The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

[nayimfrom50]

Good window. Take the emotion out of it- good window.
We've strengthened in areas we were poor. We've sold players that were surplus to requirements. We've given the manager a more streamlined, versatile squad to coach. He's said to be happy with what he has and, if his two targets in MS and Jrod weren't get-able he was content. So we should be.
Given we typically play 1 upfront we can get to Jan with the 3 cforwards we have, no issue. We're good.

Pochs main challenge is now a managerial one. That changing room has lost a lot of personality this morning. I can't see any natural leaders stepping up. He's got to find a nucleus of a new group of leaders and give them their head. By all accounts Benji is that type but apart from him I'm struggling with who can grip the team if we've got 2 down in 30
Mins, who gives Bentaleb a slap and an encourage if he's having a bad one, who gets the huddle together and gives them the speech. We've lost that personality a bit and Poch can be the best coach in the world but we need leadership on the pitch as well

 

[strader]

the biggest issue is the fans expectation varies slightly from the clubs realistic target and goals.

We all wanted a last minute gift, as we got nothing we are up in arms.

I actually believe clubs doing their last minute shopping haven't planned accordingly and fir the last few windows we have stopped all that last minute craziness which has shown we are going down the right path.

We have cried for patience from the board but forgotten to give our own in return. Poch has been given a 5 year contract so we need patience as fans.

We are allowed to be upset by losing your favourite player, but don't take your anger and channel it in the wrong direction. Moan, sob, cry, wank, do it all and chin up as success is achieved thru various paths and not just through the obvious buying and buying.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

So did we eventually do the right thing and fork out the money for Schneiderlin last night?

 

[Drexl]

Good window. Take the emotion out of it- good window.
We've strengthened in areas we were poor. We've sold players that were surplus to requirements. We've given the manager a more streamlined, versatile squad to coach. He's said to be happy with what he has and, if his two targets in MS and Jrod weren't get-able he was content. So we should be.
Given we typically play 1 upfront we can get to Jan with the 3 cforwards we have, no issue. We're good.

Pochs main challenge is now a managerial one. That changing room has lost a lot of personality this morning. I can't see any natural leaders stepping up. He's got to find a nucleus of a new group of leaders and give them their head. By all accounts Benji is that type but apart from him I'm struggling with who can grip the team if we've got 2 down in 30
Mins, who gives Bentaleb a slap and an encourage if he's having a bad one, who gets the huddle together and gives them the speech. We've lost that personality a bit and Poch can be the best coach in the world but we need leadership on the pitch as well

How have we strengthened though?

Vorm - 3rd choice keeper atm even behind 50 year old Friedel
Davies - Can't get in ahead of the much maligned Danny Rose
Fazio - Few had heard of him before this window
The yank kid - Not going to play for us for a year
Dier - Looks a great prospect but prospect is all he is atm
Stromboli - Again who had heard of him till a week ago?

I fail to see where we have truly strengthened, perhaps someone could enlighten me

 

[mark87]

Well another transfer window has been and gone and another obscene amount of money has been spent by PL clubs.

How do I think we fared in the TW? I think we strengthened some key areas and trimmed down in other areas, but I would have been more happy if we kept Sandro, I know injuries have taken their toll on him but I still feel he had a part to play.

But cannot dwell on those who have left, now is all about the future and the rest of the 14/15 season. Coys.

Oh, did the site get a decent amount of money in donations yesterday?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

So did we eventually do the right thing and fork out the money for Schneiderlin last night?

No. It seems Daniel's therapy is half working. He's no longer "Last minute Levy" when it comes to signings. Departures is another matter. He couldn't let go completely.

It's progress. Of sorts.

