The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE LAST DAY! 1st September 2014

[rawhide]

You of course don't disagree with me though...we don't look good enough as it stands. Bentaleb in particular is lightweight and Dembele and Paulinho should be ashamed that he is getting in the team ahead of them.

I'm not even prepared to judge last years Transfer Window until I see how/if the players brought in perform and develop.

I'm certainly not going to judge this window and season as a success or failure when there are still 35 league games to play.

I'm in it for the long term, not the short term.

 

[shelfboy68]

Knowing the country and culture has nothing to do with leading on the pitch. You either have it or you don't.

However I do agree our team lacks leaders. I hate comparing to Chelski. But when I look at their defence. All leaders and all know the little tricks to manipulate the referee. The ball goes off, and a throw is awarded to the opposing team yet the whole Chelsea team are screaming at the Ref to say its their throw. Every free kick given against them is disputed. It's not nice to see but these players are winners and eventually the ref awards them something he shouldn't. Our lot are so soft it's beyond a joke. When one of our players gets poleaxed from behind, half our team walks off for refreshments.

The way our midfield lost every challenge against Liverpool was embarrassing! We made Henderson and Allen look like Roy Keane and Scholes. Obviously judging players from Youtube vids is silly but Fazio and Stambouli both look like they're prepared to get stuck in. Fingers crossed given more time our team will settle and improve.

Spot on We have No winning mentality right through the club but poch can only do so much with what he has the saying silk purse and sows ear come to mind.

 

[rawhide]

Yeah they have nothing to complain about. Our top purchase Ben Davies (who)? can't even get in the first team, shows just how good our squad is.

Or alternatively...

Our squad is so strong that £10m left back is being kept on the bench...

If, and it's a big if, Poch is happy with the squad, it's totally irrelevant what you or I think, or who we wanted to sign, or for how much.

We can't change what has happened, we can just get behind every player here and support them.

 

[yido_number1]

How have we strengthened though?

Vorm - 3rd choice keeper atm even behind 50 year old Friedel
Davies - Can't get in ahead of the much maligned Danny Rose
Fazio - Few had heard of him before this window
The yank kid - Not going to play for us for a year
Dier - Looks a great prospect but prospect is all he is atm
Stromboli - Again who had heard of him till a week ago?

I fail to see where we have truly strengthened, perhaps someone could enlighten me

Now things have calmed down, I just want to take the opportunity to say you should of been banned from the forum yesterday for your total disregard of discussing any itk and using the forum to discuss your distaste for the club ownership.

Basing a window on whether you have heard of a player before or whether they have broken straight into the first team or whether they are a prospect is ridiculous. Look at the following signings from previous windows and tell me if they were a success:

Hugo Lloris: Brought into the club late in the window and still at this point hadn't become undisputed number 1 very similar to Ben Davies.
Kyle Walker: Signed a number of years ago and unheard of by pretty much everyone on here yet proved a good asset.(Yedlin)
Gareth Bale: Widely considered a good prospect at the time, but he was only a prospect then.(Dier)
Sandro and Capoue: Never heard of either of these players before they were signed. One became an absolute fan favourite the other is showing some real class in the early part of the season after an injury plagued first year. (Fazio and Strambouli)

I could go on with similar names of players and situations that have come good, however, as stated I have little time for your childish toys out of the pram posts and look forward to you going back to school and dropping your post count.

I should of added Cuduccini in there to account for Vorm. When signed only as a back up but I remember him being a crucial player whilst the first choice was injured. A very important signing for times when Lloris might need a break or have injuries which are one run out of the box to intercept away from happening.

 

[sloth]

So you actually think Levy puts the money where the mouth is? You're sorely mistaken, mate. Lowest net spend in the PL over the last 5 yrars with -£34m. A met spend this year lower than 18 other clubs with -£6.5 Only Southampton had lower.

Anyway, can we just close this thread and close up the transfer section until January? Windows shut. No need for it anymore.

Where do you think that money's going mate?

 

[gerishep]

I note Trix said last night that we were not just buying players to move on again, well our new bunch of unknowns seem exactly ready made for that. And if Poch is happy with the squad then he shouldn't have trouble passing sherwoods point total. Have we now let in 13 goals in the last three matches against pool, 3 goals under poch.

 

[Cavehillspur]

I note Trix said last night that we were not just buying players to move on again, well our new bunch of unknowns seem exactly ready made for that. And if Poch is happy with the squad then he shouldn't have trouble passing sherwoods point total. Have we now let in 13 goals in the last three matches against pool, 3 goals under poch.

