The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Shakedown! 13th January 2015

[DaSpurs]

If we recall Pritchard then selling Lennon makes sense. I must say I'm ambivalent about him going. He's done reasonably well when he's played this season, especially against Everton, but Pochettino obviously doesn't want him.

We should be keeping Vlad, though. Had another good game today. Kaboul, Adebayor, Paulinho and Capoue can all go. Not surprising about Holtby, but an odd decision all the same. He would add far more to the team than some who are getting game time at the moment, and it's madness to let Carroll go, especially when after Mason and Bentaleb we have no central midfielders who can pass the ball forwards with any kind of incisiveness.

Hell IMO we need to recall Pritchard and sign a winger reinforcement. We are embarrassingly thin at AM at the moment, and not one of our wingers is entirely consistent.

I don't think we wanted Holtby out though. He's treated like a god there in Hamburg while he'd just be fighting for places with us. Carroll I also agree with you on, but this reinforces to me Trix' ITK for awhile now that Poch still wants a CM replacement. The evidence is overwhelming in our play as well, as when Mason is out our midfield influence through passing plummets like a cannonball in water.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

Today's performance shows that we are lacking severely in squad depth in terms of quality. We don't have players who can charge forward with strength and purpose and really make things happen. We lack leaders and players who defend with authority.Too many of our players are ineffective and tentative in their approach.
I am encouraged by today's ITK but doubt that anything will happen. Our transfer strategy- rather like the team- is lacking in purpose and direction. It seems to be opportunistic and focused on player value rather than what we need to improve. We need to take a hit on a few players to shift them off the wage bill to enable us to move forward. Our zero net spend policy is damaging and short sighted. I hope we see some movement but suspect that the club will drag its feet as ever on making key signings and we will be the weaker for this in the long term.

 

[DaSpurs]

We've got 35 players. We need to whittle off about 10 before we start adding in any new ones.

An overloaded squad of unhappy/demotivated bit-part players who aren't trusted does no one any good at all.

I don't think we need to sell quite that many as we only have 22 senior players at the moment, and one of those includes Friedel. I'd say another 3-4 to bring in the 2 we crucially need IMO.

 

[Ledleys Knee]

ali z:
Could be a high number - Lennon is going, so is Kaboul or Ade if anybody takes them. Interest in Capoue, Pauli and Ciriches. Carrol and Holtby are goners. It could be a mad week, max of 2 in, could be loans.

Lets break this down. He names 8 players.

Defence
Kaboul
Chirches
= Definitely leaves us short of a CB. We'd need to move on Moreno

Midfield
Capoue
Paulinho
Holtby
Carroll
= Still leaves us 4 CMs, so no problem

Forwards
Lennon
Ade
= Leaves us short at LWF, and possible a 3rd option at CF. We could do with a versatile forward like Ings or Rodriguez

 

[DaSpurs]

Today's performance shows that we are lacking severely in squad depth in terms of quality. We don't have players who can charge forward with strength and purpose and really make things happen. We lack leaders and players who defend with authority.Too many of our players are ineffective and tentative in their approach.
I am encouraged by today's ITK but doubt that anything will happen. Our transfer strategy- rather like the team- is lacking in purpose and direction. It seems to be opportunistic and focused on player value rather than what we need to improve. We need to take a hit on a few players to shift them off the wage bill to enable us to move forward. Our zero net spend policy is damaging and short sighted. I hope we see some movement but suspect that the club will drag its feet as ever on making key signings and we will be the weaker for this in the long term.

I agree with you for the most part (especially in your assessment of our current squad, never seen such fear and tentativeness from a group of players at this level), but the arrival of Mitchell to me suggests a redirection of policy, namely being smarter with incomings while still living within our means. While we'll undoubtedly continue to look towards value buys, we just need to be far more clever with them and we absolutely can do this IMO. It really isn't that hard to see where this squad is lacking.

 

[shelfboy68]

Thing is if we don't sign anyone I'd rather blood them now than carry on with players we don't want and aren't part of the bigger picture.

We do need to balance youth out with experience though

Of course balance is key but we should be trying to get one or two now this season is still alive for us, lets not let it go down the gurggler.

 

[nightgoat]

Hell IMO we need to recall Pritchard and sign a winger reinforcement. We are embarrassingly thin at AM at the moment, and not one of our wingers is entirely consistent.

I don't think we wanted Holtby out though. He's treated like a god there in Hamburg while he'd just be fighting for places with us. Carroll I also agree with you on, but this reinforces to me Trix' ITK for awhile now that Poch still wants a CM replacement. The evidence is overwhelming for our play as well, as when Mason is out our midfield influence through passing plummets like a cannonball in water.

It would be nice to both recall Pritchard and sign someone else in that position, but considering Lennon doesn't even make the bench now selling him won't actually be reducing the effective squad. At the moment Pochettino is only using three players for the wide positions, Pritchard would make four.

Sell Paulinho and bring in another wide forward/winger type and we would then have Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend, Lamela, Pritchard, plus New Player for the front three positions. What's annoying about letting Holtby go is that he could be used in both central midfield and as one of the three attackers. Pochettino obviously just doesn't rate him.

 

[Ledleys Knee]

I would just like to remind everyone that it's been nearly 18 months since we last purchased an attacking player, yet the evidence suggests that we're not making too many moves to sign an attacker. All I can describe it as is fucking bullshit.

18 months since we spent £74m in one window refreshing our entire front line (Lamela, Soldado, Chadli and Eriksen)

 

[mill]

Lets break this down. He names 8 players.

