Rio Olympics 2016
- Thread starter tiger666
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Gbspurs
Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
- Jan 27, 2011
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Its just generational and because it's "New" to people our age and not something we have grown up with so we have to get used to it.
I think its easy for people to label anyone who doesn't agree with something as phobic but I always think as long as you are generally being respecful and not abusive you can feel how you want about these sorts of things.
Sadly some people feel the need to force views on people and if you don't agree you are racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic (delete where appropriate).
Gassin's finest
C'est diabolique
- May 12, 2010
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I think it's nice to just not be mean about other people.
Gbspurs
Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
- Jan 27, 2011
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That's pretty much what I said isn't it? Be respectful and not abusive?
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't ever be mean to anyone going through any sort of changes.
But, I ask myself, would I be happy if ny of my boys turned around to me and said they want to be a woman and change their sex - I'd be gutted, for them mostly, that they were that messed up. I'm not sure I buy into the born in the wrong body, where as I do believe in the mental health aspect, jsut severaly messed up.
Apologies to anyone who is going through this, it's just my view - as I said, probably ignorance. I've supported staff who have gone through this, even more difficult calling them Dave on friday and then Margaret on the monday...
Gassin's finest
C'est diabolique
- May 12, 2010
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But you have pulled someone up for calling someone else out on being disrespectful... in the case of that it's not about someone choosing to be someone, but about someone who has no choice about who they are.
That's unfair.
Gassin's finest
C'est diabolique
- May 12, 2010
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Why do you assume that they're messed up? People can't help who they are.
MaccSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Jul 24, 2013
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It's far more complicated than that and calling them men just makes it easy for most to understand.
Gbspurs
Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
- Jan 27, 2011
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Fair enough.
Because they must be.
Although when I say messed up, I mean mental health type issues, rather than it sounded so derogatory - it's just I type how I speak typically.
A man or women that believes they are in the wrong body, isn't wired correctly, something is broken, be it the body or the mind = messed up.
I just believe we should be assisting those going through those types of thoughts proper support before such drastic changes as operations or chopping off/adding pieces of anatomy they wern't born with.
Gassin's finest
C'est diabolique
- May 12, 2010
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Hmmm... I'm personally of the opinion that unless you're harming other people, a person should be free to be whoever they want, and do whatever they like. I'm not comfortable with the idea of calling mental illness because that person does something that someone else can't wrap their head around.
But I don't want to militant or anything about it. Just... live and let live y'know.
jondesouza
Well-Known Member
- Oct 18, 2004
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The only comments I've seen as transphobic on here (and there's not many of them) are the ones that deny that someone like Caster Semenya can call themselves 'she'. You can call it a PC buzzword if you like; in reality it's just a word which maybe isn't used regularly but should be easily understandable in the same way that we all now know what homophobia is and rightly call it out when we see it.
I also know that many people don't necessarily understand the issues and I've got no problem discussing this with them without chucking terms about but the core of this is that you and I have no right to state that any transgender or intersex person is necessarily a 'he' or 'she'. That has to be their right to identify themselves how they want based on the gender they feel they are.
I agree with @Shanks post just above to a certain extent - these people are quite literally messed up. Not because of mental illness but because their bodies and their brains don't match, either because they've been born one sex and feel they should be another (in the case of transgender people) or because they haven't been born completely as one sex or the other (intersex people).
The reason I responded to @MaccSpurs in the way I did is because he knows that Semenya identifies as a woman, that she doesn't have male sexual organs and that it would be offensive to her to be called a man and he still choose to do it. I called it transphobic but you could just say it was rude and disrepectful.
Actually, I've got no issue with the view that Semenya shouldn't be running in women's races, not though because she's intersex or not a woman but because her testosterone levels are so high. (In fact, many intersex people don't have as high testosterone levels as Semenya and some that do find their bodies don't actually make use of the extra). If she could bring those down medically there wouldn't be an issue. (For information though, they're nowhere near as high as those for an average man).
ralvy
AVB my love
- Jun 26, 2012
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Have you seen the high suicide rates in the transgender community (both in those who go through body alteration and not)? There's clearly something wrong with most of these people, and sadly body alteration doesn't seem to be the solution.
One of the great tragedies of this generation is that we're basically letting these people commit self genocide simply because we're too afraid of hurting their feelings.
That's how I act I suppose, but how I feel is very different, I just don't feel that we should change a sex as answer to a potential problem.
nightgoat
Well-Known Member
- Sep 12, 2005
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Bullshit. Everyone who has posted on this topic is perfectly capable of 'understanding' the issue without your ipse dixit. You're like Trump saying calling all Mexicans rapists makes it easier for people to understand immigration.
jondesouza
Well-Known Member
- Oct 18, 2004
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There's a couple here. It's not been proven absolutely but all the evidence suggests a biological basis.
https://www.bu.edu/news/2015/02/13/...-on-the-biological-nature-of-gender-identity/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
Arnoldtoo
The thinking ape's ape
- May 18, 2006
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I don't think I was born in the wrong body, but I'm not all that chuffed with the one I've got now!
Gassin's finest
C'est diabolique
- May 12, 2010
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Not that I want to take this too far off the rails, but are those suicides born out of regretting a "mistake", or depression and stress from the way society treats them?
But there are a wealth of ethical debates over the intervention of medical science in our natural states... from test tube babies, to transgender operations. None of it is natural, but the science exists to enable it (with plenty of money to be made from it alongside).
Gb160
Well done boys. Good process
- Jun 20, 2012
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I've always really disliked the male body in general....if u look at women's bodies they're perfect, nice boobs at the front for easy access, all the important reproductive stuff is tucked away neatly inside, then you've got the male body, meat and two veg just stuck on the front like some afterthought.
I get the impression whoever was chief designer spent far too much time perfecting the girls and had to whack the bloke together in about 15 minutes.
Anyway, back on topic, hope the Brazilians extradite Ryan Lochte, if only to see Yankspurs meltdown.
