Retrospective

[Bus-Conductor]

Having just watched some of it again I spotted a fantastic interception/tackle by Zokora on 67.10 minutes. Takes the ball off lampard in the box. This was DM-ing at it's very best. Check it out.

 

[PLTuck]

Eek What comparison? Not as players surely?

No just the 'look', socks down, tanned legs.

 

[Legend10]

I've not been a fan of Zokora but I have to say I thought that he was immense on Sunday.

Sure he made some errors but overall him and JJ were unbelievable, those 2 basically took on the Chelsea 3 in the middle of the park. They got some help with a dropping Keane but for the main until the Hudd appeared they had to deal with 3. They done an amazing job of it and didn't allow Chelsea to play through midfield at all.

Just an aside but in the last 5 minutes of extra time JJ, Zokora & Lennon all made 60 yard sprints as if the game had just kicked off! Their fitness levels must be immense.

 

[DC_Boy]

zokora did well - but certainly not as well as Berbatov - one is an athlete who can play a bit - the other is an artist and a joy to watch - (who can forget early on the way he plucked the ball out of the sky then did Terry with a great bit of skill - Terry knew he was in for problems if he didn't know before

teams need both the Zokoras (ok someone a bit better would be nicer and is needed to challenge top 4) and the Berbs - but we need the Berbs more and that's why he's worth what 3 times the fee of Zokora

I remember (I think correctly) Jol describing DZ as someone who can't pass, shoot or tackle, (or words to that effect - may be wrong but that's what I remember) - that's a harsh judgement of course - but really he needs to quit doing his stupid tackles (Sun was not the first 'madness' occasion) - so yes well done Zoko - but we still need better besides JJ if we are to go top 4 (though keep him as a squad player)

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

No just the 'look', socks down, tanned legs.

Oh right! Very erm........errrrr....cough.......

Spoiler

Eek

:wink:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Not in the gay way. Just purely the appearance. Long tanned legs, socks down, same sort of demeanor (graceful more than chunky).

OK, it is sounding a bit gay. But you know what I mean.

 

[Berbati]

zokora did well - but certainly not as well as Berbatov - one is an athlete who can play a bit - the other is an artist and a joy to watch - (who can forget early on the way he plucked the ball out of the sky then did Terry with a great bit of skill - Terry knew he was in for problems if he didn't know before

teams need both the Zokoras (ok someone a bit better would be nicer and is needed to challenge top 4) and the Berbs - but we need the Berbs more and that's why he's worth what 3 times the fee of Zokora

I remember (I think correctly) Jol describing DZ as someone who can't pass, shoot or tackle, (or words to that effect - may be wrong but that's what I remember) - that's a harsh judgement of course - but really he needs to quit doing his stupid tackles (Sun was not the first 'madness' occasion) - so yes well done Zoko - but we still need better besides JJ if we are to go top 4 (though keep him as a squad player)

That was a moment of genius.


Zokora is an amazing athlete. If he was a little bit more skillful he would be world class.

 

[hughy]

Not in the gay way. Just purely the appearance. Long tanned legs, socks down, same sort of demeanor (graceful more than chunky).

OK, it is sounding a bit gay. But you know what I mean.

Hello sailor! :wink:

 

[PLTuck]

Oh right! Very erm........errrrr....cough.......

Spoiler

Eek

:wink:

:rofl:

 

[Bulletspur]

zokora did well - but certainly not as well as Berbatov - one is an athlete who can play a bit - the other is an artist and a joy to watch - (who can forget early on the way he plucked the ball out of the sky then did Terry with a great bit of skill - Terry knew he was in for problems if he didn't know before

teams need both the Zokoras (ok someone a bit better would be nicer and is needed to challenge top 4) and the Berbs - but we need the Berbs more and that's why he's worth what 3 times the fee of Zokora

I remember (I think correctly) Jol describing DZ as someone who can't pass, shoot or tackle, (or words to that effect - may be wrong but that's what I remember) - that's a harsh judgement of course - but really he needs to quit doing his stupid tackles (Sun was not the first 'madness' occasion) - so yes well done Zoko - but we still need better besides JJ if we are to go top 4 (though keep him as a squad player)

DC, I dare you to do a post that has nothing to do Berbatov!

 

[General Levy]

I notice General Levy who (after initially giving Zoko a 4) gave him a 5, has not appeared on this thread yet. Interesting...!

Yeah, I stayed off because I didn't want to have any more neg reps from you. Maybe I was being overcritical, but he didn't deserve more than a 5 in my eyes.

In some peoples eyes, Zokora may have had a good game, but his mistakes in the game were HUGE ones. Everyone is hunkydorie (sp) because we won, but if we lost, he would have been slaughtered. He fucked up two 1-on-1's with the keeper and gave away two identical freekicks in the same area; one cost us a goal, the other was a yellow card.