Defence
Kaboul
Chirches
= Definitely leaves us short of a CB. We'd need to move on Moreno

Midfield
Capoue
Paulinho
Holtby
Carroll
= Still leaves us 4 CMs, so no problem

Forwards
Lennon
Ade
= Leaves us short at LWF, and possible a 3rd option at CF. We could do with a versatile forward like Ings or Rodriguez

Neither ade or Soldado will go imo and if we can't get 1st team quality lw Pritchard or oduwa would do for me. If, massive if ade goes a striker that can play wide, Rodriguez or similar and recalling Pritchard would be great

 

[mill]

Of course balance is key but we should be trying to get one or two now this season is still alive for us, lets not let it go down the gurggler.

I hope so to but the right quality may not be available to us, I wouldn't mind Konoplyanka though if we can shift at least 1

 

[DaSpurs]

It would be nice to both recall Pritchard and sign someone else in that position, but considering Lennon doesn't even make the bench now selling him won't actually be reducing the effective squad. At the moment Pochettino is only using three players for the wide positions, Pritchard would make four.

Sell Paulinho and bring in another wide forward/winger type and we would then have Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend, Lamela, Pritchard, plus New Player for the front three positions. What's annoying about letting Holtby go is that he could be used in both central midfield and as one of the three attackers. Pochettino obviously just doesn't rate him.

Again, I don't think it's that Poch didn't rate him. Hamburg came after him very, very aggressively. He even had over 200 people show up to his first training session just to get his autographs. I think Poch simply told him that he'd be fighting for places, while at Hamburg he's a crucial player for them. We've even had it from ITK that Poch would have included him in his plans had he stayed. Big middle ground between Poch not rating the player at all and rating him strongly enough to block a move, and I believe what happened was somewhere in that middle area.

You're right, a Pritch addition would simply add to the numbers considering Lennon's exclusion. That doesn't mean it's enough though. Our AM options have been extremely thin as is since both Eriksen and Chadli don't have any real backups. Lennon when he has played on the left has been beyond useless. Eriksen's "backup" has been Paulinho played out of position, and it's not worked well at all (one game against a defeated Burnley in a cup replay is not sufficient ground to say he works there). As you can see in the last few weeks, we've put immense strain on our attacking mid options regardless of injury or family emergencies. We have no game-winners off the bench, and hardly any game-changers. It's just not enough in terms of both quantity and quality, and we need reinforcements.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

18 months since we spent £74m in one window refreshing our entire front line (Lamela, Soldado, Chadli and Eriksen)

Entire front line? We should have 9 or 10 players for the front four. We currently have 8, and only 5 of those actually are useful at the moment (Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend and Kane).

 

[nightgoat]

Again, I don't think it's that Poch didn't rate him. Hamburg came after him very, very aggressively. He even had over 200 people show up to his first training session just to get his autographs. I think Poch simply told him that he'd be fighting for places, while at Hamburg he's a crucial player for them. We've even had it from ITK that Poch would have included him in his plans had he stayed. Big middle ground between Poch not rating the player at all and rating him strongly enough to block a move, and I believe what happened was somewhere in that middle area.

Who was that? I'm not sure why he didn't include him in his plans from the start. He had a good pre-season and his attributes and style of play suit Pochettino's way of playing, and he'll run all day long.

 

[mill]

Who was that? I'm not sure why he didn't include him in his plans from the start. He had a good pre-season and his attributes and style of play suit Pochettino's way of playing, and he'll run all day long.

I think with Holtby game time was the issue

 

[DaSpurs]

Who was that? I'm not sure why he didn't include him in his plans from the start. He had a good pre-season and his attributes and style of play suit Pochettino's way of playing, and he'll run all day long.

Honestly don't remember, but I'm sure it's in the RO.

I agree that I think he would have done well. The fact he could have given cover at both AM and CM would have been extremely useful, considering we're weak in both positions at the moment. And I do think Poch planned to use him quite a bit, but Hamburg was just a very good option.

People often forget Hamburg is actually a very big club there in Germany. Its size is fourth to only Bayern, Dortmund, and Schalke - and even that is debatable. They have a large stadium (and nice) and extremely passionate fans. To be offered to go there and essentially be promised a marquee role right off the bat to be somewhat of a savior and essential in a proposed return to glory is a very attractive offer. This has to be taken into consideration before rushing to the assumption that he's gone just because Poch didn't rate him.

 

[lol]

meh. if we need a speedy wide right player who pumps in crosses plus being discipline enough to track back i'll just play yedlin

 

[mill]

meh. if we need a speedy wide right player who pumps in crosses plus being discipline enough to track back i'll just play yedlin

Poch?

 

[DaSpurs]

meh. if we need a speedy wide right player who pumps in crosses plus being discipline enough to track back i'll just play yedlin

We need more than just pace to supply crosses. We need someone who can use that pace combined with aggressive dribbling to pull defenders, beat them, and open gaps for the rest of the side to work through.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

We need more than just pace to supply crosses. We need someone who can use that pace combined with aggressive dribbling to pull defenders, beat them, and open gaps for the rest of the side to work through.

And can score...

 

[Dirty Ewok]

Blew us out in the summer, can't see any reason he'd change his mind at this point

I don't think we did though.

We were linked to him in the papers and some of the ITK said there was an interest in him, but around the time PSV offered a new contract to Depay (and it was accepted)....so it seems just as likely that we made a informal inquiry but mainly we were being used as leverage in a negotiation (just like Greizmann used us to get the move to Atleti) for a new contract.