The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[coys200]

I know winks has always been rated. But I’d be right in saying that Skipp is miles ahead of where winks was at just turned 18 ?

 

[Blake Griffin]

I know winks has always been rated. But I’d be right in saying that Skipp is miles ahead of where winks was at just turned 18 ?

i don't know about miles ahead as that discredits winks a bit but it wasn't until he was approaching 20 that he was playing at the same high level that skipp has been playing at for the past year.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

This is a great article with quotes from parents, scouts, and some coaches.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...remier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html

I found it as another person I interact with on various platform posted it.


I post to share not to create arguments, but this stuff is literally what I and others have been saying for however many years. How much is wasted. I try to convince fans but there is this perception that the manager will know best and if a player isn't played then they are not good enough. There's the fake promises and 'assurances' to keep talented players tied to clubs, where they stagnate and inevitably don't fulfil their potential and get told they were overrated and never good enough. I've said players will play with each other, they will know how good another youngster is, they train with the first team every now and then and can make comparisons. If they see someone not progressing they're wising up to not staying around. Parents are also wising up to the EL/CC con, where they get lip service minutes then fans will think they are being used but they aren't really seriously being considered, it's just to convince that talent to stay. Both in case there is no other option but to use them in a real risk averse but unplanned way, but also if they don't leave the club can't end up with egg on their face.

It mentions how youngsters are considered impatient for not waiting for their opportunity or trusting their club because they want to play at 18, when we know fans will crow about 18 year olds playing in weaker leagues. How there is a lack of trust in youth things many have been saying, and fans defending.

The amount of times, I used to go into the transfer thread and say we don't need to sign this player when we have him, to be mocked or told 'if they were good enough they'd be playing' or 'you don't know you're just a fan and don't see them in training'

Over the summer our fans were all desperate to buy Seri if I went in there and said we should just use so and so, it would have been the same.

I always see fans say, why can't we have scouts and find players like Dortmund do before they blow, and yet when we have those players we go and do what Fulham do anyway.

The scout was confused how they could buy Seri and another player, when they have O'Riley someone I've mentioned many times in the past playing u23 football. In fact I had actually expected him to get chances this year being at Fulham but it's probably affected him, them being in the PL which is why they brought Seri. But that is also our club all over. If we were after a Barca 17/18 year old we'd all be wetting ourselves, yet when Barca were looking at Edwards, and other clubs, and clubs home and abroad were looking at Onomah at 17, we had two major talents on our hands, and there was a lack of trust. We convinced them to stay here, and watch them stagnate and then have the cheek to say they weren't that good. Germany are laughing at us. There are now fans who probably think Marsh is better than Onomah due to what has happened. KWP is still struggling for first team football, and relied on heavy injuries on his side to get a chance. Took his chance,but once our worst players of the season is back and our signing who let's face it has a very questionable attitude are back, he drops to the bench again, and people believe when the manager says he trusts him as much or he is a genuine squad player. Yet doesn't get rotated in anywhere near as much unless there are injuries.

The only reason Hudosn-Odoi is now being played by Chelsea is because another club want to sign him. If Bayern weren't pursuing him so hard, they wouldn't care about him. Players like Baker, Colkett, Barker, Onomah,Chalobah, Edwards, Roberts absolutely wasted, as they were still being sold dreams and naively trusting the PL managers and clubs. It's great to see for England's sake that the players and more importantly the parents are starting to realise what is going on.

Annoyingly a lot of the 96/97/98s are still tied into contracts and are still stagnating, but hopefully they do the right thing and get out of their clubs and try to just go abroad. I'm aware they can't all go to Germany it doesn't make sense but France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland just get out, as staying here is a shamble.

I've posted quotes from scouts international and English, coaches here and abroad, sporting directors here and abroad, articles or information on other clubs being interested in our own players and yet the overriding belief that seems impossible to break here and I stress at every single PL club, so again no Poch attack here, is that why would a manager not play them if they were good enough to play for the first team, therefore said player is being overhyped and won't ever make it here. I've gone on Bluemoon the same was said about Sancho, I went on the Shedend the same is being said about Hudson-Odoi, impatient, trust the manager, if they don't want to trust and have a bad attitude they can leave, who can they replace, they've only played u23 football, they're arrogant, they manager wouldn't shoot himself in the foot on purpose, it's high risk, they're inexperienced. And yet there are fans here who believe that if those 'special' players were here things would be different whilst also simultaneously saying that our first eleven as good as everyone elses. There are always special players at other clubs, as we believe that other clubs have issues with giving youngsters a chance. But there aren't special players here as we know they'd get a chance if they were at the same level.

There are of course some fans that really want the chances to be given, but the general belief is the manager knows best, and when his head is on the block fair enough if he doesn't want to take the risk, but it's the lack of acknowledgement that these players are being wasted or are overhyped that is annoying or at fault for everything that is annoying to me. And clubs, if you're not going to use them let them go. There's not much that can be done as most fans won't see these players and really and truly trying to convince the fans of anything means nothing as that won't get them played but I post to firstly share what is going on in the youth world, but then also because I am passionate about wanting our club and country to do well, and I think we waste sooo much time and resources looking elsewhere when 8 times out of 10 we have a better player than anyone we can sign right under our nose.

Anyway here's another ex-Barca and current Wolves scout chiming in realising how much our players are being undervalued. After the great summer of 2017 I think people believed that things might be different in the PL, I said I think there'd be a lot of talk and good will and things will go back to normal and it basically has. Also so long as the PL is the richest league I don't things will change here as clubs are happy to buy em back. My number one concern we are producing equal talent but are most hamstrung by finances that is why I'm so frustrated by our own situation.

https://twitter.com/miguelrios__/status/1083099116794728448

How does our academy compare to our top 6 rivals ?