 

[carpediem1906]

so my take is this...

modric was an up and coming gem who made his mark in the champions league and national team before we signed him, and his first season was alright but in his next two, he became world class.
>> for modric - read capoue. (albeit slightly different kind of position) i rem seeing him fronting many nike ads, he was the next big thing in the french league / national team and he was playing oh so well in the first 5-6 games last season. this is his 2nd season in the league, and we have poch who seems to trust him.

bale had talent, harry played him at left wing to exploit his pace and avb gave him a free role to exploit his improved strength and shooting.
>> for bale, there is no replacing. but... in lamela, we have a young player who is now showing good strength and has shown he has a final pass in him. doesnt seem to ghost past players at the moment but seems to rely more on a give and go, and with the "go" being passed into stride, taking on the ball at pace into stride and creating the space for a shooting or assist opportunity. also just beginning his second season.

van der vaart is arguably most loved because besides signing totally out of the blue, he is class, has (had) a gorgeous wife, active in social media but more importantly showed plenty of fight and skill on match days, especially against the scum. this boy wants to win.
>> if ade replaces berbs, then arguably soldier AND paulinho should, in their 2nd season, replace some of what we have lost on the pitch from vdv... soldier with his quality and technique, paulinho for his goals.

well, at least that's the plan... and with the latest summer transfer window, we seemingly worked on improving squad quality and reducing numbers.
over 3 summers, we have
1 - Lloris (whom we managed to keep)
2 - Verts (whom we managed to keep)
3 - Chiriches and Fazio and Dier and Davies for defence
4 - Capoue and Bentaleb and Stambouli for centre mid (and dembele is still around)
5 - Chadli, Kane, Paulinho(heh) as good quality players who are in and around the first xi
6 - Eriksen, Lamela, Soldier(yes i rate bobby) as tier 1 pedigree players (those that if they play to their potential, real or barca would come calling)

and from players who stayed, we have
1 - walker and ade
who are probably players you would name if you can have a EPL all star squad of 25

so all looks good on paper

PLUS our biggest signing of the summer HAS GOT TO BE one Mauricio Pochettino. And a cohesive playing style and philosophy that is attractive attacking football that is our DNA... also charismatic and a boon to squad harmony and morale... and is happy with the squad... AND is a good coach who is proven to improve players in the BPL.

and then we have our infrastructure (training facilities, youth development AND stadium plans) and our prudent finances

So @Stoof again, yes, if we look at the overall picture, things are actually quite promising...

So why again, do we whine and moan and bitch? (this is assuming that those that did, already had a calm composed positive state of mind about where the club is at... tho i might be optimistic)

I will hopefully answer this in my next post.

I think some of us that are crying out loud for a signing like Jay Rod or Welbeck or MS yesterday boils down to this...
**and this is where i both agree and disagree with @Stoof point about well managed club.

in my opinion, what we are lacking now is either superior quality or leadership and fight.

linking to my first 2 posts - modric bale team had parker, king, sandro, vdv (even crouchie daws and walker).
that was a time when our boys would stand up to clubs like united (nobody surrounded the ref when mendes scored) chelsea, city or individuals like yaya, rio, vidic, kompany etc. they do not just play well, but the boys will make sure that they do not get bullied.

we were badly bullied last season by superior first xi (city, liverpool, chelsea) which is fair enough.
but we were beaten by west ham, newcastle, norwich, hull and couldnt beat west brom home and away.
the english game is always faster and much much more physical than the continental leagues. the players dig in. you need to have balls and not just skill to emerge from a scrap and "out-bully" and "out-scare" your opponents.
look at these results from this season - stoke beating city away 1-0. leicester drawing everton and arsnal. teams are not just gonna rollover and lose just cos we are Tottenham Hotspur.

Currently, only City and Chelsea have that. Arguably, Liverpool. Because of Gerrard and them being runners up and their pace at attack striking fear into opponents.

