear about where you stand on Alli.

What i said was that when eriksen is at his worst and having a bad game I still appreciate what he is trying to achieve regardless of how badly what he is trying to do comes off. End product or not. I was talking about a feeling I get - not how I rate each other's failings.

Take the game at Wembley vs BL.

Eriksen was awful. I mean a lot of people were but nothing Eriksen tried would come off for him.... 72% pass completion is diabolical for someone like him ..... I remember a good few of his wayward passes from deep trying to release us and despite them failing I was appreciative of the effort and vision in trying to spark something into life for us.

I love Eriksen and think he is a phenomenal talent without who we would look very lost at times. He doesn't get a raw deal from me at all.

 

[steve]

The reason Dele Alli keeps losing the ball is exactly the same reason that he scores so many goals. He takes chances. He does the audacious things. He picks the low-percentage, high-reward option.

At 20, this means that he loses the ball, showboats, creates avoidable confrontations and often makes himself look like a prat. But I imagine that Pochettino understands that absolutely the worst approach he could take to coaching Dele would be to get him to hesitate and think before trying something outrageous. One might as well have tried to stifle Gascoigne and get him to follow strict instructions - it would have been just as stupid.

A good team consists of a variety of personalities. You have to have the controlling, reliable players (Dier, Alderweireld), the energetic, fiery players (Rose, Walker, Lamela), the players who have a vision of the whole pitch in their heads (Eriksen), the powerful players (Wanyama, Dembélé, Sissoko) and the the hard-working, indefatigable players (Rose, Walker, Kane, Lamela).

One of the things that turns a good side into a great one is having an unpredictable player, one who turns up where no one expects him, does the unanticipated thing and takes risks. That's Dele. Cajoling him into reliability over the next couple of seasons, without reducing the characteristics that make him unique, especially his impulsiveness, will be a coaching task of extreme delicacy. If it works, he could become one of the all-time great footballers.

You make it sound like he's always trying the audacious things but it's not quite that simple in my opinion. He doesn't give the ball away more than others ONLY because he picks the low percentage, high reward option - his first touch and control let him down or he'll take a sloppy second or third touch when running with the ball or misplace a simple pass. Technically he's not in Gascoigne's league and I think it's way off to suggest he'll become one of the all time great footballers because his all round technical skill set isn't of the required quality.

Like I said his mental strength and confidence are extremely rare for players of any age - he doesn't hide from the ball, will make intelligent runs, is not afraid to try the audacious as you said and most importantly doesn't let his mistakes affect him - he'll just get on with it and forget it even happened which makes him a very rare beast indeed. Add that to an athletic physique and decent technical ability and you have a very good player on your hands BUT one that can get better if he can refine his decision making.

You're right that Poch needs to balance his management of him correctly but his first task is to do the best for Spurs and if Alli is suffering a loss of form or having a piss poor game then I have no problem with Poch hooking him or giving him a boot up the arse when he deserves it.

 

[yusrisafri]

You make it sound like he's always trying the audacious things but it's not quite that simple in my opinion. He doesn't give the ball away more than others ONLY because he picks the low percentage, high reward option - his first touch and control let him down or he'll take a sloppy second or third touch when running with the ball or misplace a simple pass. Technically he's not in Gascoigne's league and I think it's way off to suggest he'll become one of the all time great footballers because his all round technical skill set isn't of the required quality.

Like I said his mental strength and confidence are extremely rare for players of any age - he doesn't hide from the ball, will make intelligent runs, is not afraid to try the audacious as you said and most importantly doesn't let his mistakes affect him - he'll just get on with it and forget it even happened which makes him a very rare beast indeed. Add that to an athletic physique and decent technical ability and you have a very good player on your hands BUT one that can get better if he can refine his decision making.

You're right that Poch needs to balance his management of him correctly but his first task is to do the best for Spurs and if Alli is suffering a loss of form or having a piss poor game then I have no problem with Poch hooking him or giving him a boot up the arse when he deserves it.

Absolutely spot on about his lack of basic tehcnical skill and his high level of confidence

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Absolutely spot on about his lack of basic tehcnical skill and his high level of confidence

He touch may often be sloppy, but saying he lacks 'basic technical skill' is ludicrous.

 

[glospur]

Considering he's got no technical skill it makes scoring that goal at Palace all the more special.

That is a genuinely garbage assessment.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Eriksen v Alli is a bit of a pointless discussion as they play such different roles in our side. Alli is the spare man in our team, whether we play 352, 433 or 4231. He's there to react to the platform provided by other players. Eriksen, however, is one of those other players. Without him the ball just doesn't get from defence to attack fast enough. The only viable challenge to his function in the team is Winks.

It's not about Eriksen v Alli so much as Eriksen perception v Alli perception. That is the issue I was really addressing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Interesting response that has very little to do with what I said but I appreciate you like to drive your point home just in case anyone was unclear about where you stand on Alli.

