Team v Man City

[Blake Griffin]

Probably because Wenger was comfortable with it, I haven't seen a post suggesting Ogilvie is ready even from those who follow the Academy closely.

yes, i agree with ogilvie but a top club playing a 19 year old defender with [next to] no game time isn't completely unheard of as i suggested with bellerin. paddy mcnair for man utd is another. both were brought in because of an injury crisis, bellerin has been superb and mcnair has done well enough.

 

[only1waddle]

yes, i agree with ogilvie but a top club playing a 19 year old defender with [next to] no game time isn't completely unheard of as i suggested with bellerin. paddy mcnair for man utd is another. both were brought in because of an injury crisis, bellerin has been superb and mcnair has done well enough.

I agree, this City side on its day can torment experienced players, let alone a young academy player.
Got no problem playing some of these youngsters in remaining fixtures, just not the next one.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I agree, this City side on its day can torment experienced players, let alone a young academy player.
Got no problem playing some of these youngsters in remaining fixtures, just not the next one.

yep, though if none are involved against hull at home then i'll be pissed.

 

[Bulletspur]

Lloris


Dier Fazio Verts


Yedlin Lamela Dembele Bentaleb Rose


Kane Chadli
​

 

[Shea]

Lloris


Dier Fazio Verts


Yedlin Lamela Dembele Bentaleb Rose


Kane Chadli
​

Would be very risky to suddenly switch to this formation I think

To be fair we have little to lose I guess - although with Villa in the cup final there's the race for top 6 which is very heated

I guess the extra bodies in the CB position could come in useful and allow the fullbacks to roam and provide more attacking width

I see your logic and how it might work but I think it could equally be a recipe for another balls up and a heavy beat down

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It doesn't always work like that though, BC. We could have the best youth man-managers and psychologists/psychiatrists on our books in the league, and it might still not be enough to pick a kid up after situations like that. There is just absolutely no guarantee it wouldn't hurt the kid.

True, having it happen against one of the best would help according to reason. But when you're in that situation, reason doesn't always help, regardless of how much there is. I've been there, I've been well out of confidence and there wasn't a thing my coach could say or I could say to myself to pick me out of it. Sure, you could write that off as I was just a mentally weak player should you so desire, but I was older and more mature than Ogilvie and the fact of the matter is we have no indication whatsoever as to whether he could handle it or not. What we do know is he's never played a second or professional football in his life, so he'd have a very poor frame of reference to compare to if he gets worked by Navas, thus putting him at all the more risk. Yes, there is the possibility he could stifle Navas and consequently have a fantastic debut and confidence surge, but nonetheless the chances of that and the opposing risk involved are just not favorable.

It's different for an attacker, as even if they don't score they don't have to take personal blame for a poor result, especially if he's a kid. But for a fullback, imagine if he were to make one mistake, just one mistake that Navas punished, blistered by him, and took it to the house. All of that in front of 40,000 present fans and millions watching all over the world. That could be devastating to a young defender, especially when he's never even played in front of more than a couple thousand present fans before.

There really aren't many easy baptisms any more. If a kids going to make it, one of the most important ingredients they are going to need is character, and that will include surviving the odd early difficult moments.

In the EPL a full back could could just as easily get embarrassed by Bolassi, Zaha, Ameobi (all of ours have) as Navas and Silva.

 

[yusrisafri]

Paulinho played relatively well for his low standard against a side that have now lost 7 in a row, and now some people think he should start in midfield against City. Short-sighted some of you.

 

[DaSpurs]

There really aren't many easy baptisms any more. If a kids going to make it, one of the most important ingredients they are going to need is character, and that will include surviving the odd early difficult moments.

In the EPL a full back could could just as easily get embarrassed by Bolassi, Zaha, Ameobi (all of ours have) as Navas and Silva.

Everything you say here is true, and I like the line "there aren't many easy baptisms any more" as that is IMO a truth which is under-appreciated. But IMO, that "early difficult moment" is excessive in this case. There are better ways to do it, such as against Hull, but I think this scenario is over the top for a young fullback who hasn't played a second of professional football before.

