The Harry Effect

[SpurSince57]

It's not just about diet though. It's about conditioning. I remember one of the old arsenal back four (lee Dixon, Tony Adams I think) claiming that Arsene Wenger added about 3 years to their careers by improvong the fitness (and diet etc) regime.

No body said that we were a team of lardy woblers under Jol who spent their training time scoffing steak and kidney pudds and copius amounts of creme brulee. But where ultimate fitness becomes an issue is in the last quarter of games. Fatigue causes the body to tire, and the brain struggles under duress to concentrate. It is why so many goals occur in the final minutes of games. And no coincidence that the teams that have the best coaches are the ones that are doing most of the last minute scoring.

Nobody sensible did, but as soon as the 'Spurs 100kg overweight shock horror!' appeared in the press (which makes some of the moans about Redknapp running his mouth loose in press conferences a bit rich—if Ramos and Alvarez had an issue, fair enough, but why not keep it in-house?) the pie jokes soon followed. Of course quite a few of those were jokes, but quite a few were not.

Yes, that's the way the story goes, and yes, fatigue is obviously a factor, but a lot of those late goals were conceded because of cock-ups by the usual suspects—who you know as well as I do are (or were) as likely to go walkabout in the 10th minute as in the 91st. Conceding late goals wasn't the major problem anyway—the major problem was not scoring enough to make them an irrelevance.

But I'd argue that visible fitness is very hard to quantify—exactly how do you distinguish tired players from those whose heads have dropped for psychological, not physical, reasons? And again, have we looked fitter than other teams this season, or last?

 

[SpurSince57]

Good stuff on this page apart from SS who's got a bee in his bonnet over senior Ramos :razz: a very good manager at the wrong club.

And I'm sure you'll remember my expressing major reservations about him 18 months ago—although as Jol was clearly on his way whatever did I did allow that he was, faux de mieux, probably the best of the names being bandied about. It could have been worse—we could have ended up with that fuckwit Koeman.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Nobody sensible did, but as soon as the 'Spurs 100kg overweight shock horror!' appeared in the press (which makes some of the moans about Redknapp running his mouth loose in press conferences a bit rich—if Ramos and Alvarez had an issue, fair enough, but why not keep it in-house?) the pie jokes soon followed. Of course quite a few of those were jokes, but quite a few were not.

Yes, that's the way the story goes, and yes, fatigue is obviously a factor, but a lot of those late goals were conceded because of cock-ups by the usual suspects—who you know as well as I do are (or were) as likely to go walkabout in the 10th minute as in the 91st. Conceding late goals wasn't the major problem anyway—the major problem was not scoring enough to make them an irrelevance.

But I'd argue that visible fitness is very hard to quantify—exactly how do you distinguish tired players from those whose heads have dropped for psychological, not physical, reasons? And again, have we looked fitter than other teams this season, or last?

Genuine question. The overweight rumours, were they quotes from Ramos ? Because the best I can remember they were nothing but hearsay and press gossip, not actual quotes.

If this is the case it's a bit harsh attributing the stories directly to Ramos when they could and probably did come from any one of a hundred places, Players, coaches, Comolli, cafateria waitress, etc etc.

Also they, if true, and were from Ramos, then they were still no where near as bad as the constant stream of never ending - and often contradicting - sound bites that eminate from the oversize gob of Redknapp.

Whilst Redknapp may have identified weaknesses in the squad and wanted a few new players he never actually gave a post match interview way he came out (or via Poyet) and said "I've been lumbered with a right load of ***'s" which is what Redknapp did having previously praised the team of great footballers who he'd previously cojolled into being world beaters.

I actually though Ramos conducted himself with dignity throughout his short tenure.

 

[SpurSince57]

They were direct quotes from Alvarez. I think it not unfair to suggest that he was acting as HMV.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-514244/Weight-Spurs-slimmers.html

Ramos said pretty much fuck all during his tenure—although one memorable exception was when he completely contradicted Poyet's statement explaining why we went one up front against Pompey. Which was the point which finally confirmed my fast-burgeoning doubts.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Not often, if at all, I find myself agreeing with anything written in the red tops but this caught my eye.

JUAN TO REMEMBER

JUANDE RAMOS pits his wits against Premier League opposition again this week.

