Team v Swansea

[Kendall]

I'm working on getting to watch it, it's on here at 1am. Baring in mind that's 1 hour after midnight on NYE, it's going to be a bit of a mission to pull ourselves away from the houseparty we're going to, jump on a train and get into the City for kick off :-D

 

[ChristianBaler]

Who was the 1?

it was never 1 up front, it was 3. The only way you could say it wasn't 4-3-3 is by saying the midfield was 1-2, with Modric and Parker roaming infront of Sandro.

Adebayor was in no way shape or form playing as a 1 up top, all three were given a free role in a front line infront of a midfield trio.

This posts explains what I thought we played


"For the entire game we played a 4-1-4-1 formation that looked like this (would be easier to if I could include arrows*):

Walker--Gallas--Kaboul--BAE
-------------Sandro-----------
--VDV--Parker---Modric--Bale
--------------------------------
------------ADE----------------

*Within this, VDV often moved to his left into the CM and Bale often moved forward and to his right into a more offensive position.

Some points that are important about our formation against NCFC:
1. We dominated a far less talented team and therefore our players were able to play with less structure than they would have if they had to play stricter defense.
2. Sandro played on top of the CBs and did not move forward, instead playing conservatively covering our back line, this left parker (who played a right CM) and modders (who played a Left CM) to move as they wished and not have to be too mindful to their defensive transitions. This was also a big change to how Sandro/Parker played together against chelsea - where their roles were often confused.
3. Both Modric and Parker were reluctant to make runs from the midfield up into the space behind/beside Ade. This created a problem for us and resulted in too much space between our flat CMs and Ade.
4. The space between the CMs and Ade (see #4) was often filled by runs/movement by Bale. Unfortunately this was not filled by VDV (who didn't move as advanced as Bale did in our offensive transitions). VDV rather played a supporting role on the right CM (that mirrored modrics role on the left CM) and crowded the space in front of Parker. Both Bale and VDV floated freely, but especially in our offensive third, this meant 5 spurs players right around the top of the penalty area. This became too crowded and made it difficult for us to find space to create solid chances.
5. Ade therefore was left a little bit isolated in our offensive transitions and needed penetrating runs from the midfield which only came from Bale - we needed similar runs by Modric, Parker and VDV (during transitions and possession). Instead, if Bale was not there the ball would eventually go out to walker or be knocked around by modric/vdv without penetration. This game screamed for JD, shame he was not available.
6. We ended up being much too narrow, as talented as our players are they do better with space and pace than they do with possession and tight passing situations - we are no close-quarter tiki-tac team. Mostly our only width came from our FBs, and our crossing into the box rarely looked threatening."

 

[Kendall]

I just do not agree with you and stuggle to see what you were watching. Bale said himself and Harry also said that he was given a free role in a front 3. Bale saying he's always played as a wide man, so getting more freedom up top was really enjoyable.

Your formation and points make no reference to the fact that often Adebayor would often be right or left, looking to play in Bale or VDV through the middle. He was never playing as a 1 and this shows in both of the goals as well.

 

[ChristianBaler]

I struggle to see how often VDV was playing that high up the pitch......he was never in line with Adebayor......Bale was at times but like you said, he was given the freedom to play wherever he wanted to.

It's not that big of a deal to me what we play, I just want results. Here's another way we looked to me when going forward.

-----Gallas---Kaboul---------->Defensive line
----------Sandro--------BAE
-----Parker------------------
Walker--VDV--Modric---------->Midfield line
----------------Bale--------
----------Ade-------------------->Forward line

 

[Chinaspur]

This posts explains what I thought we played


"For the entire game we played a 4-1-4-1 formation that looked like this (would be easier to if I could include arrows*):

Walker--Gallas--Kaboul--BAE
-------------Sandro-----------
--VDV--Parker---Modric--Bale
--------------------------------
------------ADE----------------

*Within this, VDV often moved to his left into the CM and Bale often moved forward and to his right into a more offensive position.

Some points that are important about our formation against NCFC:
1. We dominated a far less talented team and therefore our players were able to play with less structure than they would have if they had to play stricter defense.
2. Sandro played on top of the CBs and did not move forward, instead playing conservatively covering our back line, this left parker (who played a right CM) and modders (who played a Left CM) to move as they wished and not have to be too mindful to their defensive transitions. This was also a big change to how Sandro/Parker played together against chelsea - where their roles were often confused.
3. Both Modric and Parker were reluctant to make runs from the midfield up into the space behind/beside Ade. This created a problem for us and resulted in too much space between our flat CMs and Ade.
4. The space between the CMs and Ade (see #4) was often filled by runs/movement by Bale. Unfortunately this was not filled by VDV (who didn't move as advanced as Bale did in our offensive transitions). VDV rather played a supporting role on the right CM (that mirrored modrics role on the left CM) and crowded the space in front of Parker. Both Bale and VDV floated freely, but especially in our offensive third, this meant 5 spurs players right around the top of the penalty area. This became too crowded and made it difficult for us to find space to create solid chances.
5. Ade therefore was left a little bit isolated in our offensive transitions and needed penetrating runs from the midfield which only came from Bale - we needed similar runs by Modric, Parker and VDV (during transitions and possession). Instead, if Bale was not there the ball would eventually go out to walker or be knocked around by modric/vdv without penetration. This game screamed for JD, shame he was not available.
6. We ended up being much too narrow, as talented as our players are they do better with space and pace than they do with possession and tight passing situations - we are no close-quarter tiki-tac team. Mostly our only width came from our FBs, and our crossing into the box rarely looked threatening."