With Onomah I think there is just enough reason as Eriksen needs a sitter anyway, I think Onomah can physically hold his own in the Prem, and because I think guys who play for big clubs such as City are less inclined to rough up young players. They've made it, there is literally no motivation, even subconsciously, for them to use excessive force with a kid. You can't say the same regarding a player such as Charlie Adam or Ryan Shawcross. So he'd just be going out there with little expectation and seeing what he can do against the very best one of the world's toughest leagues has to offer. If he fucks up, he's lost the ball higher up the pitch with plenty of cover behind him.

With Ogilvie though, they'll be looking for nerves and every little mistake, and consequently looking to capitalize upon those in attempt to ensure they at least get fourth. Pellegrini would also probably even specifically instruct his men to attack that side upon seeing the team sheet. I just don't think that would be a good situation at all for a kid with zero experience to be in.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Everything you say here is true, and I like the line "there aren't many easy baptisms any more" as that is IMO a truth which is under-appreciated. But IMO, that "early difficult moment" is excessive in this case. There are better ways to do it, such as against Hull, but I think this scenario is over the top for a young fullback who hasn't played a second of professional football before.

With Onomah I think there is just enough reason as Eriksen needs a sitter anyway, I think Onomah can physically hold his own in the Prem, and because I think guys who play for big clubs such as City are less inclined to rough up young players. They've made it, there is literally no motivation, even subconsciously, for them to use excessive force with a kid. You can't say the same regarding a player such as Charlie Adam or Ryan Shawcross. So he'd just be going out there with little expectation and seeing what he can do against the very best one of the world's toughest leagues has to offer. If he fucks up, he's lost the ball higher up the pitch with plenty of cover behind him.

With Ogilvie though, they'll be looking for nerves and every little mistake, and consequently looking to capitalize upon those in attempt to ensure they at least get fourth. Pellegrini would also probably even specifically instruct his men to attack that side upon seeing the team sheet. I just don't think that would be a good situation at all for a kid with zero experience to be in.

I have never had the reticence to play kids we've spent years teaching that some have. I know they will need character as well as ability and if they've got it they'll cope. You can procrastinate all you like, trying to find them the "perfect" debut, but at the end if the day, at some point you have to have the courage and faith to give them a chance.

ManC with virtually nothing at stake is, for me, a great opportunity, not one that should be feared.

 

[DaSpurs]

I have never had the reticence to play kids we've spent years teaching that some have. I know they will need character as well as ability and if they've got it they'll cope. You can procrastinate all you like, trying to find them the "perfect" debut, but at the end if the day, at some point you have to have the courage and faith to give them a chance.

ManC with virtually nothing at stake is, for me, a great opportunity, not one that should be feared.

Yeah, see... that's just it then, if the kid struggles (as is highly likely against a City side trying to secure top four), then he'll have it in his mind he can't cope as he lacks that crucial frame of reference from other professional matches. If you tell a kid, "if you've got it, you'll do just fine;" and he doesn't, that's all the more damaging because he has no other evidence from other matches to reinforce himself.

Waiting a week for Stoke or a couple weeks for Hull is hardly critical procrastination, or in truth given how young he is, until even next season. There's a very thin line between courage and making an outright poor decision, and in this case I don't think it worth flirting with that line. Much better to wait a week or two and put him in a much more appropriate situation if we want to debut him this season.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yeah, see... that's just it then, if the kid struggles (as is highly likely against a City side trying to secure top four), then he'll have it in his mind he can't cope as he lacks that crucial frame of reference from other professional matches. If you tell a kid, "if you've got it, you'll do just fine;" and he doesn't, that's all the more damaging because he has no other evidence from other matches to reinforce himself.

Waiting a week for Stoke or a couple weeks for Hull is hardly critical procrastination, or in truth given how young he is, until even next season. There's a very thin line between courage and making an outright poor decision, and in this case I don't think it worth flirting with that line. Much better to wait a week or two and put him in a much more appropriate situation if we want to debut him this season.

I simply don't feel the same. I really think you're massively over exaggerating the mental fragility of these kids. I can't believe for a nano second that our coaches would allow a kid to be mentally destroyed by one game against some great players.

