The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 27th July 2015

[Danners9]

No Chiriches, Mason, Townsend, Soldado or Adebayor in MLS squad. Apart from the obvious Chiriches and Adebayor.
Are the other three deemed surplus to requirements as I'm sure I've seen them in pre season training

COYS

Soldado was pictured on a flight to Spain, it's probably in the Soldado thread.
Mason and Townsend are both injured. Mason at the end of last season, Townsend has a shoulder injury and Ben Pearce says he is 'touch and go' for the first game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Does it? Most PL clubs are in a negative net spend but still making a profit. There are other revenue streams such as TV, sponsorship deals and gate receipts. Maybe our club is different because we're having to pay for a stadium but generally net spend is certainly not everything to most clubs in the PL.

Lets not drift this off topic in here, if you want quote me and take it elsewhere fine, but the bottom line for any company is not it's gross revenue or it's gross expenditure (of course they matter but only in as much as they decide the net) it's the net of those two things, it's profit or loss.

 

[Trw3011]

Levy won't pay extra airfare for any signing when we will be going to German for a couple of days would rather wait and fly them back with the squad .

 

[brownhead]

Soldado was pictured on a flight to Spain, it's probably in the Soldado thread.
Mason and Townsend are both injured. Mason at the end of last season, Townsend has a shoulder injury and Ben Pearce says he is 'touch and go' for the first game.

I Forgot Lennon too!

Cheers for the info though, didn't know that.

 

[robertgoulet]

No Chiriches, Mason, Townsend, Soldado or Adebayor in MLS squad. Apart from the obvious Chiriches and Adebayor.
Are the other three deemed surplus to requirements as I'm sure I've seen them in pre season training

COYS

No Rose either. Had friends at the airport when they arrived in Denver. Said he lost his passport and didn't get on the plane!

 

[ardiles]

Wow just wow. What a day for itk. I find this amongst another announcement that the wife is pregnant. Excited just a little!!!

Congrats!
The club should sign you as Soldado's replacement. At least we know you're a better 'striker' !

 

[Trix]

How can any normally run company not be obsessed with net spend, it means everything ?

Net spend means absolutely nothing as far as the quality of the playing squad is concerned because we have performed exceptionally well as far as buying and selling over the last 5 or 6 years. It seems to me people are just looking for reasons to chastise Levy, and him not spending Enic's money is a good stick to beat him with. The fact is though we are still spending boatloads because he has made huge profits on previous purchases, something some fans seem unable to understand. Purchases that I should add we would have lost whoever the chairman was, because they were all determined to play for far bigger clubs.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

No Rose either. Had friends at the airport when they arrived in Denver. Said he lost his passport and didn't get on the plane!

Rose has been named to the squad - he could get a re-issue and board another flight.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Rose has been named to the squad - he could get a re-issue and board another flight.

Yeah I doubt the fine for fast tracking will be too much of an issue for him!

 

[Nanky_1988]

Net spend means absolutely nothing as far as the quality of the playing squad is concerned because we have performed exceptionally well as far as buying and selling over the last 5 or 6 years. It seems to me people are just looking for reasons to chastise Levy, and him not spending Enic's money is a good stick to beat him with. The fact is though we are still spending boatloads because he has made huge profits on previous purchases, something some fans seem unable to understand. Purchases that I should add we would have lost whoever the chairman was, because they were all determined to play for far bigger clubs.

We understand but I think the Net Spend thing frustrates because people think the club aren't going for it in the transfer market and are just spending what they make from
Sales! Its not like we go and spend 50-60m on top of what we make from sales! Maybe people feel its a lack of ambition as people want to see us shell out on top players!

I understand however that the club cant always attract the 30-40m players that would gaurentee us top 4! Plus they may be reluctant after we broke our transfer record 3 times in one window! Plus the fact Paulinho, Soldado and Lamela have been seen as failures so far unfortunately!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Net spend means absolutely nothing as far as the quality of the playing squad is concerned because we have performed exceptionally well as far as buying and selling over the last 5 or 6 years. It seems to me people are just looking for reasons to chastise Levy, and him not spending Enic's money is a good stick to beat him with. The fact is though we are still spending boatloads because he has made huge profits on previous purchases, something some fans seem unable to understand. Purchases that I should add we would have lost whoever the chairman was, because they were all determined to play for far bigger clubs.

Right, but it means something in as much as it has a bearing on what we actually do spend. Until last year's bumper 65m profit (which I believe will be countered in this years accounts when the purchases made following Bale's sale are accounted) the previous 4 years we averaged a net loss as a business of about 2m per year over that phase, so what we actually spend will always be influenced by the net margins, not like ManC say, who apart from complying with FFP have no need to balance their net profit loss as a business.

Yes we can spend 26m on Lamela, but only if we know we can counter that with incoming revenue. That's what people mean when they make reference to net spend.

 

[Trix]

We understand but I think the Net Spend thing frustrates because people think the club aren't going for it in the transfer market and are just spending what they make from
Sales! Its not like we go and spend 50-60m on top of what we make from sales! Maybe people feel its a lack of ambition as people want to see us shell out on top players!

I understand however that the club cant always attract the 30-40m players that would gaurentee us top 4! Plus they may be reluctant after we broke our transfer record 3 times in one window! Plus the fact Paulinho, Soldado and Lamela have been seen as failures so far unfortunately!