What i said was that when eriksen is at his worst and having a bad game I still appreciate what he is trying to achieve regardless of how badly what he is trying to do comes off. End product or not. I was talking about a feeling I get - not how I rate each other's failings.

Take the game at Wembley vs BL.

Eriksen was awful. I mean a lot of people were but nothing Eriksen tried would come off for him.... 72% pass completion is diabolical for someone like him ..... I remember a good few of his wayward passes from deep trying to release us and despite them failing I was appreciative of the effort and vision in trying to spark something into life for us.

I love Eriksen and think he is a phenomenal talent without who we would look very lost at times. He doesn't get a raw deal from me at all.

But that was the point I was making. Eriksen's bad games get nowhere near the depths of the infuriating well that Alli's plunge and if I was labouring any point it was that.

It felt to me like you were excusing Alli's carelessness by comparing it with what Eriksen does but I think it's a totally bogus (dude) comparison as Eriksen rarely just continually fritters away possession cheaply, at worst he still works much harder to make himself available and provide a conduit for gameplay but the through balls or incisive things he tries fail, whereas Alli, on a bad day, of which there are many, sees about half as much ball and just fucks away possession very cheaply, not extravagantly trying something wonderful.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

He touch may often be sloppy, but saying he lacks 'basic technical skill' is ludicrous.

Considering he's got no technical skill it makes scoring that goal at Palace all the more special.

That is a genuinely garbage assessment.

I don't think that's what @yusrisafri meant. I think he means there are times when Alli's technique lets him down, and it does, and that is what I've alluded to when talking about him developing composure.

I've seen Walker do some very technique-y things but you put him under pressure and he can go to pieces and trip over the fucking ball or just whack a cross at the defender.

Having technique is a given at this level. Having the composure and cognitive ability to apply it - consistently- under pressure is a different issue and is as much a mental thing as a physical one.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

It's not about Eriksen v Alli so much as Eriksen perception v Alli perception. That is the issue I was really addressing.

I certainly agree that Eriksen is given a rough time by our fans. The guy has consistently provided goals and assists on a regular basis since signing, better than 1 in 2 actually. Dele is comparable but of course doesn't offer the same awareness and intelligence on the ball. Lamela is far worse in terms of goals/ assists combined, and also does far less for us with the ball, yet is perceived by many as vital to us.

This isn't to criticise Lamela or Alli, but to realise that Eriksen is integral to anything good we do.

With all three it's worth remembering their ages. Alli is just 20, and Lamela/ Eriksen will finish the season as 25 year olds which for their style of player is still short of their prime by a good couple of years.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I certainly agree that Eriksen is given a rough time by our fans. The guy has consistently provided goals and assists on a regular basis since signing, better than 1 in 2 actually. Dele is comparable but of course doesn't offer the same awareness and intelligence on the ball. Lamela is far worse in terms of goals/ assists combined, and also does far less for us with the ball, yet is perceived by many as vital to us.

This isn't to criticise Lamela or Alli, but to realise that Eriksen is integral to anything good we do.

With all three it's worth remembering their ages. Alli is just 20, and Lamela/ Eriksen will finish the season as 25 year olds which for their style of player is still short of their prime by a good couple of years.

Yeah, I think Lamela's contribution/compromise is a much better comparison with Alli than either of those with Eriksen (@dudu)

 

[dudu]

But that was the point I was making. Eriksen's bad games get nowhere near the depths of the infuriating well that Alli's plunge and if I was labouring any point it was that.

It felt to me like you were excusing Alli's carelessness by comparing it with what Eriksen does but I think it's a totally bogus (dude) comparison as Eriksen rarely just continually fritters away possession cheaply, at worst he still works much harder to make himself available and provide a conduit for gameplay but the through balls or incisive things he tries fail, whereas Alli, on a bad day, of which there are many, sees about half as much ball and just fucks away possession very cheaply, not extravagantly trying something wonderful.

I was predominantly talking about the times he is attempting something unexpected that doesn't come off and how that makes me feel in comparison to when Eriksen tries something expected that doesn't come off. Both frustrate and encourage me.

I am completely with you regarding actual end product - The two are not comparable in that respect yet

 

[dudu]

Yeah, I think Lamela's contribution/compromise is a much better comparison with Alli than either of those with Eriksen (@dudu )

Agreed.

 

[stevespurs]

Most games Eriksen will do something that makes me buzz.

Whether it's a turn, a pass, a flick....but never a corner.

I do enjoy what he does. Superb vision and first touch.

Alli is exciting too, great vision, such a johnny on the spot, and does try and make things happen. But his first and second touch is fairly average, and maybe will never be good.

Basic fundamentals are set up very young, and although he has some excellent advanced skill, probably never have that silky first touch.

We are blessed to be able to watch these two in the lilywhite. We have seen some greats over the years and Eriksen is top drawer too. I hope Alli can join him up there too.