The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 10 June 2011

[Mr Pink]

Campbell is a very different striker, Think Zigic scored more and he was only signed in jan i think. Carew if fit is better, He can head a ball properly and hold it up better. Heskey is crouch, And Jerome is higher on my fantasy league than Crouch. (best i could do) Next...

I know Campbell is a different striker...just talking about strikers in gereral, Carew has been off the boil for sometime now, Heskey isn't Crouch - he's far stronger but has nowhere near the composure with the ball at his feet that Crouch does, and who cares if Jerome has done better in your fantasy team...he's nothing special whatsoever.

 

[sak11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_709574&v=RIWzPMlUQhg&feature=iv

he does the do do da dance lol

potl told us so

gyan has previous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ2eF0kcsrg

and if I saw him doing this celebration at the park lane/shelf corner flag I would seriously wet myself... bring it on!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnm8S0PTts

 

[ryantegan]

What in the name of all that is Holy was thatEekEekEekEekEek
Sunderland can feckin keep him if that is what he does in his spare time

He is BabyJet! aka Gyan3

:rofl:

 

[Viva la Tottenham]

What in the name of all that is Holy was thatEekEekEekEekEek
Sunderland can feckin keep him if that is what he does in his spare time

 

[TallBlokePH]

The article does more then that it shows that in percentage of goals scored Crouch is among the highest all-time in the PL. His knockdowns can easily been proven by the amount of assists he has got this season, and seasons before this, or you could just ask VdV

Nearly mate - the % totals were for the goals each player had scored. The higher in the table that it showed a player is, the more likely they were to have scored with their head, when they scored. It ignores conversion rate for a start, and doesn't account for how many goals overall a player actually scored.

A player could score 10 goals total, but if he'd scored 9 of those 10 with his head he'd have been top of that table. That same player could also have had say 100 chances to score a headed goal and still only gotten 9 from them, in which case you'd have to say he's not actually that good at headers.

Same with the knock-downs/assists, it doesn't give the full picture because for a start it doesn't show how likely it is that an attempt at a knock-down will even reach a player on the same team.

Not having a dig at you btw, it's the clown who wrote the artice in the first place I've really got the hump with! :wink:

 

[Berglad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_709574&v=RIWzPMlUQhg&feature=iv

he does the do do da dance lol

potl told us so

awful!

 

[DoublePivot]

and if I saw him doing this celebration at the park lane/shelf corner flag I would seriously wet myself... bring it on!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnm8S0PTts

But you have to bring Zenden in that case to make it a real party

[yt]Pz6vP6yLobw[/yt]

 

[brett.spurs]

VDV is basically an embassador for the club, you sell him and you can wave goodbye to any "top strikers" being interested in joining us. Selling him because our strikers suck is possibly the most backward logic I've ever heard.

 

[codspur]

gyan has previous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ2eF0kcsrg

and if I saw him doing this celebration at the park lane/shelf corner flag I would seriously wet myself... bring it on!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnm8S0PTts

He is BabyJet! aka Gyan3

:rofl:

Seriously WTFEek

 

[gibbospurs]

I know Campbell is a different striker...just talking about strikers in gereral, Carew has been off the boil for sometime now, Heskey isn't Crouch - he's far stronger but has nowhere near the composure with the ball at his feet that Crouch does, and who cares if Jerome has done better in your fantasy team...he's nothing special whatsoever.

He is still pants.:wink: 4 inches shorter he would be working in tesco.

 

[TallBlokePH]

If you want a prolific finisher, Crouch isn't your man, but some strikers play for the team's cause not their own, and often benefit the team more than players like Bent (as an example) who often score plenty but cost the team overall because their team play is poor.

Throughout his Career, players and teams have done quite well when Crouch plays.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't want an upgrade, because I would, but players that can contribute to the team like him and score a shed load are the nirvana. The elusive uber striker. The Drogba's, Berbatov's, Kanoute's etc.

Torres has just moved for 50 million pounds, but if you compare his and Crouch's performances this season you'd be hard pushed to separate their overall contribution to their sides.

Torres has a score/assist rate (10/4) of one every 189 minutes. Crouch (4/6) every 193. Crouch makes an accurate pass to a team mate every 4.2 minutes, Torres 6.1. Crouch passing to a team mate 33% more over the course of season. Both have mid sixties completion rates.

Crouch creates a chance for someone else every 87 minutes, Torres 83.


Whilst Torres has had an indifferent season, and I would still take him over Crouch of course, let's not forget that Crouch has managed to perform whilst used very sparingly, never having a chance to build up rhythm.

Here's another interesting stat, make of it what you will. From the time we beat AC milan in the San Siro on Feb 15 with Crouch's goal he only started 4 league games. Those four games features our only three wins in the league and the other was our 3-3 draw with Arsenal.

Team stats are dangerous, I know, but I don't think it's a coincidence that we played better as a team with him than we did without.

Now that's a more insightful set of stats than in that article - fair do's for digging those out!

 

[Vedi]

yeh alright, I'll name you more then 5!