Before last night’s game against Betis, Ramos’s Real Madrid had won eight league games on the spin.

Roughly in that time, Tottenham have one league win in nine.

Maybe those players who ridiculed Ramos, blamed him for their under-achievement, then lauded the motivational genius of Harry Redknapp, might just want to take a long, hard look at themselves.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spo...-Premier-League-needs-Special-Ones-touch.html

Can't help but agree with that..... (tin hat at the ready:roll

p.s. Madrid won 6-1 to make it 9 wins in a row....

 

[scat1620]

Not often, if at all, I find myself agreeing with anything written in the red tops but this caught my eye.

JUAN TO REMEMBER

JUANDE RAMOS pits his wits against Premier League opposition again this week.

Before last night’s game against Betis, Ramos’s Real Madrid had won eight league games on the spin.

Roughly in that time, Tottenham have one league win in nine.

Maybe those players who ridiculed Ramos, blamed him for their under-achievement, then lauded the motivational genius of Harry Redknapp, might just want to take a long, hard look at themselves.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spo...-Premier-League-needs-Special-Ones-touch.html

Can't help but agree with that..... (tin hat at the ready:roll

p.s. Madrid won 6-1 to make it 9 wins in a row....

No need for a tin hat, but what are you trying to say/prove? It's pretty well known that you don't like Harry and never will, but doesn't the above kinda infer that Harry and Ramos are both pretty irrelevant to our poor form over the last 18 months? (Not offering my own opinion on where things have gone wrong, just trying to extract the gist of that article.) The argument there is that the players are to blame, so I don't see how that helps your crusade against Harry...? :shrug:

 

[sunnydelight786]

No need for a tin hat, but what are you trying to say/prove? It's pretty well known that you don't like Harry and never will, but doesn't the above kinda infer that Harry and Ramos are both pretty irrelevant to our poor form over the last 18 months? (Not offering my own opinion on where things have gone wrong, just trying to extract the gist of that article.) The argument there is that the players are to blame, so I don't see how that helps your crusade against Harry...? :shrug:

Seem's like my one man crusade is gathering pace according to the poll in the below link....

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=43558

All 44% of us cant be wrong eh......

My point is Ramos is proving his credentials at Madrid once again, something which very few of us seem to believe he had and still has. Given time and the players HE wanted I'm convinced he would have been a success here. As Madrid now go from strength to strength we seem to be crumbling with the same old tired excuses being rolled out. Come the end of the season, and hopefully we have stayed up by the skin of our teeth, LEVY should review our managements position.

If the unthinkable happens (quite possible with our current form) and we lose to Hull on Monday, get knocked out by Donetsk of the UEFA cup on Thursday and lose the CC final next Sunday, what straw are people gonna clutch onto then...?

 

[scat1620]

Seem's like my one man crusade is gathering pace according to the poll in the below link....

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=43558

All 44% of us cant be wrong eh......

Don't think I said you were running a one-man crusade: plenty of people agree with you (although you'll notice that 56% don't), but you're certainly one of, if not the most vociferous anti-Redknapp people on SC.

My point is Ramos is proving his credentials at Madrid once again, something which very few of us seem to believe he had and still has. Given time and the players HE wanted I'm convinced he would have been a success here.

He had 2 windows to build his own team and get his own players - one more than Redknapp has currently had, and both Redknapp and Ramos took over in similar points/form situations to each other. Isn't it fair to give Redknapp the same time and chance before giving him the boot? I'll be the first to say that if Redknapp's Spurs continue to play like Juande Ramos' Spurs from now until the summer and going into 09/10 then I will be far from happy with Harry as well, because the side I watched for all but a handful of matches under Ramos was dreadful. Harry hasn't been doing well over recent games, but I'm willing to give him the same time and chance to build his side that Ramos had: if we're not doing better by that time (i.e. part way into next season at the earliest, assuming we stay up), THEN it would be time to start seriously considering Harry's position.

As Madrid now go from strength to strength we seem to be crumbling with the same old tired excuses being rolled out. Come the end of the season, and hopefully we have stayed up by the skin of our teeth, LEVY should review our managements position.

