Smear campaign against Baddiel

[dontcallme]

What about the word "rape"? Off the top of my head I can remember the comedian Jimmy Carr joking about rape on TV; Family Guy contains regular rape jokes; Facebook Rape (chortle). Surely every time the word "rape" is used it has a "negative emotional meaning for" people who have been the victim of rape. Are we banning the word "rape" from being used on TV now? Are we banning it from every day use?

Sort it out, pal.

What you and others are failing to acknowledge is not once has Neville said it should be banned.

It's simply about making an informed choice. Using the word Yid really isn't that important to me. I choose not to cause offence when I can and believe there are thousands of other Spurs songs I can sing and my life really wouldn't be any worse for it.

Just because I choose not to sing songs using the word Yid and share my views on a message board, which is what I thought this place was mostly for, does not mean I want it banned.

 

[NEVILLEB]

What about the word "rape"? Off the top of my head I can remember the comedian Jimmy Carr joking about rape on TV; Family Guy contains regular rape jokes; Facebook Rape (chortle). Surely every time the word "rape" is used it has a "negative emotional meaning for" people who have been the victim of rape. Are we banning the word "rape" from being used on TV now? Are we banning it from every day use?

Sort it out, pal.

Rape is a word describing an action, not a group of people.

Sort out your IQ and then post again.

 

[SpurSince57]

Thanks for enlightening us. I was wondering why the Spurs fan was arrested on sunday; now I know that it was for using empowering language.

I suspect it may have been more to do with acting like a complete tit.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I think the main problem is evidenced in this thread, with everyone saying "y word and n word". It's yid and nigger. You are allowed to say the words, they are in the dictionary.

banning words under any circumstances is orwellian, and only a small step up from burning books.

 

[E17yid]

Yawn

 

[spud]

I suspect it may have been more to do with acting like a complete tit.

I'm not sure that that is an arrestable offence. If it were, there would be more people in prison than not.

 

[Misfit]

I think the main problem is evidenced in this thread, with everyone saying "y word and n word". It's yid and nigger. You are allowed to say the words, they are in the dictionary.

banning words under any circumstances is orwellian, and only a small step up from burning books.

You'll have someone claiming you get a buzz out of, and there are darker motives for, you using simple words in an appropriate context soon.

You disgusting little ol' racist you - not that they'll say it directly of course.

 

[NEVILLEB]

We are essentially chanting 'Jews'...'Jews'

Does that seem right? Or even mean anything to most fans.

It is tradition and its fun to chant but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it.

 

[cheeseman]

Rape is a word describing an action, not a group of people.

Sort out your IQ and then post again.

And where did I say it describes a group of people? It's a word that has a "negative emotional reaction". We're talking about the use of words being offensive here, pal. You, yourself used the words "words" and "negative emotional reaction".

 

[cheeseman]

What you and others are failing to acknowledge is not once has Neville said it should be banned.

It's simply about making an informed choice. Using the word Yid really isn't that important to me. I choose not to cause offence when I can and believe there are thousands of other Spurs songs I can sing and my life really wouldn't be any worse for it.

Just because I choose not to sing songs using the word Yid and share my views on a message board, which is what I thought this place was mostly for, does not mean I want it banned.

"That's life. Sometimes, even if you don't agree or understand, you need to give people some slack and just respect their wishes."

"So, out of respect for the sensitive subject of the discrimination against the Jews, couldn't you just chant something else"

He didn't use the word "banned". Apologies.

 

[SpurSince57]

We are essentially chanting 'Jews'...'Jews'

Does that seem right? Or even mean anything to most fans.

It is tradition and its fun to chant but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it.

Yes, we are. 'Yid' derives from the German 'Jud'; it's a matter of a vowel sound. 'Yid' should be pronounced 'Yed', I believe. And 'Jud', 'Yid' and 'Jew' ultimately derive from 'Judah'—'Yehudah'.

Does it seem wrong? And yes, I'm pretty sure most fans have at least an inkling of what it means. Anti-semitism (a term that annoys me, but we're stuck with it) endures. We're perceived as being a Jewish club, even though only a small percentage of our support these days is Jewish (and I doubt that it was ever anywhere near close to being a majority). So, in the 'All for one, one for All' sense, we're all Jews. Someone abuses a Jewish fan, they abuse me (and as I posted in the Y-word thread, once upon a time I was often accused of being Jewish), and every other Gentile supporter.