 

[DaSpurs]

I simply don't feel the same. I really think you're massively over exaggerating the mental fragility of these kids. I can't believe for a nano second that our coaches would allow a kid to be mentally destroyed by one game against some great players.

Well mate if you want to take that route, the fact is, no one debuts defenders in matches like this if they have a choice and for good reason, and so I hardly think I'm the one over-exaggerating anything. I think you're massively over-exaggerating the ability of external coaching influence to prepare a 19 year old to face pressure unlike anything you or I have likely ever experienced. It's not about fragility or weakness on the part of the kid, it's the fact that it's a kid that's being placed into an unbelievably stressful situation with zero, literally zero, frame of reference let alone experience.

There's a massive difference between dropping a child into a pool to teach it how to swim, and dropping it into a shark tank. You're accusing me of thinking the child is "fragile" if he doesn't escape the sharks, but what I'm actually saying is that it's just really not a good idea to drop a child into a tank full of sharks.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Kane
Townsend-------------- Chadli
Eriksen Bentaleb Mason
Verts Fazio Dier Yedlin
Hugo​

 

[Monkey boy]

Paulinho played relatively well for his low standard against a side that have now lost 7 in a row, and now some people think he should start in midfield against City. Short-sighted some of you.

Thanks Yoda

 

[yusrisafri]

Thanks Yoda

Very welcome you are monkey

 

[Francis Gibbs]

Lloris
Dier Verts Fazio Rose
Bentaleb Stambouli
Townsend Eriksen Chadli
Kane

Verts at LB if Rose still out with Dier in the middle and Yedlin at RB

 

[talkshowhost86]

If Rose is fit I'd go:

Lloris

Dier Fazio Vertonghen Rose

Stambouli Bentaleb

Eriksen Mason Chadli

Kane
​

Perhaps harsh to drop Lamela after he actually contributed something (albeit with his arm) but we HAVE to be more compact in this game and that for me means having more of a 4-3-3.

Mason can get forwards and not be in the deeper role he's struggled with recently, but can also hare about and badger their deeper lying midfielders. Stambo does the defensive midfield role (which currently nobody is doing) and Bentaleb can be a bit more box to box.

I suppose there's an argument to play Lamela instead of Chadli because Lamela is better at the pressing element, and I wouldn't be totally against that, but Chadli is just so much more of a goal threat, and if we get chances against City we need to take them.

 

[jezz]

If the kids are good enough they will get a game.
I don't think any new blood will get a game against City.
I could be wrong though.

 

[jezz]

If Rose is fit I'd go:

Lloris

Dier Fazio Vertonghen Rose

Stambouli Bentaleb

Eriksen Mason Chadli

Kane
​

Perhaps harsh to drop Lamela after he actually contributed something (albeit with his arm) but we HAVE to be more compact in this game and that for me means having more of a 4-3-3.

Mason can get forwards and not be in the deeper role he's struggled with recently, but can also hare about and badger their deeper lying midfielders. Stambo does the defensive midfield role (which currently nobody is doing) and Bentaleb can be a bit more box to box.

I suppose there's an argument to play Lamela instead of Chadli because Lamela is better at the pressing element, and I wouldn't be totally against that, but Chadli is just so much more of a goal threat, and if we get chances against City we need to take them.

2 games a goal and assist.
And we've looked better than the previous few games, coincidence?
Maybe

 

[talkshowhost86]

2 games a goal and assist.
And we've looked better than the previous few games, coincidence?
Maybe

I really do think it's a coincidence, or it's certainly nothing to do with Lamela who was largely pants against Newcastle and not exactly overwhelming against Saints.

I was pleased to see him actually make a run into the box against Southampton though. Can't remember him doing that much this season so hopefully he'll continue to do that if he's played. And at least he seemed to have cut out most of the stupid giving the ball away as well.

I just think that if it's a straight decision between Lamela and Chadli at the moment you have to go with the guy who's scored 12 goals this season.

I'd say let's try playing Lamela in behind Kane, but against City I think he'd get mullered by their defensive midfielders.