Spending £50-60mil on top means paying players that are worth that money huge great salaries plus agents expenses. Or did you think they would all work for free? Don't forget that wages, signing on fee's, exit clauses and agents fee's are not factored in to net spends but all have to be paid by someone.

 

[Nanky_1988]

Spending £50-60mil on top means paying players that are worth that money huge great salaries plus agents expenses. Or did you think they would all work for free? Don't forget that wages, signing on fee's, exit clauses and agents fee's are not factored in to net spends but all have to be paid by someone.

I know im not arguing with the transfer policy like some because atm we can't afford to pay these type of fees plus the wages! We tried with the Bale money and didnt spend it well IMO!!

Signing younger players with potential is the best we can do atm until we increase our revenue in the new stadium!!

 

[CockOnBall]

@Bus-Conductor
No offence, but it's obvious that the club needs to spend less than what it brings in generally i.e. profit and loss. NO ONE is denying that basic business principle. What people are contesting is whether player purchases need to be level with fees recouped from player sales aka "net spend" in a football context.

 

[Trix]

Right, but it means something in as much as it has a bearing on what we actually do spend. Until last year's bumper 65m profit (which I believe will be countered in this years accounts when the purchases made following Bale's sale are accounted) the previous 4 years we averaged a net loss as a business of about 2m per year over that phase, so what we actually spend will always be influenced by the net margins, not like ManC say, who apart from complying with FFP have no need to balance their net profit loss as a business.

Yes we can spend 26m on Lamela, but only if we know we can counter that with incoming revenue. That's what people mean when they make reference to net spend.

Right, but it means something in as much as it has a bearing on what we actually do spend. Until last year's bumper 65m profit (which I believe will be countered in this years accounts when the purchases made following Bale's sale are accounted) the previous 4 years we averaged a net loss as a business of about 2m per year over that phase, so what we actually spend will always be influenced by the net margins, not like ManC say, who apart from complying with FFP have no need to balance their net profit loss as a business.

Yes we can spend 26m on Lamela, but only if we know we can counter that with incoming revenue. That's what people mean when they make reference to net spend.

Which is fair enough but I think of those mentioning net spend very few are doing so from that rationale. Most bring it up purely as a way to attack Enic, and as I say it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the playing staff. I have said it before and I will say it again, purchases are far more about the wage bill than the cost of the transfer itself.

 

[SpartanSpur]

We understand but I think the Net Spend thing frustrates because people think the club aren't going for it in the transfer market and are just spending what they make from
Sales! Its not like we go and spend 50-60m on top of what we make from sales! Maybe people feel its a lack of ambition as people want to see us shell out on top players!

I understand however that the club cant always attract the 30-40m players that would gaurentee us top 4! Plus they may be reluctant after we broke our transfer record 3 times in one window! Plus the fact Paulinho, Soldado and Lamela have been seen as failures so far unfortunately!

This window will say a lot IMO. There are no forced big money sales this year to balance the books. We have clearly targeted Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Martial and Berahino in the £18-25m bracket and have already signed Alderweireld for £11m, a good but not vital signing (compared to DM and a pacey attacker).

We simply need to sign key players for these positions, no excuses, so if we don't the pessimists are spot on.

Sales are going well but we only have approx £10m and possibly the £11m school funds right now. Soldado, Vlad, Lennon and Ade may bring in £15-20m at best. Although that then doesn't over stretch us too much even if those two cost £45m. No one is asking for us to spend £50m net, just to bring in the required targets if possible.

I think we all agree we only need 2 key signings and 1-2 backup/high potential forwards if all the expected players leave (possibly add Carroll and Townsend to those mentioned above).

E.g. current net gain = 10m + School £11m
proposed incomings = JM £20m, SB £20m, Werner £11m
proposed outgoings = Ade £0, RS £7m, VC £5m, AL £6m

That would require a net spend of £12m, and if Townsend went we could probably replace him for a profit to reduce this. Not to mention a further reduction if we sold Carroll.

I don't see any reason why we can't do these deals financially...

 

[1971 Spur]

Net profit is the bottom line. "Net spend" is nothing more than a control figure for player trading. Means absolutely nothing other than as an indicator. We could sell our entire squad and take in a couple of dozen free transfers but, though the net spend would be a massive figure, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the quality of the playing staff had reduced. (example for illustrative purposes only. I do not recommend this happens). Now off to the accounting thread with you all..

 

[Trees]

Which is fair enough but I think of those mentioning net spend very few are doing so from that rationale. Most bring it up purely as a way to attack Enic, and as I say it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the playing staff. I have said it before and I will say it again, purchases are far more about the wage bill than the cost of the transfer itself.

Which with a 36k stadium what a brilliant job Levy has done. Yes we all want success but hopefully in 10 years we will have a team at the top table in a gleaming stadium.

 

[Blackrat1299]

No Chiriches, Mason, Townsend, Soldado or Adebayor in MLS squad. Apart from the obvious Chiriches and Adebayor.
Are the other three deemed surplus to requirements as I'm sure I've seen them in pre season training

COYS

Mason is injured.

 

[ever]

oh my baby jebus, accountancy talk is boring