These mistakes in the long run will costs us points when we start challenging for the top 4 in the next couple of seasons.

This is why him and Robinson have to go.

NB: I was going to do exactly the same thing and re-watch the whole game again. In future for match rating threads, I will make a note for all events and try and add them to the op. Hopefully, this will make the rating thread more interesting and will improve some of our rating skills and improve discussion.

 

[Chaplain]

I'm pretty sure the yellow card and the goal came from the same FK.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Yeah, I stayed off because I didn't want to have any more neg reps from you. Maybe I was being overcritical, but he didn't deserve more than a 5 in my eyes.

In some peoples eyes, Zokora may have had a good game, but his mistakes in the game were HUGE ones. Everyone is hunkydorie (sp) because we won, but if we lost, he would have been slaughtered. He fucked up two 1-on-1's with the keeper and gave away two identical freekicks in the same area; one cost us a goal, the other was a yellow card.

These mistakes in the long run will costs us points when we start challenging for the top 4 in the next couple of seasons.

This is why him and Robinson have to go.

NB: I was going to do exactly the same thing and re-watch the whole game again. In future for match rating threads, I will make a note for all events and try and add them to the op. Hopefully, this will make the rating thread more interesting and will improve some of our rating skills and improve discussion.

I have to say that I think you are being far too critical.

Zokora has a very specific role, it's not big, clever or very pretty but it's essential against a side like Chelsea and it is simply to control the middle.
His job is not to score 1 on 1's, we have half a dozen other players to do that, his job is to get up the opposition. Part of this job will also result in giving away free-kicks and getting yellow cards but I don't see them as errors, just as occupational hazards.

In an ideal world I would like a central midfielder with his athleticism who can finish like Berbatov and tackle like Ledley but I doubt if one exists and if he did he wouldn't be playing for us at the moment.
So as a result he has to be marked purely on how he played in the confines of his role. Him and Jenas controlled the middle, where most games are won or lost, against top quality opposition which in my mind makes him deserving of a 9.

I agree about Robbo though as I felt he was the only player who looked out of his depth on Sunday.

 

[Locotoro]

Now, to Zokora. He was generally excellent. He battled and fought splendidly, and saved us on several occasions. But he made four major errors. The two freekicks he gave away on the edge of our box, which were due to reckless challenges as he tried to recover his position. And the two times when he broke clear and made a mess of it.

If he had danced around the Chelsea midfield and nutmegged Terry then left Carvalho on his arse in a Maradona-esque fashion only to be thwarted by the best keeper in the Prem would you still see it as a glaring mistake?

Am I the only one who see the fact that he made a 60 yard sprint twice, once deep into extra time when most players, (not Spurs players incidently), would be falling to their knees with exhaustion, to create goal scoring opportunities in the first place.

I dont think they were mistakes at all, Zokora providing us with another attacking outlet deep into the game and would have scored with a bit more composure but then I didnt see anyone else making those runs on Sunday

 

[weststandvoice]

You cannot be annoyed with Zoko not scoring......that's his thing :up:

It's same with Robbo flapping those crosses....sorta his thingy :wink:

:-D

 

[yanno]

If he had danced around the Chelsea midfield and nutmegged Terry then left Carvalho on his arse in a Maradona-esque fashion only to be thwarted by the best keeper in the Prem would you still see it as a glaring mistake?

Am I the only one who see the fact that he made a 60 yard sprint twice, once deep into extra time when most players, (not Spurs players incidently), would be falling to their knees with exhaustion, to create goal scoring opportunities in the first place.

I dont think they were mistakes at all, Zokora providing us with another attacking outlet deep into the game and would have scored with a bit more composure but then I didnt see anyone else making those runs on Sunday

Locotoro - you partially quoted me. In fact, if you'd fully quoted me, you'd see that I addressed your point in my original answer. Here, again, is what I wrote:

If that was the first time I'd ever seen Zokora play, I would be thinking we had a potentially world class player. All he needs is a bit of composure in front of goal, either to shoot more accurately or slip an easy through ball to Berba or Lennon. But we've all been watching the guy for a season and a half. I doubt any Spurs fan would have put serious money on Zokora either scoring or passing to a Spurs player when he was clean through. If Juande can teach him that kind of composure at the age of 26, then Ramos truly is a genius.

----------------------

And I'll add the following. JJ is also fit enough to have made such a run. And from their goalscoring record, season after season, I think there's a good chance Jenas would either have scored or put either Berba or Lennon through. On one, or maybe even both, occasions.

 

[General Levy]

I have to say that I think you are being far too critical.

