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Ratings vs Sunderland

MOTM

  • Vorm

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • Walker

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Toby

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • Rose

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wanyama

    Votes: 25 16.1%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 65 41.9%
  • Eriksena

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • Dele

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Son

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Davies

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • Janssen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 48 31.0%

  • Total voters
    155

Shea

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2013
7,711
10,930
Vorm 5 not really tested by some of his kicking was dodgy
Walker 4 did nothing and his throw in bs was ridiculous
Dier 6 Solid enough
Toby 6 as above
Rose 6 Was playing well as usual and his coming off was a major blow
Dembele 6 He was good in himself, but too slow with the ball and added to our inability to create
Wanyama 6 strong and solid, played well but missed a glorious chance, our only chance
Alli 4 did nothing, literally
Eriksen 5 probably had the most opportunities to make something happen, but made nothing happen
Son 5 was really poor, some of his touches were terrible, he frequently ran the wrong way and made the wrong decision. But he played the one pass in the entire game that created a chance and should have had an assist to his name had Wanyama not headed over some how
Kane 5 Completely isolated, played one dangerous ball in to the box but was generally invisible

Davies 4 we need someone who can replicate what Rose brings us as our back up LB. he doesn't have the right skill set.
Sissoko 3 everything he touched turned to shit, he looked like an African player who'd blagged a transfer by pretending to be the cousin of George Weah or the bastard son of Tony Yeboah. He is a terrible signing and Newcastle must still be laughing in disbelief at the fee we paied them
Janssen What was the point of bringinging him on so late? either do it when he has a chance to affect the game or don't waste his or our time

Overally it was completely abject - forget about talk of a title challenge. Teams who win titles can't afford to miss chances like we did today. More so the manner of how we dropped points is the real disappointment, we didn't come up against a Sunderland team with backs to the wall defending for their lives as we threw wave after wave of attack at them. We created one chance all game and they were very comfortable, I feel we could have played for another 90 mins without scoring or even registering another meaningful effort at goal

It was quite simply not good enough
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,980
28,117
Very poor performance. Little effort shown. Dembele probably MOTM.

Not sure why Poch is waiting until 85 minutes to bring Janssen on...surely this is the type of game he would fit right in for. We know Sissoko is not going to change a thing or make anything amazing happen...at least Big Vinny offers something different. And finally maybe a bit of confidence after getting the goal and an assist at the weekend.

Just don't get it...

Its because he doesn't trust him at the moment.

Which is fucking worrying as he's Kane understudy.
 

Armstrong_11

Spurs makes me happy, you... not so much :)
Aug 3, 2011
8,608
19,291
Toby motm for me, solid game, a couple of good blocks in on Defoe, didn't do much wrong.
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
Vorm 6 - 6 by default had nothing to do

Walker 6 - tried but took to long to cross

Dier 5 - looked shakey and rushed by JD at times

Toby 6 - seemed unsure on the left hand side think we lost his passing range as he couldn't do the right to left diagonal to rose

Rose N/a - weird injury then seemed to lay down nobody came to treat him then suddenly decided nah fuck this im coming off

Davies 4 - not even his fault he just looks so slow and awkward because we are so used to rose would be a starting left back for 80% of the league but he just looks a few levels below rose due to his lack of dynamism.

Wanyama 6 - done all he could and what he needed to do should have scored with the header but hey ho.

Dembele 9 until Rodwell kicked him then 4 from there afterwards went into a shell and seemed to be worried of getting hurt.

May I add was never a red card for Rodwell either guys cynical yes but was a foul you expect a player to do in that situation.

Son 3 - how obvious is his tactic when he plays on the left lol just cuts in every time doesn't even try to vary it. His first touch is awful for a footballer that practices every day too.

Alli 3 - lost the ball countless times didn't realise he was on the pitch until he lost the ball ans I would lose my shit with him as he was losing it so easy.

Eriksen 5 - he tried to create stuff but his team mates were static and ponderous which left him playing percentage balls

Kane 3 - awful didn't even have his usual work rate.