12

 

[sloth]

Maybe DL major goal is not top 4 anymore, maybe he has looked at the sides above us and thought that even if he throws serious cash around the chances of us finishing in the top 4 are slim...maybe DL's/JL target now is to make us money via the new stadium ,maybe they think thats more likely than CL qualifiction and hence their reluctance to spend more than we sell.

Their objective is not to skim the profits, it's to sell the club for a fucking fortune. To do that the stadium helps in as much as it helps us be more successful, that's all.

 

[andyp8080]

Good window. Take the emotion out of it- good window.
We've strengthened in areas we were poor. We've sold players that were surplus to requirements. We've given the manager a more streamlined, versatile squad to coach. He's said to be happy with what he has and, if his two targets in MS and Jrod weren't get-able he was content. So we should be.
Given we typically play 1 upfront we can get to Jan with the 3 cforwards we have, no issue. We're good.

Pochs main challenge is now a managerial one. That changing room has lost a lot of personality this morning. I can't see any natural leaders stepping up. He's got to find a nucleus of a new group of leaders and give them their head. By all accounts Benji is that type but apart from him I'm struggling with who can grip the team if we've got 2 down in 30
Mins, who gives Bentaleb a slap and an encourage if he's having a bad one, who gets the huddle together and gives them the speech. We've lost that personality a bit and Poch can be the best coach in the world but we need leadership on the pitch as well

Have we though? Defensively we have it seems, but lets be honest none of us know a great deal about Fazio. Fingers crossed it will work.

But you only have to look at our 'goals scored' column from last season to see another weak area of ours. And other than having Lamela now fit I really don't feel we are stronger. In fact without the few goals that Siggy would get us we feel weaker.

We are reliant on Soldado finding his form and hoping that Ade stays interested. Its a worry for me

 

[Hoopspur]

Frankly I'm not expecting much today, so anything that happens will be a bonus (as long as I like the news that is!!)

Well Hoops, looks like you were right earlier on yesterday morning. Am I gnashing my teeth, then no I'm not. Really looking forward to seeing how Poch can settle in and coach, cajole and motivate the players.

As an aside my father in law has been to nearly every match since the 50's - me only the late 70's. He doesn't own a computer and wasn't aware of any of these discussions and most of the players mentioned. I probably put him as right - think I might throw mine away.

Anyway, as I pointed out to an esteemed poster, I was here all day yesterday and frankly some should be ashamed of themselves for their contributions and hopefully the cold light of day has brought a more balanced and sensible view. God there was also a lot of unnecessary spam.

 

[Gedson100]

It's just laughable how some people can't see past the idea of spending a ton of money.

We've often wondered why we haven't signed players like Benteke and suchlike out of other leagues before they became well known and expensive, or conversely why we've blocked the route to the first team for promising youngsters by buying expensive alternatives.

This summer we've bought Dier, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio all for reasonable money and each has the potential to grow into solid and maybe excellent performers for us. Similarly, we've not blocked the way for very promising youngsters like Bentaleb or Kane each of whom shows immense promise.

Add in that our dispersals have been very solid; players not wanted for good reasons: Sandro (injury issues & short contract), Holtby (face has never fitted), Dawson (no longer good enough), Fryers (hasn't made the grade), Livermore (great money for academy player), Sigurdsson (rarely performed for us).

So:

• we've signed promising players in key positions
• we've only sold unneeded players & players on the down curve
• our young players are part of our squad
• we've retained all 7 of our 2013 signings
• Poch will get the chance to work with all our squad; everyone's got til January to shape up/fit in
• we've reduced the squad size
• the squad is young & can grow together
• key players are retained on long contracts

It's all very logical and far too unsexy for the 'blow £60m brigade' and sure, 4th place is going to be a big ask but with a coach on a long contract too, the basis for growth & future strength is solid.

 

[dwayne-mooney]

Be prepared to be disappointed..

Oh shut up.

Can I speak now?

Edited

 

[Locotoro]

I really hope someone makes the effort to call out all those chumps that acted like little girls and cried when Poch gets the squad playing great football and winning comfortably.

I would do it myself but im lazy

 

[SpursDave88]

Ben Davies or Ignacio Moreno? Similar fees I believe.

 

[fatpiranha]

For those of you complaining that we didn't pay £27M for Schneiderlin here's a list of midfielders who were sold this summer for comparison:

Cesc Fabregas £30M
Antoine Griezmann £24M
Tony Kroos £22M
Ivan Rakitic £16M
Xabi Alonso £8M
Shinji Kagawa £6M
Mathieu Valbuena £5M
Milan Badelj £4M

I'd say those prices represented good value for the players involved. By comparison i'd say Schneiderlin is worth about £18M (and that is taking in to account the fact that he is proven in the premiership). Paying £27m would be overpaying by a full 50%. Any club that does that better have a sugar daddy because otherwise they are soon going to find themselves in trouble.