** this to me was why we could not muster a fight back in the second half imo, capoue was almost spent, eriksen was definitely spent, and also why rose and dier couldnt support our attacks more frequently and fearlessly.... that said, i also put it down to fitness not improving that much yet (we will see in and around xmas the benefits) and therefore players tiring out**

if we look at Southampton last season... they lost to norwich, couldnt beat sunderland, villa and stoke.

so why i both agree and disagree with stoof... if we agree that champions league is the primary objective (whether through league or europa)... although improved fitness and speed will bring us some results... and we are well placed... we also have to be mindful that we are lacking in leadership and character. we could have lost to west ham on the opening day for example. even a draw should not be good enough.

so back to transfer window frustrations... boils to not signing anybody (in our opinion of course) who is either (i) of a superior quality or (ii) of superior character and leadership.... and hopefully (iii) has premiership experience and (iv) fits with poch playing philosophy

hence why MS, Welbeck and Tevez were the most commonly desired players. All 3 has at least 3 out of 4 desired traits.

so in summary, in my own opinion of course, better football and players (becos of poch) will bring us near 4th. but just that one (or two) will almost certainly see us competing week in week out. therefore, the almost confidence and certainty of being able to displace one of arsenal liverpool (while fending off everton, man u, scbc) with one (or two) of the above 3 would be a worthy investment.

we do have enough quality and players that can be used to offset this investment if we fail.

lastly, if from now to christmas, we do well enough to be near 3rd or 4th or can push for quarter finals of europa... i do sincerely hope to see that levy or poch see that one (or two) worthy investment can really bring us across the finishing line.

#COYS

the end.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

How have we strengthened though?

Vorm - 3rd choice keeper atm even behind 50 year old Friedel
Davies - Can't get in ahead of the much maligned Danny Rose
Fazio - Few had heard of him before this window
The yank kid - Not going to play for us for a year
Dier - Looks a great prospect but prospect is all he is atm
Stromboli - Again who had heard of him till a week ago?

I fail to see where we have truly strengthened, perhaps someone could enlighten me

I don't think any are 'bad' buys (bar maybe Yedlin-still confused by this one), and there is a lot of potential there with Dier and hopefully Stambouli. But I'm not sure if we have really upgraded our starting 11 in terms of personnel. Fazio perhaps, but there is certainly no prior premiership experience that we can base that opinion on.

 

[shelfboy68]

Yes, I did..Your point is ?

We were against a Liverpool side who are efficient & lethal and capitalize on any mistake. We are a side trying to play in a certain way, which we haven't done before. So, it takes time. There were moments in game, where if things gone our way, result could have been different or bit more respectable.

Problem being we didnt play in that certain way did WeNo pressing it was a meek scared performance from a team that now doesnt beat but trash us not good is it.

 

[Jamturk]

I cry out for a couple of leaders, experienced pros to guide the young talent we have got. The balance is all wrong therefore they will struggle to achieve their potential.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I'm not too disappointed in this window's activity.
We've bought in a new coaching/management setup, which already shows better cohesiveness in the squad and a clearer style of play.
Look at the players we've lost. Dawson, top bloke and unquestionable commitment, but arguably most peoples choice as the weak link at the back, been replaced by a younger player with the same physical strength, leader, and supposedly better composure.
Sandro, hardly played last year, and didn't seem at the level he previously was, replaced with a younger prospect who seemingly ticks the boxes of what Pochettino wants from his CM.
Holtby, was out on loan anyhow, so we're in the same situation.
Beyond that, trimmed out a few fringe players who weren't really in the managers plans, Fryers, Falque, Livermore, Obika etc.
On top of that, added a real prospect in Dier, a quality LB in Davies to ensure we don't end up with Naughton or Vertonghen playing there, plus a better backup keeper.
We've bought what was needed, not just added randomly. The ITK from trix is the most promising point. Levy, Baldini and Pichettino are all on the same page. Poch is happy with the squad, has ideas on upgrades he'd like, but has clear values he feels the replacements should be worth. Rumoured he feels Levy he tried, but happy to go with what he has, and make intelligent acquisitions when they arise, rather rgan but for the sake of it.
Looking forward to this season massively.

 

[shelfboy68]

I reckon it was a solid window, not spectacular but hopefully one that everybody from management to boardroom were reasonably agreed on. So Fazio in because Mm was too complicated, Stromboli in because MS was overpriced. These seem like the only 2 that were constant throughout the window.

JR will come to us in January, that is something I can definitely see, don't think there was ever much point him coming now.

So what have we lost, Holtby (out on loan last year) Sandro (didn't play last year, much) Siggurdson (again didn't play much).