This is the best analysis I have seen. I saw that space too and it worried me. I bet Harry saw it too. He is more concerned about where the goals will come from than most on here. I doubt we will see quite that formation when everyone is fit.

 

[guy]

I think you're over analysing the shiite out of it!

 

[Yid-ol]

Good news then. I suspect Defoe and Lennon will be in the team to face West Brom.

As for Swansea, same team as Norwich...with King in for Gallas, and the latter playing against West Brom. I would rest Parker against West Brom and play a midfield of Lennon, Sandro, Modric, Bale...Ade and Defoe up top. VDV on the bench if we need him. Or VDV behind Ade with Dizzle on the bench.

Need to start rotating a little.

So the same team, but put in King, Lennon, and Defoe :shrug: so not the same team then is it? :wink:

 

[Danny1]

So the same team, but put in King, Lennon, and Defoe :shrug: so not the same team then is it? :wink:

:rofl:

 

[MrWoolley]

Same again please, just with Ledders back for Gallas.

 

[sloth]

We'll play exactly the same team, except maybe King for Gallas:

Friedel
Walker Kaboul King BAE
Sandro
Parker Modric
VdV Bale
Ade​

Who was the 1?

it was never 1 up front, it was 3. The only way you could say it wasn't 4-3-3 is by saying the midfield was 1-2, with Modric and Parker roaming infront of Sandro.

Adebayor was in no way shape or form playing as a 1 up top, all three were given a free role in a front line infront of a midfield trio.

It was something like this (obviously the limitations of sketching a formation using words on a page makes it seem narrower and more strata'd than it was)

DM
CM CM
AM.........AM
St​

Basically Sandro just sat and almost never left his position patrolling the space in front of our defence.

Parker and Modric played traditional CM roles, albeit with the insurance of Sandro behind them.

VdV and Bale played free roles and you'd find them playing deep, advanced, central and on the flanks depending.

Ade played the striker. Because of the player he is, he too roamed and this means there's a blurring between the role he played in the team and that of Bale and VdV, and so I understand the temptation to simply lump wha he did in with the roles Bale and VdV fulfilled, but it was different from their AM roles.

For instance he's still the out-ball target man. And for all he likes to spin out to the flanks, he's still, the majority of the time the target man in the centre, the point of our attacks.

 

[Spurger King]

Before the Norwich game I was convinced we should rest Parker. I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried, so I'm going with the same team, with Ledley in place of Gallas.

 

[HotspurFC1950]

Harry will never rest Parker. He is the main man and has only been playing once a week up til now.

Parker would have to be injured to be left out.

I believe Harry will also play Gallas ahead of Kaboul..

 

[vegassd]

After Swansea we have three very winnable games at home (not inc. Cheltenham) so any rotation should happen there.

I would say play the same team as against Norwich and there see where we are in terms of injuries against West Brom. Maybe bring in Defoe and Lennon then if they are ready.

 

[RuskyM]

Before the Norwich game I was convinced we should rest Parker. I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried, so I'm going with the same team, with Ledley in place of Gallas.

I agree with the hood.

 

[riversmonkey]

Ledley in for Gallas, or Kaboul if he's still carrying a hamstring problem.

Aside from that, pretty much the same team from the Norwich game. Swansea keep the ball well, so I think we must aim to counter attack, and be quite patient in our approach.

 

[Legacy]

Before the Norwich game I was convinced we should rest Parker. I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried, so I'm going with the same team, with Ledley in place of Gallas.

But we should be resting Parker. He might not be slowing down right now, but that's not to say he won't be feeling the effects of all the game time during our difficult February-March period where we're going to need both him and Sandro to be as fit, fresh and hungry as possible.

Protect him where possible now and we'll be rewarded for it later. We're going up against Swansea, it's not a game that Parker is absolutely vital for. A midfield trio of Sandro, Modric and van der Vaart, with Bale and Kranjcar using the flanks is perfectly fine. Parker can come off the bench for the last fifteen minutes if we need the extra grit late on.

 

[Spurger King]

No King or Lennon tomorrow. JD a doubt.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Friedel​

Walker Gallas Kaboul BAE​

Sandro Parker​

VdV Modric Bale​

Adebayor​

I think if we're going to rest Parker then it needs to be in the home games we've got coming up. Swansea will try and knock it about a bit so having both Sandro and Parker will help break that up. As with Norwich the three behind Adebayor can go where they like and we'll hopefully beat Swansea at their own game.​

 

[stevenqoz]

4 5 1 again......I must have an older copy of FM than you lot

 

[raymar31]

JD is fit tomorrow.