Ramos' performance at Real Madrid is completely irrelevant to his time at Spurs - he's working with a very talented squad and doing well with them. Either people decide that the Spurs squad he was working with isn't good enough and say he couldn't have done any better than he did (in which case Harry deserves the same courtesy, as he inherited Ramos' squad), or alternatively people can decide that the Spurs squad Ramos had to work with WAS good enough, in which case he failed to get them to perform. You can't have it both ways.

If the unthinkable happens (quite possible with our current form) and we lose to Hull on Monday, get knocked out by Donetsk of the UEFA cup on Thursday and lose the CC final next Sunday, what straw are people gonna clutch onto then...?

If we get relegated then Redknapp should and will go. If we don't then he's done his job and, while we don't have to view it as cause for dancing in the streets given the squad we have, he will have not done any worse than Ramos' time at Spurs.

 

[sunnydelight786]

The difference is HR got everyone he asked for apart from Bellendamy, West Ham refused to sell to us (thank god for that), in the transfer window. Did Ramos......?

I saw a interview from Alvarez somewhere where he said Ramos had asked for, in the summer, Albelda (available for a nominal fee), Etoo (when Barca were trying to get shot of him), Capel, Veloso and Arshavin. How many of them did he get? Ramos just last week mentioned that he told the Spurs board to get L.Diarra. He did not get him either. The fact is that people have been trying to rubbish Ramos with his buys but he did not get the players he wanted. He was trying to address the DM position (Diarra & Veloso) but for whatever reason he did not get who he wanted. Do you really honestly believe he asked for F.Campbell as one of his strikers....?

Ramos had 3 people doing transfers for him (Levy, Comolli and Alexandre), HR has only one (Levy)........

HR has no excuses as he has inherited a fantastic squad and added 5 more players to it to the tune of almost £50m...

 

[arnoldlayne]

Not often, if at all, I find myself agreeing with anything written in the red tops but this caught my eye.

JUAN TO REMEMBER

JUANDE RAMOS pits his wits against Premier League opposition again this week.

Before last night’s game against Betis, Ramos’s Real Madrid had won eight league games on the spin.

Roughly in that time, Tottenham have one league win in nine.

Maybe those players who ridiculed Ramos, blamed him for their under-achievement, then lauded the motivational genius of Harry Redknapp, might just want to take a long, hard look at themselves.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spo...-Premier-League-needs-Special-Ones-touch.html

Can't help but agree with that..... (tin hat at the ready:roll

p.s. Madrid won 6-1 to make it 9 wins in a row....

The journo was on Sunday Supplement and was praising Ramos - he said one difference is the intelligence of the Madrid players vs Spurs.

 

[sunnydelight786]

The journo was on Sunday Supplement and was praising Ramos - he said one difference is the intelligence of the Madrid players vs Spurs.

Step forward Mr Bentley, Woodgate, etc....

For years and years I could never figure why Wenger used to nearly always buy abroad, I can now!

 

[Petyr]

The difference is HR got everyone he asked for apart from Bellendamy, West Ham refused to sell to us (thank god for that), in the transfer window. Did Ramos......?

I saw a interview from Alvarez somewhere where he said Ramos had asked for, in the summer, Albelda (available for a nominal fee), Etoo (when Barca were trying to get shot of him), Capel, Veloso and Arshavin. How many of them did he get? Ramos just last week mentioned that he told the Spurs board to get L.Diarra. He did not get him either. The fact is that people have been trying to rubbish Ramos with his buys but he did not get the players he wanted. He was trying to address the DM position (Diarra & Veloso) but for whatever reason he did not get who he wanted. Do you really honestly believe he asked for F.Campbell as one of his strikers....?

Ramos had 3 people doing transfers for him (Levy, Comolli and Alexandre), HR has only one (Levy)........

HR has no excuses as he has inherited a fantastic squad and added 5 more players to it to the tune of almost £50m...

A nice guy pretending for some reason to be ITK inisted that we never ever were interested in Diarra. Of course, he was wrong. Again.

 

[yanno]

Dan Ashcroft has said on several occasions that we could have bought Lassana Diarra but passed, because Comolli's "psychological profile" suggested he was a big time charlie with a huge ego and would not fit in at Spurs.