 

[iluvsteffenfreund]

I really hope someone makes the effort to call out all those chumps that acted like little girls and cried when Poch gets the squad playing great football and winning comfortably.

I would do it myself but im lazy

And when we are in 6th and haven't taken a point off any of the top 4 come April ? Who does the calling out then ?

 

[ohwhenthespurs]

Have we though? Defensively we have it seems, but lets be honest none of us know a great deal about Fazio. Fingers crossed it will work.

But you only have to look at our 'goals scored' column from last season to see another weak area of ours. And other than having Lamela now fit I really don't feel we are stronger. In fact without the few goals that Siggy would get us we feel weaker.

We are reliant on Soldado finding his form and hoping that Ade stays interested. Its a worry for me

this is exactly my view. You can say we've strenghtened because we've added more players; but I couldn't say it with any confidence - I've never seen Stambouli or Fazio play, and by the looks of it we hardly had to fight off any other major clubs to sign them. Dier is worth a punt as a young English talent with a release clause that meant he was available cheaper than his market value (did someone say Moneyball?). Davies fair enough, solid player in a position where we're short, but not exactly the type of full-back you'd hand-pick to slot into Poch's system. He's young and British, though, and left-back is a tough position to fill so his value will stay high if need be.
All in all it smacks of a continuation of our speculative approach of accruing low-budget young decent players, keeping them for a couple of years and then shuffling the pack again when we decide they're not quite good enough or what the coach wants, usually with a small profit involved.
I hope Stambouli is the answer to our woefully mediocre midfield, but I don't have massive confidence that he's not just the next figure to warm the chair for a while.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I agree some of the reaction towards Levy/ENIC is strong but some of the support is just as blinkered. It's not black and white. I think it's fair to criticise the board for our recent transfer policy whilst still thinking they are right for the club. We pay champagne prices for house wine football. No one could say that we couldn't have improved our team more this window in a sustainable way.

We won't know for months whether this has been a good window or not.

Will our signings end up becoming first team regulars?

Will we still need funding and a massive naming rights deal (no doubt with an awful name) for the new stadium despite consistently funnelling funds away during the endless delays? (How on earth would we have paid for the stadium if it was built by now without all these necessary savings)

Was Poch really content with our attacking options and not getting Schneiderlin?

Will Adebayor/Soldado both get to double figures? or will both struggle or get injured?

Will Lennon or Townsend get a footballing brain if called upon? Will Lamela and Eriksen play 38 PL games each? Will Fazio/Stambouli instantly adapt?

Can Pochettino get goals out of an underperforming attack? Can he stop our team brainfarting in big games?

Will Levy stand by Poch if we are 6th/7th and take a few more hammerings? Hope so but not overly unlikely.

No one knows the answers to all this, so it's time people on both sides get off their high horse and stop talking down to people. General consensus is that we did ok points wise last season despite being poorly coached and we believe Poch is the right man to lead us. Time to just support him and the team and hope for the best.

 

[Topeka]

It's just laughable how some people can't see past the idea of spending a ton of money.

We've often wondered why we haven't signed players like Benteke and suchlike out of other leagues before they became well known and expensive, or conversely why we've blocked the route to the first team for promising youngsters by buying expensive alternatives.

This summer we've bought Dier, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio all for reasonable money and each has the potential to grow into solid and maybe excellent performers for us. Similarly, we've not blocked the way for very promising youngsters like Bentaleb or Kane each of whom shows immense promise.

Add in that our dispersals have been very solid; players not wanted for good reasons: Sandro (injury issues & short contract), Holtby (face has never fitted), Dawson (no longer good enough), Fryers (hasn't made the grade), Livermore (great money for academy player), Sigurdsson (rarely performed for us).

So:

• we've signed promising players in key positions
• we've only sold unneeded players & players on the down curve
• our young players are part of our squad
• we've retained all 7 of our 2013 signings
• Poch will get the chance to work with all our squad; everyone's got til January to shape up/fit in
• we've reduced the squad size
• the squad is young & can grow together
• key players are retained on long contracts

It's all very logical and far too unsexy for the 'blow £60m brigade' and sure, 4th place is going to be a big ask but with a coach on a long contract too, the basis for growth & future strength is solid.

Lennon and Naughton needed to go and they did not. Gutless behavior from guys who are past their use by date!

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Can I speak now?

Mug.

See yesterday, I was so busy that dealing with your constant off-topic bleating kept getting pushed back in the list of things to do. But now i've got time on my hands, you've refreshed my memory. I've decided I don't want you in here any more.