Tottenham hand transfers control to manager Mauricio Pochettino...

[Everlasting Seconds]

The black box was the name of his Football Manager-esque algorithm isn't it?

I.e. in terms of a black box being 'a system which can be viewed in terms of its inputs and outputs without any knowledge of its internal workings'.

Request a high energy LWF, the black box system does it's enigma machine whirling, and out pops 4 names etc.

Well, maybe we are talking about the same thing but focus on different aspects on it? As I said, they've got a mini-cinema/meeting room. You sit down and watch a big screen with data and output on various players (and managers, if you wish). As you point out, you need no technical/computer insight, you can simply sit down and enjoy the ride. However, the core of this place is of course the data cruncher, the thing you put all your data & info into. Without that, it is simply a meeting room without windows but with an over sized TV screen. I was under the impression that "black box" is a reference to this meeting room/cinema, but it may very well be the computer software/hardware (or both, as a complete entity).

 

[SteveH]

The only person to ever stand up to Levy about transfers was Redknapp and we know that will only ever be tolerated for so long before the axe comes out.

We're screwed until his fingers are prised off the controls.

And you know this how?
WE DON'T BLOODY KNOW

None of us "know" diddly squat of who did/said what to who.

Only fact is, we cannot outbid Chelsea and the like.

But as for the rest, 'people' are making things up and then using them as fact, you are just guessing.

 

[nidge]

Well, maybe we are talking about the same thing but focus on different aspects on it? As I said, they've got a mini-cinema/meeting room. You sit down and watch a big screen with data and output on various players (and managers, if you wish). As you point out, you need no technical/computer insight, you can simply sit down and enjoy the ride. However, the core of this place is of course the data cruncher, the thing you put all your data & info into. Without that, it is simply a meeting room without windows but with an over sized TV screen. I was under the impression that "black box" is a reference to this meeting room/cinema, but it may very well be the computer software/hardware (or both, as a complete entity).

From my understanding the Black Box is a proprietary software designed in house by Southampton to provide all sort of analysis from scouting potential players to performance management of current players (both 1st team and youth teams.)

Here's an interesting piece on it from the southern echo.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/11582234.display/

 

[jezz]

The only person to ever stand up to Levy about transfers was Redknapp and we know that will only ever be tolerated for so long before the axe comes out.

We're screwed until his fingers are prised off the controls.

Who did rednapp actually sign?

 

[mjay]

The black box was the name of his Football Manager-esque algorithm isn't it?

I.e. in terms of a black box being 'a system which can be viewed in terms of its inputs and outputs without any knowledge of its internal workings'.

Request a high energy LWF, the black box system does it's enigma machine whirling, and out pops 4 names etc.

I would guess the process would be more like we have a database of players ,presumably one shared by FM ( clubs do invest in databases of games ) and then Mitchell would use his custom modelling algorithms which would factor in lot more models than the FM one and come up with predictions for all the players in the database.
We would then pursue players which would interest us and then scout them and would rerun the analysis algorithms with the inputs gleaned from the manual scouting machine and extrapolate over a period of time to get better an accurate forecasting.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

It will probably take Mitchell a while to re-write (and hopefully improve) the algorithms, as Southampton presumable own the IP of the black box.

All due respect to Mitchell, I'd be shocked if he is the "programmer" who wrote the code and algorithms behind the black box.

 

[mjay]

All due respect to Mitchell, I'd be shocked if he is the "programmer" who wrote the code and algorithms behind the black box.

I do not think he is as well.
I think he knows algorithms and frameworks and is good at using tools like Tableau to make accurate forecasts of player which really does not mean he has to be a developer. He is what you would call a Data Scientist who also happens to be a subject matter expert in the field of football.

 

[THFC 1882]

We have worked very hard in the last six months to identify our targets, to have a clear idea and picture, we analyse and assess all the situations to deliver in the summer," said Pochettino

http://sport.bt.com/sport-football/news/poch-targets-successful-summer-S11363979807050?

 

[slartibartfast]

Can I ask a question to you guys please?
Be very interested to hear what you think.
Are you expecting any new signings who are experienced, supposedly decent players, to hit the ground running?
Or will we be hearing the same excuses since Harry was sacked?
It's his first season.
He needs time to settle.
Next season he'll come good I'll bet my wife on it.
This season was always a work in progress.
Blah blah blah.

I seriously don't think I can go through hearing that crap again lol.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Can I ask a question to you guys please?
Be very interested to hear what you think.
Are you expecting any new signings who are experienced, supposedly decent players, to hit the ground running?
Or will we be hearing the same excuses since Harry was sacked?
It's his first season.
He needs time to settle.
Next season he'll come good I'll bet my wife on it.
This season was always a work in progress.
Blah blah blah.

I seriously don't think I can go through hearing that crap again lol.

What we expect and what we get are different things. I'm sure all our head coaches well agree.
However, I do expect a small number of players who will instantly improve our starting line up. Failing that, I expect (and hope for) no signings at all expect for youngsters who most obviously are signings for the far future.

 

[slartibartfast]

I thought 'black box' was a reference to an 'aircraft blonde' ie, a young brunette who's dyed her her blonde

Apologies ladies couldnt help myself.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I guess in my perfect world, our recruitment efforts would work like this:

Pochettino: "I need a player to play an inverted RW."

Pochettino and Mitchell: "These are the specific attributes that make a player an effective inverted RW: X, Y, and Z."

Mitchell (and his team): "Here are a list of players who meet that criteria."

Broomfield and Scouts: "Here are our assessments of those players."

Mitchell (and team), Pochettino, Scouts: "Here is the short-list of players we want to pursue."

Baldini: "Here are the current valuations of those players by their current teams. Here is where I think we can reasonably negotiate to."

Levy: "Here is the transfer budget. All player transfers must fit within this budget, and must adhere to our general philosophy of not overpaying for a single player."

Pochettino: "Go get this player, at this price."

 

[SteveH]

I guess in my perfect world, our recruitment efforts would work like this:

Pochettino: "I need a player to play an inverted RW."

Pochettino and Mitchell: "These are the specific attributes that make a player an effective inverted RW: X, Y, and Z."

Mitchell (and his team): "Here are a list of players who meet that criteria."

Broomfield and Scouts: "Here are our assessments of those players."

Mitchell (and team), Pochettino, Scouts: "Here is the short-list of players we want to pursue."

Baldini: "Here are the current valuations of those players by their current teams. Here is where I think we can reasonably negotiate to."

Levy: "Here is the transfer budget. All player transfers must fit within this budget, and must adhere to our general philosophy of not overpaying for a single player."

Pochettino: "Go get this player, at this price."

Then Chelsea offer him double the salary!

I think you are spot on, but life is rarely that simple.

 

[NEVILLEB]

And you know this how?
WE DON'T BLOODY KNOW

None of us "know" diddly squat of who did/said what to who.

Only fact is, we cannot outbid Chelsea and the like.

But as for the rest, 'people' are making things up and then using them as fact, you are just guessing.

It's not just about outbidding bigger clubs it's being clever with who you bring into the club. Strong, experienced characters like Parker, