The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Blake Griffin]

Quick question: with McGee gone and if Pau's not here this year, who will be our third keeper?

probably alfie whiteman.

 

[newbie]

I disagree completely that KWP and Onomah aren't ready. They are ready. And they'll make mistakes like all our players do, but they will also hopefully develop into very, very good players that could potentially far exceed the value to the team that any players we could buy will.

CCV I have always had reservations about. But I don't think as fifth choice it will be easy to find a quality option who's actually great who will want to be a fifth choice CB, so I'm not really pissing myself about it. I can remember us buying Fazio and Chiriches who didn't exactly impress either.

Due to our financial circumstances and the transitional relocation period I would happily accept a season where we have to take a step sideways or backwards short term to take a couple forwards in the long term. If we sign new players they may well take time to settle in and show their best anyway, just as Son, Lamela, Eriksen, Sissoko, Nkoudou etc have, so why not give KWP and Onomah a similar chance. And I personally don't believe KWP and Onomah would let us down at all.

My god we have signed some terrible players, when we have had so much potential in our academy already.

 

[Chris Flynn]

Regarding CCV, ive seen Stones have games like that in the Premier against worse players and he's the great white hype of English defenders

 

[cliff jones]

Carter-Vickers had played 4 matches of professional football. Can you confirm that you believe that is enough to judge a player's career prospects?

You're not following well. He should be nowhere near the first team. We should get someone in. Entire career, who knows- not you or me.

 

[cliff jones]

I disagree completely that KWP and Onomah aren't ready. They are ready. And they'll make mistakes like all our players do, but they will also hopefully develop into very, very good players that could potentially far exceed the value to the team that any players we could buy will.

CCV I have always had reservations about. But I don't think as fifth choice it will be easy to find a quality option who's actually great who will want to be a fifth choice CB, so I'm not really pissing myself about it. I can remember us buying Fazio and Chiriches who didn't exactly impress either.

Due to our financial circumstances and the transitional relocation period I would happily accept a season where we have to take a step sideways or backwards short term to take a couple forwards in the long term. If we sign new players they may well take time to settle in and show their best anyway, just as Son, Lamela, Eriksen, Sissoko, Nkoudou etc have, so why not give KWP and Onomah a similar chance. And I personally don't believe KWP and Onomah would let us down at all.

Your first paragraph is in reponse to my post about CCV? Who are you disagreeing with?

I'm not sure Josh is good enough, certainly not at am, but as I said I hope he can mature in a deeper role. KWP not seen enough, but hopeful based on what I saw in Korea.

 

[stov]

Loving the ccv is not good enough argument. What is this view actually based on? The first preseason game of the season? Or his very limited appearances for the first team?

How can anyone apart from the spurs coaching staff have seen enough of him to know if he is good enough?

Obviously you can always go out and pay through the nose for a glamorous CB who is willing to sit on the bench.

Even if ccv doesn't make it at spurs continuing to develop him with some first team action will add to sell on value. As it has for mason, Livermore, Caulker etc. Like it or not this is part of our operating model and helps justify our investment in the youth and training facilities.

 

[Anuth]

I don't know what was so wrong with giving CCV a meaningless pre-season friendly match. @cliff jones I don't understand why you hate him so much.

He is the fifth choice. Even Wimmer couldn't be able to get playing time last season.

Do you think Evans or Veltman will come to us knowing that they will be the fifth choice?

We might not even play 3 at the back with Trippier and Davies this year. I think we are more than fine with him being our 5th choice.

 

[Krafty]

cliff jones is entitled to his opinion, and if CCV was to play half a dozen league games I could see him being on a steep learning curve against mid table upwards level strikers.

However, as 5th choice he is more than fine - We sometimes play a back 3, sometimes a back 4 with two centre backs (and I think we will play more like that this season). He is second reserve for half our tactics, third reserve for the other half, and even if he doesn't do great Davies or Wanyama can step in for a half or a game.

Wimmer didn't get any games last season, so how is the bloke behind him going to play? Midfield is more competitive, so I can see Dier playing as CB more even in a two man partnership.