Walters
Jones
Fuller
Ebanks-Blake
Fletcher
Klasnic
Kalinic
Vela
Benjani
Roberts
Hoilett
Di Santo
Heskey
Agbonlohor
Best
Ranger
Welbeck
Campbell
Owen
Jo
Chamakh
Bendtner
Ngog
Yakubu
Beckford
Johnson
Keane
Pav

Do you want more?

Crouch 4 goals

Walters 6 goals
Jones 9 goals
Fuller 4 goals
Ebanks-Blake 7 goals
Fletcher 10 goals
Klasnic 4 goals
Kalinic 5 goals
Vela 3 goals
Benjani 3 goals
Roberts 5 goals
Hoilett 5 goals
Di Santo 1 goal
Heskey 3 goals
Agbonlohor 3 goals
Best 6 goals
Ranger 0 goals
Welbeck 6 goals
Campbell 0 goals
Owen 2 goals
Jo 0 goals
Chamakh 7 goals
Bendtner 2 goals
Ngog 2 goals
Yakubu 1 goal
Beckford 8 goals
Johnson 3 goals
Keane 2 goals
Pav 10 goals

So half of them have scored more goals than Crouch, with a far weaker midfield behind them.

And the half that has actually scored less than Crouch, I dont want to check how many minutes they have played compared to him but I would guess most of them have a better minutes per goal ratio than him.

 

[brett.spurs]

It's a stupid list. Most there are better than Crouch but not good enough for us to go and sign.

 

[C0YS]

Nearly mate - the % totals were for the goals each player had scored. The higher in the table that it showed a player is, the more likely they were to have scored with their head, when they scored. It ignores conversion rate for a start, and doesn't account for how many goals overall a player actually scored.

A player could score 10 goals total, but if he'd scored 9 of those 10 with his head he'd have been top of that table. That same player could also have had say 100 chances to score a headed goal and still only gotten 9 from them, in which case you'd have to say he's not actually that good at headers.

Same with the knock-downs/assists, it doesn't give the full picture because for a start it doesn't show how likely it is that an attempt at a knock-down will even reach a player on the same team.

Not having a dig at you btw, it's the clown who wrote the artice in the first place I've really got the hump with! :wink:

Didn't think you where, its all conversation anyway, we all know that we can do better then Crouch, but I'm just fed up with people thinking he is some complete rubbish player, when actually he has his uses. And was vital for our brilliant CL run. The writer of the article is Micheal Cox, who writes everything on the site, really good site actually. Doesn't always get it right.

Anyway this ITK thread has been hijacked far too much so...

I hope the VdV thing isn't true but I can see us entertaining offers, without making him available. But if Inter come in with silly money it will be interesting to see what the club does.

 

[Mr Pink]

Crouch 4 goals

Walters 6 goals
Jones 9 goals
Fuller 4 goals
Ebanks-Blake 7 goals
Fletcher 10 goals
Klasnic 4 goals
Kalinic 5 goals
Vela 3 goals
Benjani 3 goals
Roberts 5 goals
Hoilett 5 goals
Di Santo 1 goal
Heskey 3 goals
Agbonlohor 3 goals
Best 6 goals
Ranger 0 goals
Welbeck 6 goals
Campbell 0 goals
Owen 2 goals
Jo 0 goals
Chamakh 7 goals
Bendtner 2 goals
Ngog 2 goals
Yakubu 1 goal
Beckford 8 goals
Johnson 3 goals
Keane 2 goals
Pav 10 goals

So half of them have scored more goals than Crouch, with a far weaker midfield behind them.

And the half that has actually scored less than Crouch, I dont want to check how many minutes they have played compared to him but I would guess most of them have a better minutes per goal ratio than him.

Crouch hasn't played that often in the second half of the season, and if you were to factor in assits in terms of this assessment you'll find Crouch is more useful than a lot on that list...

 

[codspur]

But you have to bring Zenden in that case to make it a real party

[yt]Pz6vP6yLobw[/yt]

Having now had the opportunity to see Zenden dance I would now like to fully retract anything negative I have said about Mr A Gyan. I would like instead to never ever see Mr B Zenden throw shapes, cut rug or anything of that ilk again as long as I live.

 

[mw828]

Crouch hasn't played that often in the second half of the season, and if you were to factor in assits in terms of this assessment you'll find Crouch is more useful than a lot on that list...

most of those players played less than crouch. min/goal or min/(goal or assist) would be helpful though.

and gabby wasn't used as a striker. mostly out wide.

 

[Vedi]

I know statistics arent everything, but its still alarming that all of our strikers are competing goals wise with the players you mentioned and lose to most of them in that statistic.

 

[Singaspursofsixspence]

But if Inter come in with silly money it will be interesting to see what the club does.

ask for sniejder in exchange? :shrug:

 

[nferno]

By the way, if the VDV stuff is true, I would be immensely fucked off. Along with Modric he is our only intelligent footballer.

id be beyond pissed if we wanted to get rid of vdv to accomodate parker in a new formation as he's obviously one of redknapp's 3 "fantastic players".