Sissoko - for 30 million I would like just a smudging of technical ability instead of a bull dozer that's going down hill with no breaks

Janssen - he actually wobbled when he came on the pitch lol not sure if it was the skin tight under armour before his shirt went on or if he just is fat lol
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,170
Vorm - 5.125

Rose - NET
Alderweireld - 5.01
Dier - 4.87
Walker - 0.26

Dembele - 7.77
Wanyama - 5.6

Son - 0.143. If you are reading this Son, you are a fucking 당신은 오줌을 먹고 개를 먹어요.
Eriksen - 2.45
Alli - 1.43

Kane - 0.43

Ben Davies - 0.00
Moussa Sissoko - -0.32
This is why I don't read The Financial Times
 

UpTownSpur

Says it like it is
Dec 31, 2014
2,266
4,362
Vorm 6 - 6 by default had nothing to do

Walker 6 - tried but took to long to cross

Dier 5 - looked shakey and rushed by JD at times

Toby 6 - seemed unsure on the left hand side think we lost his passing range as he couldn't do the right to left diagonal to rose

Rose N/a - weird injury then seemed to lay down nobody came to treat him then suddenly decided nah fuck this im coming off

Davies 4 - not even his fault he just looks so slow and awkward because we are so used to rose would be a starting left back for 80% of the league but he just looks a few levels below rose due to his lack of dynamism.

Wanyama 6 - done all he could and what he needed to do should have scored with the header but hey ho.

Dembele 9 until Rodwell kicked him then 4 from there afterwards went into a shell and seemed to be worried of getting hurt.

May I add was never a red card for Rodwell either guys cynical yes but was a foul you expect a player to do in that situation.

Son 3 - how obvious is his tactic when he plays on the left lol just cuts in every time doesn't even try to vary it. His first touch is awful for a footballer that practices every day too.

Alli 3 - lost the ball countless times didn't realise he was on the pitch until he lost the ball ans I would lose my shit with him as he was losing it so easy.

Eriksen 5 - he tried to create stuff but his team mates were static and ponderous which left him playing percentage balls

Kane 3 - awful didn't even have his usual work rate.

Sissoko - for 30 million I would like just a smudging of technical ability instead of a bull dozer that's going down hill with no breaks

Janssen - he actually wobbled when he came on the pitch lol not sure if it was the skin tight under armour before his shirt went on or if he just is fat lol

Can't agree with that. He was mostly on the right in the first half and was poor. He switched to the left in the 2nd half and looked the player most likely to make something happen. Doesn't cut inside all the time at all. Goes both ways and is difficult to play against. Wrong decision by Poch to start him on the right and wrong decision to take him off.
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,758
2,813
Shit performance by everyone. Dembele and Wanyama were average, better than the rest but I wouldn't give either MOTM for 5 out of 10 performances. Probably Toby with 6 .
The rest : Nobody more than 4. I still prefer the 3 man CD with wing backs.
On second thoughts I would give Gomes,, Capoue and Kaboul joint MOTM for lifting us to second place. Bet they all enjoyed that one.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
I had a feeling this would happen. It's becoming a trend now, the first team has a week off and come back sluggish. It's happened after every international game and it happened today.

It's almost as if they have goldfish memories, go away for a week then come back strangers. When we have games coming up thick and fast our play seems to go from strength to strength, with momentum building.

Infuriating really.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,891
32,571
Let's get some perspective out of the way first: You drop unexpected and disappointing points over the course of the season, we're still on a pretty good run, rival teams dropped points tonight, and we've even gone up to 2nd in the table. It's not a catastrophe...

Now that's done, let's focus on this match and the performance. It won't take too long to analyse it. Simply it can be summed up as insipid. Or flat. Or boring. Dull. Bland. Tame. Plodding. Uninspiring. Anaemic. Pedestrian. Lacklustre. And so on, take your pick of labels.

I see a lot of people blaming the reversion to 4-2-3-1, personally I don't think Poch had a shocker in that aspect. Would three centrebacks have left us more fluid against the parked bus? I doubt it. On paper the additional attacking/goal threat of Son made more sense against a team that has been pretty weak this season. Unfortunately they picked a night to show a bit of resolve, whilst we badly misfired and individuals just didn't get going.

Where I am going to have a little moan at Poch though is the bench. Yes he/some of you will say he hasn't a million options to work with and how dare we criticise, but if things weren't going well (as they didn't) I don't see how he thought he could change it. Two centre backs plus a defensive fullback the main crime, plus a target man and then the worlds most expensive (and currently poorest performing) one dimensional bulldozer. If things aren't going well at least have something different, a flair player, a wildcard, to get the senses heightened in anticipation that maybe, just maybe, something might happen... An Nkoudou (as much as I haven't been impressed so far), an Edwards, fuck it even an Oduwa. With that bench apart from Winks busyness there were no signs of life to shake us from the malaise.

I don't think we even really threatened to win that match in the end, fucking hell that was tedious.


Vorm - Some iffy distribution at times. Gratefully accepted Borini's wasted chance into his arms, apart from that very little to do.