We are left with mostly all of last years players with a few additions that are solid, not Johnny big bollocks. Building a team takes time, we are at the phase Rogers was when he was first at Liverpool but we have a more talented squad.

For those talking about the Liverpool game, so what, it's one game, yes we weren't good enough but what do you expect from a team still understanding what Poch wants them to do. Philosophies take time and we have to have patience as fans.

We have 6 points from 3 games, above the scum, above United so what's there to be upset or annoyed about. This team will get better I have no doubt so lets roll on to January and see where we are.

We cant expect much this year i dont think We have enough goals in us Our front line is average i would expect to finish 7/8th this season and see what happens next.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Felt a bit deflated yesterday in all honesty (think that was more to do with Sandro leaving though) HOWEVER, in light of TRIX's post the main thing for me is as long as Poch is happy with the signings then that'll do for me and is the most important thing at the end of the day.

He had better be given the time to implement his ideas with this squad though but we all know what the board are like, a bit trigger happy at the best of times.

COYS!

 

[paulcumpstone]

Wow some mental posts in here lol. Someone suggesting capoue can be our modric.i mean seriously. For all the positivity, facts are our board/chairman decided it wasn't worth the risk spending to chase a champions league spot as we could still come up short so in my eyes they have settled for 6th. Anybody expecting a miracle from poch is sadly deluding themselves.hopefully he can get us playing like a team with good shape but we still lack any real quality to worry the big teams and yet again the signings we did make are going to need time to get up to the speed of the prem.
maybe its good that we dont have expectations as high as last season.

 

[Amo]

And to top it off: No football for two weeks..


No, internationals don't count.

 

[thinktank]

I'm quite pleased that Chiriches and Mason are still at the club as I think both have the potential to be important players for us.

Still havng both Mason and ceballos here is a big big plus for me. Hope poch's got a strong eye on them.

 

[nayimfrom50]

How have we strengthened though?

Vorm - 3rd choice keeper atm even behind 50 year old Friedel
Davies - Can't get in ahead of the much maligned Danny Rose
Fazio - Few had heard of him before this window
The yank kid - Not going to play for us for a year
Dier - Looks a great prospect but prospect is all he is atm
Stromboli - Again who had heard of him till a week ago?

I fail to see where we have truly strengthened, perhaps someone could enlighten me

Vorm - not yet fit apparently but when he is clearly a perfect second choice to Lloris who will play Europa games I'd imagine.
Davies - a bloody good left back who is only out of the team because the 'much maligned' rose has actually played well this season.
Fazio - who cares if you haven't heard of him? Dawson, Kaboul, chriches aren't up to it- we needed a new centre half. We want for Musacchio, couldn't get him so got Fazio. Where's the problem?
Yedlin - about the quickest player in world football who might turn out to be a game changer next year. If not, what have we lost?
Dier - you're right, a good prospect. Shame
Stromboli - evidently better on the ball which is why he's an upgrade.

I'm not trying to be positive- it doesn't come naturally - but I really don't think it's bad business. Who do people think we realistically should've signed? Falcao?

We are in decent shape.

 

[mk_spur]

Without going overboard and having the levyites shout me down but with ade(probably going to ANC in jan) Kane and a shot to pieces soldado does anyone in there right mind think this is a team going to break the top 4 or a team going to end up somewhere between 6th and 8th. I'm disappointed that the lwf and cf positions were not probably addressed and think baldini is a salary worth trimming before sandro's. I'm not surprised in all honesty there is a layer of negativity on here today as I feel a tad let down as well but it isn't all doom and gloom just yet let's see if he manager has the ability to get the absolute maximum from the players at his disposal. Coys!!!

 

[Breezer]

I cry out for a couple of leaders, experienced pros to guide the young talent we have got. The balance is all wrong therefore they will struggle to achieve their potential.

Leaders?

How about Fazio and Stambouli? Pretty sure both were captains at previous clubs.

 

[Dundalk_Spur]

@Stoof you are wasting your time mate, most people in this thread will not be happy unless we win the transfer window trophy. Can't wait until the football starts again