It looks like Juande Ramos wasn't too impressed with Damian's "psychological profile", since he's playing regularly at Real Madrid.

Boateng also seems to be a big time charlie, so I remain amazed that we would sign the psychologically suspect Prince but pass on Diarra.

 

[duffman22]

If Ramos hadn't been sacked when he was, we would be absolutely fucked right now. The only option at that point was to get rid and fast.

I actually think he's a good manager, but communication problems and an awful transfer window royally fucked us over and he just had to go. I think though that he's a manager who only succeeds in specific circumstances. For example he's had success with 2 talented teams he has inherited in Sevilla and Real Madrid, in a league he knows very well. The only real example of him building his own team is us, and quite frankly, it was shockingly disfunctional.

 

[Damian99]

The difference is HR got everyone he asked for apart from Bellendamy, West Ham refused to sell to us (thank god for that), in the transfer window. Did Ramos......?

He scored again today. Yes correct Harry appears to have got everyone he wanted(although i doubt that) So give them a fucking chance most of who he has signed have played two full games max.

Fucking Doug Ellis gave managers more of a chance than you do

 

[DC_Boy]

mmm so now we find out JR did want Diarra (allegedly, apparently)

the ITK mystery deepens

he also wanted Capel and Etoo

but how practical were those wishes?

I'm always dubious when managers be they Jol or JR come out and say I wanted x but not y - with x now being as a good thing in retrospect and y the reverse

of course all that jol and JR are saying may well be true and they were both stymied in their impeccable judgement by our chairman, DOF whoever

I dunno - wasn't there - never will know - but hindsight can be a wonderful thing I do know that

both Jol and JR did good things with us

if we can get out of our current mess both of their reigns can be seen as quite good or better

it's hard to judge either fairly ATM because their history is still currently being written and rewritten almost on a weekly basis

 

[arnoldlayne]

Dan Ashcroft has said on several occasions that we could have bought Lassana Diarra but passed, because Comolli's "psychological profile" suggested he was a big time charlie with a huge ego and would not fit in at Spurs.

It looks like Juande Ramos wasn't too impressed with Damian's "psychological profile", since he's playing regularly at Real Madrid.

Boateng also seems to be a big time charlie, so I remain amazed that we would sign the psychologically suspect Prince but pass on Diarra.

Maybe they got the names on the reports the wrong way round :shrug:

 

[yanno]

mmm so now we find out JR did want Diarra (allegedly, apparently)

Hi DC_Boy

Here is the exchange between Dan Ashcroft and I during the January window:


Quote:
Originally Posted by yanno

Dan - whilst you're around, was it you who suggested that Comolli and our scouts had produced a personality profile of Lassana Diarra and determined he was a Big Time Charlie and not worth the risk?

I'm interested, because we must have had a chance of signing him when he went to Pompey, and then before Real Madrid came in for him. Personally, I think Diarra would have been a good signing for us, and I'll be irritated if Comolli vetoed any deal.

Dan Ashcroft replied:

That's true. We got offered him both when he signed for Arsenal and when he signed for Portsmouth. It was a committee decision (not Comolli's personally) based on very detailed reports and profiling.

Just because he managed to go a year at Portsmouth without pressing the self-destruct button doesn't necessarily mean they have been proved wrong. Could have made us a few quid though.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1195173&highlight=diarra#post1195173

 

[DC_Boy]

yanno

good researching -

so now where that does that leave that particular piece of ITK

correct and then it was the 3 amigos blocking JR?

or incorrect?

or some other explanation

I also seem to recall we were told repeatedly last summer that Keane was going nowhere and that he was happy here, while simultaneously Robbie was planning his escape to the land of his childhood dreams

I'm not doing the research to find out exactly who said what and when, it'll be counter productive anyway - but I'm sure those who got into heated debates about it (not being ITK I kept out of it) will remember it well

 

[Petyr]

Hi DC_Boy

Here is the exchange between Dan Ashcroft and I during the January window:


Quote:
Originally Posted by yanno
Dan Ashcroft replied:
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1195173&highlight=diarra#post1195173

Yanno

Personally, I don't believe that DA was a genuine ITK. That's my personal opinion. I may be wrong though. But it's hardly debatable that DA was almost totally wrong about Keane and Berbatov.