The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 30th July

[The Watcher]

Don't forget a £35m training ground - there is only one pot of money so its come from the same pot as the players - but there should be long term returns from that.

Add another £10-15m on top of that.

 

[bgoldie]

Dragon1 on FTL re: rumours that a fee has been agreed with QPR for Defoe:

unless somethings changed since fri there have been no bids for him,he has 2 yrs left on contract so last chance to cash in for us,its no secret he wants to play reguarily,something could well happen on this

 

[HappySpur]

Dragon1 on FTL re: rumours that a fee has been agreed with QPR for Defoe:

Makes sense. Levy just went through a massive loss. I doubt he'd sell a player while they are dealing with a death in the family. I imagine he will move, but not right yet.

 

[SugarRay]

So we could well be down to Harry Kane as our lone senior striker in a couple of weeks!

AVB must think the lads got it to carry such a load on his own!

 

[Danners9]

Don't forget a £35m training ground - there is only one pot of money so its come from the same pot as the players - but there should be long term returns from that.

Are you sure it would come from the transfer pot? A lot of companies have an operating budget and a capital budget, it may be that the long term training ground project has been budgeted for out of the usual operating costs since the planning stage.. operating costs such as pitch maintenance, stewarding, catering, that sort of thing.. a few million a year diverted away from profit into that.

Or through loans, like the kind they took out to purchase land adjacent to the stadium.

I don't think it's necessarily money taken from the transfers.

Just a guess. I worked at a council that had 2 budgets from an overall annual income. One was used for things like salaries and short term projects throughout the year and the other for longer term developments.

 

[Cyspurs]

Makes sense. Levy just went through a massive loss. I doubt he'd sell a player while they are dealing with a death in the family. I imagine he will move, but not right yet.

Levy went through a massive loss? why? was he Defoe's cousin's biological father??

 

[Danners9]

Levy went through a massive loss? why? was he Defoe's cousin's biological father??

his mother died, during the euros. Harry was on TV talking about his new contract on the day of the funeral.

 

[Pringle]

So we could well be down to Harry Kane as our lone senior striker in a couple of weeks!

AVB must think the lads got it to carry such a load on his own!

of course we could but on the flip side, we could also have a strike force of Adebayor, Defoe, Kane plus 1 other as well as Moutinho in midfield and Lloris in goal if some ITK is to be believed.

None of the more accredited ITK or reporters have said that Defoe is leaving so I wouldnt expect that to be the case at the moment.

 

[Breezer]

Dragon1 on FTL re: rumours that a fee has been agreed with QPR for Defoe:

No problem! But then we need 3 strikers!

 

[Oshi]

Are you sure it would come from the transfer pot? A lot of companies have an operating budget and a capital budget, it may be that the long term training ground project has been budgeted for out of the usual operating costs since the planning stage.. operating costs such as pitch maintenance, stewarding, catering, that sort of thing.. a few million a year diverted away from profit into that.

Or through loans, like the kind they took out to purchase land adjacent to the stadium.

I don't think it's necessarily money taken from the transfers.

Just a guess. I worked at a council that had 2 budgets from an overall annual income. One was used for things like salaries and short term projects throughout the year and the other for longer term developments.

Im sure i remember reading / hearing Daniel Levy talking about the training ground / stadium finance was "ring fenced" from other club finance - Might have been in one of his open letters to supports some 2 or 3 years ago? But to what extent the transfer / wage budget has "suffered" from this ring fencing is unknown.

 

[Spursidol]

People have mentioned us struggling in terms of wages ect. But we've just sacked our manager, bought in a new manager with a new coaching staff, this sends out the wrong signals for me. Also making noises about being interested in Moutinho, a player who had a 30m transfer clause.

Modric - 33m plus?
Crouch - 10m?
Pav - 10m?
Pienaar - 4.5m?
Bassong - 4m?
Bentley - 3.5m?
JJ - 3.5m?
Defoe - 10m?

Ade - 5m?
Dembele - 8m - 12m?
Lloris - 12m?
CF - who else have we been linked with? Are we going for a younger talent, or someone like Llorente?
Remy/A Johnson - 12m - 15m

I don't believe Levy will offer anyone beyond 80k a week, strikers only cost big money if they have an ego. We buy young talents, who could potentially become top, top player i.e Modric. Would Levy cripple our wage bill if it meant not being able to afford more than one striker?

