scouting and transfers

[Hercules]

I would struggle to see Swansea paying £20m+ for Janssen

Loan!

 

[vegassd]

This isn't about scouting, it's just venting that we didn't buy the players you want.

This, this, a million times this!

People bitch and moan about transfers every season and it's totally pointless. I'm sure loads of fans were horrified at last summer's window and we ended up finishing second.

I would imagine that we do a lot of business later in the windows because we aren't as much of a lure as most CL teams. I have no proof of this - it's just my opinion - but I would imagine that somebody like Aurier would rather move to Barca, United, Bayern et al. than to Spurs. I don't think fees or wages even come into it for a lot of players. It's only after the giant clubs don't bother that certain players would agree to Spurs. Like I say, that's just my opinion.

Transfers are a lot more complicated than most of us probably imagine. It's not just like increasing a bid in a computer game until the player joins. The players have families, friends, ambitions, opinions and expectations that need to be considered when they change clubs. And that's before you consider what the selling club wants.

So to say that we should be making our signings early in the window and that they should be only the best youth players misses a lot of the nuance of the human side of transfers.

To imply that we should only sign players who will be successful for us in the future ("there needs to be a collective responsibility for the wastage of 60 million") is kinda crazy. Nobody knows how successful a player will be for us in the future.

 

[Shadydan]

I'm sure we wouldn't have had to pay so much for his wages what with the lure of us playing in the CL and our club status.

Yep I can definitely see Ramirez taking around £20-40k less and happy to play backup to Kane as opposed to earning £120k and having guarantees of being a starter at Everton.

 

[dontcallme]

I've made criticisms but I haven't ranted. Isn't criticizing allowed here?
I praised the team a lot last season I was happy with the second place.
I wouldn't whine about Sanchez I never expected us to get him.

Why is it a nonsense to talk about wasting 60 million? why is the subject off limits. I talked about us finishing 2nd last season, why can't I talk about this now?

It's not that the subject is off limits. It's about the quality of the post that people are against.

We bought Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Alli, Son and Eriksen for just over £100m. They'll be worth half a billion in the modern market.

But you want to focus on the £60m of players who have not yet made an impact even though they have only been here a year.

If any club in the world made signings without a few not making it I'd understand your point.

If we hadn't bought Janssen, he'd had another year scoring in the Eredivisie and internationaly and was sold for £30m to Everton you'd be monaing about us not buying him the year before.

 

[Mullers]

I don't think nonsense is necessarily the right word. Pointless would be better. In any form of recruitment, you are always taking a risk. You have to accept that some transfers won't work out. There is pretty much universal agreement that Sissoko was a weird decision. Other than that, the other players who have not made it so far could just as easily have been the next Eriksen or Dier or Alli.

The subject is not off limits. Now that is nonsense. You are openly discussing it, aren't you?

Why is it pointless? I accept that some signings work out and some don't, if they work out those in charge should get credit if it doesn't work then equally they should expect criticism.

I asked if it was off limits because he obviously doesnt want me to talk about it.

 

[Mullers]

It's not that the subject is off limits. It's about the quality of the post that people are against.

We bought Lloris, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Alli, Son and Eriksen for just over £100m. They'll be worth half a billion in the modern market.

But you want to focus on the £60m of players who have not yet made an impact even though they have only been here a year.

If any club in the world made signings without a few not making it I'd understand your point.

If we hadn't bought Janssen, he'd had another year scoring in the Eredivisie and internationaly and was sold for £30m to Everton you'd be monaing about us not buying him the year before.

We've had a lot of good buys I know and developed a lot of players I have praised all this in the past, however as this is a forum I see no reason for not discussing how money has been wasted. We discuss how other teams waste money on here why not our own.

I'd given Janssen another season actually but the reality is Poch doesnt want him after one season, so its been a waste of money.

 

[Mullers]

Yep I can definitely see Ramirez taking around £20-40k less and happy to play backup to Kane as opposed to earning £120k and having guarantees of being a starter at Everton.

Not everyone is driven by money, yes it would be hard for him to get game time but he would be with a better club and a better manager who could develop him.