Very few football chants make a lot of sense; I'd suggest that 'Yid Army' makes more sense than most.

 

[NEVILLEB]

And where did I say it describes a group of people? It's a word that has a "negative emotional reaction". We're talking about the use of words being offensive here, pal. You, yourself used the words "words" and "negative emotional reaction".

Can't you understand that racist words are taboo because the world is trying to stamp out racism?

Racist words are used to devalue and discriminate against innocent, normal people.

People who've been raped are not vilified. They rightly get the empathy and support of the public.

So bring rape into the argument was stupid.

There are lots of racist terms already no longer used in British society. Why can't Yid be added to them?

You are effectively shouting 'Jews!' 'Jews!' at a football match. Is it that important to you?

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Can't you understand that racist words are taboo because the world is trying to stamp out racism?

Racist words are used to devalue and discriminate against innocent, normal people.

People who've been raped are not vilified. They rightly get the empathy and support of the public.

So bring rape into the argument was stupid.

There are lots of racist terms already no longer used in British society. Why can't Yid be added to them?

You are effectively shouting 'Jews!' 'Jews!' at a football match. Is it that important to you?

But in lots of Jewish(Yiddish) contexts it by no means a racist word. Plus, the meaning of Yid in the context now is 'Spurs fan' Did you do English Language at school? If so, you'd realise that not only words but their definitions and meanings can change...

 

[cheeseman]

People who've been raped are not vilified. They rightly get the empathy and support of the public.

Depends where you live.

 

[NEVILLEB]

But in lots of Jewish(Yiddish) contexts it by no means a racist word. Plus, the meaning of Yid in the context now is 'Spurs fan' Did you do English Language at school? If so, you'd realise that not only words but their definitions and meanings can change...

Yes, I got an A

It can be used as a racist term although I agree that we use it in a positive way.

Racism is a very difficult subject because it provokes extreme reactions. You really need to take in all views. I would normally go along with the wishes of the race the term is about.

 

[cheeseman]

Can't you understand that racist words are taboo because the world is trying to stamp out racism?

Racist words are used to devalue and discriminate against innocent, normal people.

People who've been raped are not vilified. They rightly get the empathy and support of the public.

So bring rape into the argument was stupid.

There are lots of racist terms already no longer used in British society. Why can't Yid be added to them?

You are effectively shouting 'Jews!' 'Jews!' at a football match. Is it that important to you?

More words put into my mouth. I was challenging you on your point about not using certain words in front of certain people because they may cause offence. The word "rape" may cause offence to certain people. You were talking about words causing offence (what does it matter if the word used is a racial slur? A word that causes offence is a word that causes offence). A non-racial word may cause as much offence as a racial slur. Or are you of the belief that a racial slur is the worst thing that someone can say to someone else?

 

[cheeseman]

Yes, I got an A

It can be used as a racist term although I agree that we use it in a positive way.

Racism is a very difficult subject because it provokes extreme reactions. You really need to take in all views. I would normally go along with the wishes of the race the term is about.

A, my arse.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

What is a shame, if nobody had unnecessarily raised Tottenhams use because they didn't know how to tackle the genuine racism in football, I honestly believe that within my lifetime the word 'yid' would be recognised within the UK primarily to mean Tottenham fan and be far removed in modern context from the part of it's long history that has racist connotations. Spurs fans could have been responsible for eradicating a racist term and replacing it's meaning with a self identifying term of endearment that unifies people from all backgrounds...but because people can not grasp context and the fact that words can evolve in meaning we have effectively branded people doing a positive thing as racist.

 

[NEVILLEB]

A, my arse.

The fact you even asked the question shows you up. As if an English qualification has anything to do with it.

I'm guessing from your response you didn't get an A so naa naaa!

 

[NEVILLEB]

More words put into my mouth. I was challenging you on your point about not using certain words in front of certain people because they may cause offence. The word "rape" may cause offence to certain people. You were talking about words causing offence (what does it matter if the word used is a racial slur? A word that causes offence is a word that causes offence). A non-racial word may cause as much offence as a racial slur. Or are you of the belief that a racial slur is the worst thing that someone can say to someone else?

If someone had been raped I wouldn't be chanting the word rape around them.

You are thick! Please stop talking about rape.

This is about racism. It's a separate issue, particularly with Jewish people who have had a terrible history with it.

Stop changing the discussion and add something relevant.