 

[coy-spurs1882]

with dele injured i hope we can see roles or georgiou involved

 

[coys200]

i don't know about miles ahead as that discredits winks a bit but it wasn't until he was approaching 20 that he was playing at the same high level that skipp has been playing at for the past year.

Didn’t actually realise Winks didn’t make his first PL start till 20.5 yrs. seems like he’s been around for ages. But shows Skipp has a 2.5 yr head start on him. Just makes you realise you should be quite lenient with Skipp performances at this stage.

 

[kmk]

Didn’t actually realise Winks didn’t make his first PL start till 20.5 yrs. seems like he’s been around for ages. But shows Skipp has a 2.5 yr head start on him. Just makes you realise you should be quite lenient with Skipp performances at this stage.

But you said that Skipp is no better than Mark Noble.

 

[Locotoro]

I think yesterday's match shows Winks is better when he has that freedom than as a holding player. I've not seen much of Skipp before his senior matches but he looks more comfortable as a holding player

 

[edson]

Didn’t actually realise Winks didn’t make his first PL start till 20.5 yrs. seems like he’s been around for ages. But shows Skipp has a 2.5 yr head start on him. Just makes you realise you should be quite lenient with Skipp performances at this stage.

Skipp just needs time to get bigger and stronger and he will be a massive player for us going forward.

 

[Anuth]

Our U19 will join Terborg tournament in Holland during 31st May - 2nd June. Last year, we finished 5th out of 8 teams

 

[edson]

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/teams/u18-team/1st-year-scholar/kane-patterson/

 

[Blake Griffin]

How does our academy compare to our top 6 rivals ?

depends on the criteria you're using i guess. if we just go purely by the quality and quantity of talent each academy is pumping out then chelsea are top, even when they have an army of players out on loan they still have competitive sides at u18 and u23 level so that just shows the depth of talent they have. also in fairness to them, whilst they do supplement their academy with kids brought in from abroad, the vast majority they already have there are local. after them i would say us, arsenal and utd are on a similar footing, at some point we might have the best group and at another it might be either of the other two. arsenal's academy was on a bit of a barren-run for a while but they've really picked up again in the past 2-3 years, i don't know if they're doing something different or it's just a hot streak but they have some very talented players coming through. utd and us are quite similar in that we both steadily produce good players with the occasional very good one amongst them. city's academy is basically a mini version of their first team, they buy in players from all over and stick them together, i'm reluctant to even call what they have an academy but this year neither of their teams are doing very well. liverpool aren't much different in that regard either, they don't seem to have an abundance of local talent so they hawk around other clubs for the best 15-16 year olds.

where we're different though is the type of player we focus on, it's no coincidence that we have so many smaller than average players throughout the ranks. ideally you'd have players with the perfect blend of athleticism/physique and technical ability but if we can't get those with both then we'll prioritise the latter and bank on them being late-developers physically.

 

[IGSpur]

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/teams/u18-team/1st-year-scholar/kane-patterson/

A little younger than Jesus

 

[edson]

A little younger than Jesus

I had no idea he was there.

 

[IGSpur]

I know winks has always been rated. But I’d be right in saying that Skipp is miles ahead of where winks was at just turned 18 ?

As BG said, from memory I wasn't advocating for Winks to get minutes until he was 19 I think. And that would have been 5mins here and there to start integrating him, along with Onomah or one or the other. At the time I thought Winks would become a good CM for us, and save us having to buy one in the future, which is what he is doing. Skipp is dominating games a lot more than at a younger age. Funnily enough Winks was the one playing international football, which is an indication of how good Skipp's age group is.

 

[IGSpur]

I had no idea he was there.

I thought I had posted it a while back

EDIT - quick search confirms I hadn't

 

[edson]

I thought I had posted it a while back

Did QPR not look at him?

 

[IGSpur]

Did QPR not look at him?

I don't know to tell you the truth. I was just aware this time last year that he hadn't been offered a contract. Can't remember when I found out he'd joined Burnely

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

depends on the criteria you're using i guess. if we just go purely by the quality and quantity of talent each academy is pumping out then chelsea are top, even when they have an army of players out on loan they still have competitive sides at u18 and u23 level so that just shows the depth of talent they have. also in fairness to them, whilst they do supplement their academy with kids brought in from abroad, the vast majority they already have there are local. after them i would say us, arsenal and utd are on a similar footing, at some point we might have the best group and at another it might be either of the other two. arsenal's academy was on a bit of a barren-run for a while but they've really picked up again in the past 2-3 years, i don't know if they're doing something different or it's just a hot streak but they have some very talented players coming through. utd and us are quite similar in that we both steadily produce good players with the occasional very good one amongst them. city's academy is basically a mini version of their first team, they buy in players from all over and stick them together, i'm reluctant to even call what they have an academy but this year neither of their teams are doing very well. liverpool aren't much different in that regard either, they don't seem to have an abundance of local talent so they hawk around other clubs for the best 15-16 year olds.

where we're different though is the type of player we focus on, it's no coincidence that we have so many smaller than average players throughout the ranks. ideally you'd have players with the perfect blend of athleticism/physique and technical ability but if we can't get those with both then we'll prioritise the latter and bank on them being late-developers physically.

Really interesting, thank you. Is the success of Chelsea’s academy down to the groundwork laid by Arnesen or just paying their players more or something else ? Could we compete in the future ?

 

[newbie]

Be interesting to see who gets called up to the first team in the next month or so.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

For several players its now or never time Roles and Georgiou both have contracts up in the summer and the club has not yet moved - Harrison is probably in the same spot and his chance has surely gone not sure about Sterling but he at least made the bench