The idea that we need an experienced player as third reserve, especially when we have plenty of emergency options, winds me up and stops youth talent making the grade. If we had three experienced strikers, Adebayor, Soldado and one other, then Kane would never have got a chance. Same for midfield and Winks (and hopefully Onomah). Same for KWP, CCV, Edwards, whoever.

Aside from out and out, hit the byline wingers, we have options both main position and secondary position and a youth option (see right back - Trippier, KWP or Dier) for pretty much every position. I don't want a Fazio-esque player, not playing games but getting in a CCV's way. If one of Toby or Jan gets a big injury, then we can look at addressing it in January, but for half a season Toby/Jan, Dier, Wimmer, CCV/Davies/Wanyama setup looks fine to me, and makes me hopeful that another youngster might get a chance.

The quality of our team should mean playing a CCV at home against relegation fodder isn't a problem - even if he gives away a goal, we should be scoring more than two.

 

[yido_number1]

I wouldn't judge anyone in preseason. It's purely a fitness exercise to gain fitness and sharpness ahead of the season. All the teams you play are at different stages of pre season and the defensive unit are just getting used to working together again. Defence is the worst position to judge in preseason as any new instructions take time to learn and a player being out of position can make another not at fault look very silly.

Give it time people he looks a physical beast and worst case I'm sure we will get a good transfer fee out of him. Best case he makes it and we are all the better for it.

 

[littlewilly]

I wouldn't judge anyone in preseason. It's purely a fitness exercise to gain fitness and sharpness ahead of the season. All the teams you play are at different stages of pre season and the defensive unit are just getting used to working together again. Defence is the worst position to judge in preseason as any new instructions take time to learn and a player being out of position can make another not at fault look very silly.

Give it time people he looks a physical beast and worst case I'm sure we will get a good transfer fee out of him. Best case he makes it and we are all the better for it.

The difficulty is that this is often a crucial, make or break period for young, fringe players.

 

[yido_number1]

The difficulty is that this is often a crucial, make or break period for young, fringe players.

Good thing is Poch seems to spend a lot of time talking to the youth coaches and is more involved in the whole club. I doubt he is as knee jerk in his decision making as SC posters are. Poch having been a CB will know its easy to look bad and will no doubt give him time. I'd be surprised if he plays a lot this year but he will likely continue his development for the future.

Same goes for KWP as well. They will be asked to play with confidence and not worry about mistakes at this stage. I'd rather players played freely in pre season to learn what they can and can't do before putting it into play.

 

[cliff jones]

I don't know what was so wrong with giving CCV a meaningless pre-season friendly match. @cliff jones I don't understand why you hate him so much.

He is the fifth choice. Even Wimmer couldn't be able to get playing time last season.

Do you think Evans or Veltman will come to us knowing that they will be the fifth choice?

We might not even play 3 at the back with Trippier and Davies this year. I think we are more than fine with him being our 5th choice.

Hate? That's a big leap from what I've said. What next, I want him dead? Laughable overreaction.

 

[wlhatwhl]

The difficulty is that this is often a crucial, make or break period for young, fringe players.

You're right about that. Having progressed through the Academy, Dominic Ball went to US last July and played in the first game. He made two early costly mistakes and by early August had been sold to Rotherham.

With the World Cup last summer, Spurs had to use more Academy players for the early pre-season games and I don't know how highly Ball was regarded although he was a regular CB in the U-21 side, but his performance that day certainly didn't help or prolong his Spurs' career.

Over the years, even young players who have seemed to impress in early season games, haven't been able to build on those first opportunities in a Tottenham shirt and have quietly disappeared.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Tottenham Hotspur‏Verified account@SpursOfficial 6m6 minutes ago
Tom Glover has joined Australian side Central Coast Mariners on loan until the end of the A-League season. Good luck, Tom!