Walker - Some huff and puff. Little to show for it.

Dier - Ok, little required of him.

Alderweireld - Ok. Once again though I am going to say that I don't think he looks fully mobile yet and seems to have reinvented himself as a primarily left footed player. Is the right leg still bothering him?

Rose - Also huffed and puffed to varying degrees of success before his untimely departure.

Wanyama - Did a perfectly satisfactory job but was both he and Dembele required in the middle of the park, especially as the game wore on?

Dembele - See above. Hard to really criticise, did what was needed, but this didn't aid our quest to find the breakthrough.

Eriksen - One of his quieter games, mostly saw the ball too deep in unthreatening areas.

Alli - Varied between poor and catastrophic at times.

Son - You can't fault how busy he is and that he gets into promising positions, but the goodwill doesn't last long when he wastes and wastes and wastes. Must do better.

Kane - Let's be honest, that was fairly pathetic. Had too many of these games this season in my opinion, whether he's scored goals or not. I want the guy who ran through brick walls for the team and played like his life depended on it when he first came into the team back.

Subs:
Davies - Plodmeister General.

Sissoko - Don't get me started...

Janssen - Sure he thanked Poch immensely for that 5 min cameo when we had ran out of ideas and been reduced to whacking head high (and above) balls vaguely in the direction of our forwards.


Man of the match though goes to my good self. My decision to forgo my usual freebie to this fixture was definitely the wisest and best decision making on evidence tonight...
 

nightgoat

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
24,604
21,898
Dembele, walker and big vic were above average, the rest need to have a long hard look at themselves. Just did not want to be there by the looks of them.

So glad we rested everyone for this (y)

Wanyama also managed to not get a free header from about six yards out on target, our only good chance of the game.
 

ajspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2007
23,213
31,539
Vorm - 6 Had little to do but did nothing wrong in what he did have to.

Rose - No score

Dier - 6 Fairly solid, can look a bit sluggish at times though.

Toby - 6 Somehow got outmuscled by Defoe in a dangerous position early on but the rest was ok. Distribution doesn't seem as great as it used to at the moment for me though.

Walker - 6 Got forward well but didn't actually offer anything productive once there, he at least tried to force something.

Wanyama - 7 Solid display once again, just frustrating to see him ever take a shot!

Dembele - 8 Best player for us by far, for someone who's considered a bit too casual and easy going a lot we may have gotten something if everyone showed the same desire, drive and willingness as him today.

Alli - 3 Very poor today, barely noticed him but when I did he tried a few flicks that lost us possession and a few of his simple passes didn't find his man either, offered absolutely nothing today.

Son - 5 Offered energy and tried to beat his marker but never got anywhere today, the somewhat seemingly regular poor touches were present again too. He was pretty poor but probably the best of our attacking players which says it all.

Eriksen - 4 Really poor today too, he at least tried to get on the ball unlike Alli but his distribution was awful, very wasteful.

Kane - 3 Just not existent today, added absolutely nothing and needs to put himself about more in games like these. Onomah could have played up front tonight and it would have appeared no different and that's no exaggeration whatsoever. Got laughed at for suggesting Janssen should replace him but at least Janssen would have been out there fighting the fuckers if not anything else.

Subs:

Davies - 5 Just doesn't offer anything near what Rose does, looks annoying flimsy at times too.

Sissoko - 4 Just not what we needed today, brainless running was the last thing we needed in a match like this.

Janssen - No score.
 

nightgoat

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
24,604
21,898
I see a lot of people blaming the reversion to 4-2-3-1, personally I don't think Poch had a shocker in that aspect. Would three centrebacks have left us more fluid against the parked bus? I doubt it. On paper the additional attacking/goal threat of Son made more sense against a team that has been pretty weak this season. Unfortunately they picked a night to show a bit of resolve, whilst we badly misfired and individuals just didn't get going.

Where I am going to have a little moan at Poch though is the bench. Yes he/some of you will say he hasn't a million options to work with and how dare we criticise, but if things weren't going well (as they didn't) I don't see how he thought he could change it. Two centre backs plus a defensive fullback the main crime, plus a target man and then the worlds most expensive (and currently poorest performing) one dimensional bulldozer. If things aren't going well at least have something different, a flair player, a wildcard, to get the senses heightened in anticipation that maybe, just maybe, something might happen... An Nkoudou (as much as I haven't been impressed so far), an Edwards, fuck it even an Oduwa. With that bench apart from Winks busyness there were no signs of life to shake us from the malaise.