 

[StanSpur]

Last summer we spent 60 million on 3 players, these players quickly became surplus to requirements and we are unable to get rid of them. That being said we had a great season, we brought in Steve Hitchin in March to help with the scouting. I was looking forward to the transfer window, to see what improvements would be made.
We got Sanchez in for 42 million, we got Aurier in for 25 million, Llorente for 15 million and Foyth for 8 million.

Sanchez and Aurier I would say are solid signings but I would question why we need to spend 42 million on a defender when we had the best defence in the league last season? It's not an area in dire need of improvement. Foyth is a prospect but will not be getting any game time for a while, it's going to be difficult for him. Llorente is 32, its a very unimaginative signing for a club that came 2nd and is now in the CL, he has no resale value and isn't someone that will help us to win trophies I feel. He probably won't be here next season.

The transfer strategy was the same it has been in the past, wait until the closing moments of the transfer window then seal the deal. All the new players miss the preseason, Poch has made it known in the past that he wants players in early. I see no reason why most of the signings could not have been brought earlier.

Levy has shown he is prepared to spend money but I feel the money is being wasted and there needs to be a collective responsibility for the wastage of 60 million, Poch agreed to sign these players, the correct signings could have won us a couple of trophies.

I see little to no evidence of steve Hitchins influence. I've said many times, we need an extensive scouting network, we need to sign the Martial's and the Sanchez's when their price is low, that is the way we can be competitive in the CL and beat teams like Chelsea because we can't go out and spend 60, 70, 100 million on one player. I do feel it was a mistake not to get another DOF after Mitchell resigned, now I feel it's too late because Poch is more responsible for transfers and whoever comes in would be stepping on his toes.

First off I would argue that we don't know who are surplus to requirements. Jansen is still young and could yet become a valuable asset in the squad. Sissoko has also shown that he can be an effective player but needs to find that on a consistent basis. Against Burnley he did more in his 20 minutes or so than Son did all game in terms of pressing and driving forward.

With regards to the defence, we currently have 2 very good CBs. One is 30 the other keeps talking of playing at a higher level but regardless, we often play 3 at the back.....so.......don't we need another top CB? and this kid was Ajax player of the year and our other two CBs that came through at Ajax have been worth more than £40m each in their time with us. He's also 21 so is very much a purchase for the future. Foyth as well for the future. Both with a better reputation at the same age as wimmer or CCV.

Llorente has played at the top level for the past 15 years almost. Jansen is struggling at the moment so why not bring in someone who is likely to settle quick and fill in for Kane when needed or work with him if chasing a game? Swansea owed us cash so this seemed like a no brainer to me - and keeping Jansen, with maybe a January loan gives us the longer term option.

As for the timing of the transfers, it is down to more than just our will. There is the selling team, player, agents etc. All are working in their own interest to get the best deal for themselves

 

[nicdic]

I think it's a worth while punt at 5 million, low risk, high reward.

And he's sitting on the bench behind Calvert-Lewin and Rooney...

 

[Mullers]

And he's sitting on the bench behind Calvert-Lewin and Rooney...

So not worth a punt then?

 

[nicdic]

So not worth a punt then?

I didn't want him before he sat on Everton's bench, seen nothing to suggest we should get him now. So no.

You still want him in?

 

[Mullers]

I didn't want him before he sat on Everton's bench, seen nothing to suggest we should get him now. So no.

You still want him in?

If we can get him for the same price Everton paid and cut his wages, sure, its very early in the season.

 

[nicdic]

If we can get him for the same price Everton paid and cut his wages, sure, its very early in the season.

Fair enough. I can understand the frustration at missing out on a particular target you thought might help us.

Not sure it warrants a questioning of all our transfer dealings though.

 

[Shadydan]

Not everyone is driven by money, yes it would be hard for him to get game time but he would be with a better club and a better manager who could develop him.

You're right but in this instance I think you're being a little naive.

 

[Mullers]

Fair enough. I can understand the frustration at missing out on a particular target you thought might help us.

Not sure it warrants a questioning of all our transfer dealings though.

I did haven't a particular target in mind I just thought we'd go for more attacking players.
Im not questioning all transfer dealings, just some of them.

 

[nicdic]

I did haven't a particular target in mind I just thought we'd go for more attacking players.
Im not questioning all transfer dealings, just some of them.