 

[coy-spurs1882]

Tottenham Hotspur‏Verified account@SpursOfficial 6m6 minutes ago
Tom Glover has joined Australian side Central Coast Mariners on loan until the end of the A-League season. Good luck, Tom!

probably also a goodbye to glover

 

[IGSpur]

Kane Patterson played in Scotlands 7-0 win, and Noni Madueke played for England u16s as they beat Uruguay 2-0

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Dier's presence will help these kids as he is able to play consistently well at any of CM, RCB, RB but in a 4231 is behind Wanyama/ Dembele, Alderweireld and Trippier respectively. The result, because he will expect to play most games, he will be used consistently as there will be many games and injuries/ suspensions, allowing us not to sign a new CM/ RB/ CB and therefore not stifling Onomah, KWP and CCV. These three boys will never have a better chance to put themselves in contention than this tour, and never a better chance to break through than this coming season.

Essentially our squad looks like:

Lloris
Vorm
Trippier Alderweireld Vertonghen Rose
WPeters CVickers Wimmer Davies
Wanyama Dembele
Onomah Winks
Eriksen Dele Son
Lamela Sissoko Nkoudou
Kane
Janssen
​

With those underlined in actual fact behind Dier, a player who Pochettino trusts as one of his leaders and someone who we can rely on to play consistently well, follow instructions and give his all. His presence means that signing a new Rb, Cb or Cm, while all would be nice, just isn't essential if the right player for us isn't attainable, so those three youngsters in particular have a real chance to break through (and Winks continued breaking through).

Onomah and Winks should not be behind Dier as CM's IMO, Dier was really fucking turgid last season as a CM. I reckon if you gave Onomah 5 straight games next to Wanyama, no-one would ever want to see Dier in CM ever again. Pretty much same Winks. Now if Wanyama and Dembele are out, that might be different, we might need Dier doing his Phil Jones impression, but I hope not, I don't ever want to see him play CM again.

And I certainly wouldn't want Dier ahead of KWP as a RB either. I think people seem to forget the mare he's had there a couple of times, giving pens away because he can't turn quickly etc. If KWP did anything that bad it would be "he's clearly not ready" blah blah.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Onomah and Winks should not be behind Dier as CM's IMO, Dier was really fucking turgid last season as a CM. I reckon if you gave Onomah 5 straight games next to Wanyama, no-one would ever want to see Dier in CM ever again. Pretty much same Winks. Now if Wanyama and Dembele are out, that might be different, we might need Dier doing his Phil Jones impression, but I hope not, I don't ever want to see him play CM again.

And I certainly wouldn't want Dier ahead of KWP as a RB either. I think people seem to forget the mare he's had there a couple of times, giving pens away because he can't turn quickly etc. If KWP did anything that bad it would be "he's clearly not ready" blah blah.

My point more than anything is that because the manager, rightly or wrongly, trusts him to perform across these positions it buys these kids the opportunity to break through rather than see expensive signings block their path continuously.

All KWP realistically needs now is to show in training that he is better than our utility man in that role, which I'm sure he can do, and he'll get his chance as Pochettino rotates fullbacks.

If we didn't have Dier by now we might have signed Pereira, Dier (once again rightly or wrongly) gives our manager the security not to do that, which in turn means that KWP has a manageable route into the team.

Or he might just see Sissoko as Walker's replacement ....

 

[Bus-Conductor]

My point more than anything is that because the manager, rightly or wrongly, trusts him to perform across these positions it buys these kids the opportunity to break through rather than see expensive signings block their path continuously.

All KWP realistically needs now is to show in training that he is better than our utility man in that role, which I'm sure he can do, and he'll get his chance as Pochettino rotates fullbacks.

If we didn't have Dier by now we might have signed Pereira, Dier (once again rightly or wrongly) gives our manager the security not to do that, which in turn means that KWP has a manageable route into the team.

Or he might just see Sissoko as Walker's replacement ....

Uh huh, uh huh...I get ya now BB. Sorry, as you were.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Uh huh, uh huh...I get ya now BB. Sorry, as you were.

BBLG, finding the positives in a quiet Spurs transfer window since 2002.

I still remember our sole signing being Tranezzani in 1998. We also had Titi Camara on trial, he looked amazing in a friendly at QPR. I was gutted when we didn't pursue.

While I haven't watched this youth team much, I follow what you and others say and am keen to see some breakthrough.

Funnily enough the last youth team I really saw was that of Mason, Townsend, Smith, Livermore Pritchard and, slightly younger, Kane.