Zokora has a very specific role, it's not big, clever or very pretty but it's essential against a side like Chelsea and it is simply to control the middle.
His job is not to score 1 on 1's, we have half a dozen other players to do that, his job is to get up the opposition. Part of this job will also result in giving away free-kicks and getting yellow cards but I don't see them as errors, just as occupational hazards.

In an ideal world I would like a central midfielder with his athleticism who can finish like Berbatov and tackle like Ledley but I doubt if one exists and if he did he wouldn't be playing for us at the moment.
So as a result he has to be marked purely on how he played in the confines of his role. Him and Jenas controlled the middle, where most games are won or lost, against top quality opposition which in my mind makes him deserving of a 9.

I agree about Robbo though as I felt he was the only player who looked out of his depth on Sunday.

Zokora lacks/ed composure. IMO we need to buy a DCM who has a left foot, can score easy 1-on-1's, and will score 3-6 league goals a season. Zokora is none of the above.

I agree about Robbo though as I felt he was the only player who looked out of his depth on Sunday.

When Robinson never came for an easy cross in ET. You should have seen King's face, as he was livid.

So, cliff notes:

New keeper + New DCM = top 4 next season for Spurs.

*disclaimer: the above prediction is that we keep Berbatov and him, Woodgte and Jenas stay fit for the season.

 

[SpurSince57]

I have to say that I think you are being far too critical.

Zokora has a very specific role, it's not big, clever or very pretty but it's essential against a side like Chelsea and it is simply to control the middle.
His job is not to score 1 on 1's, we have half a dozen other players to do that, his job is to get up the opposition. Part of this job will also result in giving away free-kicks and getting yellow cards but I don't see them as errors, just as occupational hazards.

In an ideal world I would like a central midfielder with his athleticism who can finish like Berbatov and tackle like Ledley but I doubt if one exists and if he did he wouldn't be playing for us at the moment.
So as a result he has to be marked purely on how he played in the confines of his role. Him and Jenas controlled the middle, where most games are won or lost, against top quality opposition which in my mind makes him deserving of a 9.

I agree about Robbo though as I felt he was the only player who looked out of his depth on Sunday.

As someone who's been very critical of Zokora in the past, I thought that was by far his best performance for us, certainly the first that's made me think he really could be what we were led to expect 18 months ago. He and JJ totally neutralised the supposedly 'superior' Essien and Lampard (with a bit of help from Keane harrying Mikel). What more do some people want?

As for the fouls: I don't think the one on SWP was a foul, and the one on Drogba was marginal, with Halsey being influenced by Drogba's acting like a big girl. And I would far rather have Zoko getting stuck in, even to the point of recklessness, than displays like the one against Fabregas in the CC last season.

But Robbo looking out of his depth? No more so than Cech. Sure, he messed up on the free-kick, but we would have been up shit creek without a paddle had it not been for three vital saves, and he would have been finished in many people's eyes.

 

[General Levy]

As someone who's been very critical of Zokora in the past, I thought that was by far his best performance for us, certainly the first that's made me think he really could be what we were led to expect 18 months ago. He and JJ totally neutralised the supposedly 'superior' Essien and Lampard (with a bit of help from Keane harrying Mikel). What more do some people want?

As for the fouls: I don't think the one on SWP was a foul, and the one on Drogba was marginal, with Halsey being influenced by Drogba's acting like a big girl. And I would far rather have Zoko getting stuck in, even to the point of recklessness, than displays like the one against Fabregas in the CC last season.

But Robbo looking out of his depth? No more so than Cech. Sure, he messed up on the free-kick, but we would have been up shit creek without a paddle had it not been for three vital saves, and he would have been finished in many people's eyes.

One match and now he is a world beater LMAO:rofl:

Some of you are unreal. Once the euphoria of winning the cup leaves your body, then you'll realise that one decent performance doesn't mean that an average player like Zokora is better than a proven world class player like Essien.

 

[Legend10]

As someone who's been very critical of Zokora in the past, I thought that was by far his best performance for us, certainly the first that's made me think he really could be what we were led to expect 18 months ago. He and JJ totally neutralised the supposedly 'superior' Essien and Lampard (with a bit of help from Keane harrying Mikel). What more do some people want?

As for the fouls: I don't think the one on SWP was a foul, and the one on Drogba was marginal, with Halsey being influenced by Drogba's acting like a big girl. And I would far rather have Zoko getting stuck in, even to the point of recklessness, than displays like the one against Fabregas in the CC last season.

But Robbo looking out of his depth? No more so than Cech. Sure, he messed up on the free-kick, but we would have been up shit creek without a paddle had it not been for three vital saves, and he would have been finished in many people's eyes.

Eek