Regarding our books, we are not a public listed company anymore so I wouldn't be able to make a realistic assumption on what we can, and can't afford. But if Levy sacked Harry because he didn't believe he could take us to the next level, than he's in dreamland if he believes AVB can lead us to fourth without investment into the first 11.

1 Re football finances, this is a tough read but its pretty accurate and unbiased about all the clubs. http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Tottenham Hotspur.

2 If you had been on here a few months ago you might have understood many fans believiung that Redknapp went for non footballing reasons - couple of articles here if yiu scroll down to May/June http://windycoys.blogspot.co.uk/

3 Bassong - 4m?, Bentley - 3.5m?, JJ - 3.5m?, Defoe - 10m?, Gio ?

These may be reasonable guesses - but several have been for sale for several years, so don't pin your hopes on getting these amounts in.

4 'I don't believe Levy will offer anyone beyond 80k a week'

Its not what Levy offers which is the problem - its what strikers are demanding.

5 'We buy young talents, who could potentially become top, top player i.e Modric'

That is certainly Levy's preferred way forward. However sometimes its not possible - eg we do not have a pool of young strikers hence we have to go for an experienced one such as Ade, and despite Levy's negotiations its not cheap at £5m + £6m pa.

Ideally we would get a young striker - but only if available at the 'right' price.

IMO, as said before, there is investment for say 2 strikers and Modric replacement (and maybe another) - but not necessarily on the scale you seem to believe !

 

[spud]

Levy went through a massive loss? why? was he Defoe's cousin's biological father??

Congratulations. You just earned my first ever 'dumb' rating.

 

[vuzp]

Levy went through a massive loss? why? was he Defoe's cousin's biological father??

maybe just a joke but still not very nice mate

 

[Spursidol]

Are you sure it would come from the transfer pot? A lot of companies have an operating budget and a capital budget, it may be that the long term training ground project has been budgeted for out of the usual operating costs since the planning stage.. operating costs such as pitch maintenance, stewarding, catering, that sort of thing.. a few million a year diverted away from profit into that.

Or through loans, like the kind they took out to purchase land adjacent to the stadium.

I don't think it's necessarily money taken from the transfers.

Just a guess. I worked at a council that had 2 budgets from an overall annual income. One was used for things like salaries and short term projects throughout the year and the other for longer term developments.

The fact of the matter is that even with Levy's notorious financial grip, salaries are a big part of receipts - not as bad as Man City where salaries exceed total receipts but high enough so Spurs make almost no profit.

Whilst I am not an expert on TH finances, and think they may hsave funded part of the training ground through a loan - the loan repayments have to come from the same pot of money as transfer funds.

Most clubs sell players to generate transfer funds and Spurs are no exception. We have some transfer funds from the sales of Crouch, Pav, Palacios which may still be available plus Modric's sale proceeeds - but beyond that I doubt verry much if there are the £40m/£50m extra pot of money that some people seem to believe.

 

[Jospur]

I find it interesting that the ITK information seems to have dried up recently. I wonder why? I'm also a little concerned that discussions on players to come to Spurs have moved from ones like Falcao, Lewandowski, Moutinho and the like to players such as Allen and Dembele. High quality to average players. What's up? Are Spurs fans lowering the bar or is there a sense from the Club that we just can't aim as high as we thought we could? Thoughts?

 

[Spursidol]

I find it interesting that the ITK information seems to have dried up recently. I wonder why? I'm also a little concerned that discussions on players to come to Spurs have moved from ones like Falcao, Lewandowski, Moutinho and the like to players such as Allen and Dembele. High quality to average players. What's up? Are Spurs fans lowering the bar or is there a sense from the Club that we just can't aim as high as we thought we could? Thoughts?

A number of posters have talked about Falcao, Hulk etc but never any ITK ro back it up - indeed JJSet has openly said the wages are too high.

ITK has dried up as until Modric and Ade (or another good striker) are done, probably noit a lot more else will get progressed (which would possiblyu generate ITK)

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

Are you sure it would come from the transfer pot? A lot of companies have an operating budget and a capital budget, it may be that the long term training ground project has been budgeted for out of the usual operating costs since the planning stage.. operating costs such as pitch maintenance, stewarding, catering, that sort of thing.. a few million a year diverted away from profit into that.