Fair enough, I think all of us would have liked to bolster the attacking options, I just don't think the reason we didn't was because we spent the money in defence. We just either weren't able to get the players we wanted (Baldé to Monaco), or decided to wait (Barkley).

 

[Mullers]

First off I would argue that we don't know who are surplus to requirements. Jansen is still young and could yet become a valuable asset in the squad. Sissoko has also shown that he can be an effective player but needs to find that on a consistent basis. Against Burnley he did more in his 20 minutes or so than Son did all game in terms of pressing and driving forward.

With regards to the defence, we currently have 2 very good CBs. One is 30 the other keeps talking of playing at a higher level but regardless, we often play 3 at the back.....so.......don't we need another top CB? and this kid was Ajax player of the year and our other two CBs that came through at Ajax have been worth more than £40m each in their time with us. He's also 21 so is very much a purchase for the future. Foyth as well for the future. Both with a better reputation at the same age as wimmer or CCV.

Llorente has played at the top level for the past 15 years almost. Jansen is struggling at the moment so why not bring in someone who is likely to settle quick and fill in for Kane when needed or work with him if chasing a game? Swansea owed us cash so this seemed like a no brainer to me - and keeping Jansen, with maybe a January loan gives us the longer term option.

As for the timing of the transfers, it is down to more than just our will. There is the selling team, player, agents etc. All are working in their own interest to get the best deal for themselves

We needed a goal against Chelsea and Poch put Sissoko on, I 'd say Jansen was finished realistically. As for Sissoko its been we've been trying to get rid of him all summer. I want every spurs to do well but it just hasn't worked out with those two.
I don't doubt the quality of Sanchez, Im just questioning whether we need him right now and I dont think we do.
Foyth is a bigger gamble than any of those two, he is very young and he is in a new country, he has a lot to take on.

Llorente I wish we had got him some years, being back up for Kane is a tough job, I strongly suspect that if Kane get injured a lot of people will panic. I don't think he can fill in for a sustained period. I'd rather have kept 15 million and wait until the next window.

But our will has a lot to do with it, I think several past managers have complained about getting players at the last minute.

 

[Mullers]

Verts, Toby and Sanchez would start together so I don't think Sanchez would have to wait, and Sanchez would probably out of our reach if we go for him next season, in that case the club (levy) would be criticized for not getting young talents earlier (again)

They won't start together all the time, personally Levy would not have been criticized in this instance by me because its a lot of money, if it was 5 million like what Ajax paid for him thats a different story. I'd still say it's not an area we need to strengthen but it would matter a lot less because the fee is cheap and we could use funds to strengthen in other areas.

 

[Mullers]

Low risk, guaranteed high wages. Lucky you aren't running things.

I wouldnt pay those wages that Everton paid he would have to fit inside our wage structure and it would be a take it or leave it offer. Remember also we made Adebayor the higest paid player at the club.

 

[Hotspurious]

I've made criticisms but I haven't ranted. Isn't criticizing allowed here?
I praised the team a lot last season I was happy with the second place.
I wouldn't whine about Sanchez I never expected us to get him.

Why is it a nonsense to talk about wasting 60 million? why is the subject off limits. I talked about us finishing 2nd last season, why can't I talk about this now?

It's cool if you give your opinion but your reasoning doesn't make sense...and therefore has been rebutted. Part of discourse includes the reply.

On one hand you criticize us for buying a youngster on the cheap because he'll never get playing time and on the other your criticize the club for not buying youngsters when they are relatively inexpensive. Those two points are contradictory.

Then you criticize the club for buying defenders when we just got rid of two defenders. Considering we often play three at the back and that Dier is more of a midfielder, I would argue that we're still a bit thin in central defense even with Sanchez and Foyth.

Then you criticize us for buying a proven backup for Harry Kane on the cheap...well exactly where does one buy someone who can adequately cover Kane at a reasonable price? Anyone younger than him is not going to accept being merely cover for Kane or is not a proven commodity. If anything, signing Llorente is a statement of intent that we want to take the next step. It is certainly not an investment.

No one is critical of your choice to voice your criticism...it is merely that your criticism is so poorly supported.