Wanyama - Did a perfectly satisfactory job but was both he and Dembele required in the middle of the park, especially as the game wore on?

Dembele - See above. Hard to really criticise, did what was needed, but this didn't aid our quest to find the breakthrough.

Totally agree. The performance wasn't due to the formation. Sunderland had ten days to prepare for this game, as well as having their best defender back, and it showed. Only three of our players' average positions were in our own half. Sunderland played for a point, we couldn't break them down. What we needed was someone to move the ball quickly in midfield, like Winks.

Even then, you have to be concerned when your only attacking options from the bench are Sissoko and Janssen. Taking off Son when he was looking our most threatening forward was baffling.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,883
9,069
I said beforehand I thought this would be a tough game. But I hate to say it, our performance was t*rd. None deserved.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
What a fucked up and messy game. Lawro was closer in his predictions than all of you who were cursing him.

It really pisses me off when the likes of Davies and Wanyama trying long range shots when there are better options.

John O'shea Dembele my MOTM

the thing that annoyed me tonight was on 3 or 4 occasions Dembele had the chance to shift and hit it. I know going by his past he doesn't have many goals for us, but he does have a good left peg on him.

after Kane's last 2 performances I'm starting to think he is having some sleepless nights, because he looks less energetic this last 2 weeks than he did when struggling at the start.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I know nights like tonight are hard to endure, and facets of our tactical set up and individual performance weren't great, that's true, but I think we have to give some credit to Sunderland as well, they managed to do what better teams than them haven't over the last couple of months, they worked their nuts off and were effective. It wasn't just all about us being inept and wasteful, we've been that plenty and still got more out of games, it was about them really not allowing us to gather any real fluency.

I think it was a mistake to not play the 3331 tonight as I think we were too easily funnelled narrow, and if we weren't going to go with the 3, then I don't really understand why we didn't play Wimmer at LCB, the balance and passing of a natural LCB could just have helped us beat their squeeze at times, instead we were hesitant at the back and slow to play out and along with Dembele having one of his "dribbling" nights, Kane and Alli having abysmally insipid nights, there was none of that lovely West Brom tempo to anything we did. Combined with Sunderland's tactics and application we had plenty of ball, but there was very little rhythm with it, or cohesion without it.

The criticism of Eriksen in the match thread befuddles me. In a match like this no-one shone, no-one, but at least he showed up, constantly took up positions, finding space as an outlet and looked for the ball, tried to spark something, contributed something, he made 56 passes to Alli's 26, Kane made fucking 7. I don't expect Kane to make 56, but he has to contribute more than he did tonight, and this is not the first time, his general play has been pretty poor all season.

If Janssen had put in a performance like that I'd have @jonathanhotspur hotspur telling me he's broken and needs to be sent to the fucking glue factory. The truth is Kane's performances have generally been no better than Janssen's for much of this season and I'm pretty sure if Janssen had been indulged the way Kane has (rightfully to a degree, because he is definitely the better of the two on a good day) throughout this season, he'd have a few more notches on the bedpost to go with the Kane-esque huffing and puffing. It's not a catastrophe if Kane's gets hauled off for being poor, every once in a while, it might just have a positive effect.

If Poch hadn't dropped a bit of a section bollock from the get go, we could perhaps have had a more attacking options on the bench - instead we end up with 3 defenders, one CM and only 2 attackers (well, one attacker and one combine harvester with chipped turbo engine). Surely Davies can cover LCB and LB ?

Son is Son, yes he was frustrating at times, but he was far more involved and playing far better than either Alli or Kane, and taking him off definitely didn't improve things. Poor choice IMO.

I think, second league game running Poch didn't get things quite right tactically - before and during - and it contributed to our malaise.

Individual

Vorm - OK

Walker - Another poor night from the best RB in the universe.

Dier - Not great.

Alderweireld - very uncharacteristically uncomfortable at times, but I think that was partly due to Poch playing him at LCB.

Davies - He did try to get involved and was defensively OK, but nothing outstanding.

Wanyama - OK

Dembele - He wasn't terrible, he did some good things, but on a night like to tonight his wanting to take too many touches at times just contribute to the quagmire.

Alli - Not great.

Eriksen - Was heavily involved, keeps showing and moving the ball, but couldn't manage anything very incisive.

Son - I actually thought he should have been left on. Yes he can make simple things look like the Krypton factor at times, but he was at least providing some impetus, some lively directness.

Kane - Yes Sunderland did a job, yes it was a tough night to be a striker with creativity severely hampered but he's got to offer more.
 
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