Or through loans, like the kind they took out to purchase land adjacent to the stadium.

I don't think it's necessarily money taken from the transfers.

Just a guess. I worked at a council that had 2 budgets from an overall annual income. One was used for things like salaries and short term projects throughout the year and the other for longer term developments.

What matters is not budgets and pots but what funds the Club has, is able to generate, or is able to borrow in order to fund what it needs to. This requirement includes the new training complex and the land and buildings purchases around the ground for the NPD which have been funded in the main by loans, on which interest is having to be paid and the capital repaid over time, but also organically generated through profits. Wages, salaries, transfer fees and overheads, interest and capital expenditure generally all have to be funded either through profits, loans or new shares.
Anyone who has looked at the Accounts of the Club over the last few years will know that we are not running with massive surpluses, and that we have to continue with the prudent financial stewardship of the last decade to keep the Club afloat. Without a massive injection of funds we will not be able to play around with separate pots and budgets to fund marquee signings for many years, until the NPD is built and, more importantly, paid for. The increased revenue from the new stadium will be eaten up by interest and capital repayments unless the funds are generated from new share issues.
A takeover would not be enough because the money from sale of the shares would go into the current shareholders pockets, and would of itself have no effect on the Club's resources. And no one should kid themselves that new shares will be quietly issued with no one knowing. The current shareholders, which consist of more than ENIC (including me!) retain their normal AIM's shareholders rights for 10 years after the de-listing last January.

 

[Jospur]

A number of posters have talked about Falcao, Hulk etc but never any ITK ro back it up - indeed JJSet has openly said the wages are too high.

ITK has dried up as until Modric and Ade (or another good striker) are done, probably noit a lot more else will get progressed (which would possiblyu generate ITK)

I just hope this business gets done soon. The coach will be implementing a new playing style and that may take time to establish. A settled squad needs to be in place sooner rather than later. I'm hoping that the watchword will be quality.

Frustrating to see Chelsea pip us to Oscar...

 

[Danners9]

What matters is not budgets and pots but what funds the Club has, is able to generate, or is able to borrow in order to fund what it needs to.....

I agree and take the point of the rest, but this is the bit I want to reply to.

The training ground will have been paid for over time, it will mean the money to play with is lowered for a few years (and probably has been for a while already), but what I was originally replying to was the point of view that maybe it will affect the spending this season.. I don't think that is the case at all. Maybe the CL revenue went towards it, or it was a 'bonus' to pay off the loan early.

Earlier in this thread (I think, or the twitter one) someone says how the Niko, Corluka, Pienaar money almost equals the fees for Vertonghen and Sigurdsson. So, even if we had no money in reserve for transfers, it's still almost balanced.. and with Modric going, that ~£35m is in play for reinforcements. Midfield, forward, maybe a goalie. Smart squad building anyway, upgraded with players that will play rather than those who sit on the bench or in the stands.

 

[Spursidol]

I agree and take the point of the rest, but this is the bit I want to reply to.

The training ground will have been paid for over time, it will mean the money to play with is lowered for a few years (and probably has been for a while already), but what I was originally replying to was the point of view that maybe it will affect the spending this season.. I don't think that is the case at all. Maybe the CL revenue went towards it, or it was a 'bonus' to pay off the loan early.

Earlier in this thread (I think, or the twitter one) someone says how the Niko, Corluka, Pienaar money almost equals the fees for Vertonghen and Sigurdsson. So, even if we had no money in reserve for transfers, it's still almost balanced.. and with Modric going, that ~£35m is in play for reinforcements. Midfield, forward, maybe a goalie. Smart squad building anyway, upgraded with players that will play rather than those who sit on the bench or in the stands.

A lot of the CL money went straight out in players wages (bonuses I hope) causing a leap of about £25m in player wages.

Training ground is being paid for over a period of time, I am sure of that, so will not make a big difference to the transfer budget in any one year (I am guessing <£5m)

Pretty sure we have some money in reserve for transfers from Crouch, Palacios etc plus Modric money but tied with high wages for the strikers think 3 - 4 first team players will be the most in - unless we get big money for the likes of Bentley, Jenas, Gio etc (but think we will struggle to average more than say £5m per player - and it may not be possible to sell them) Hence my caution with expectations of incoming players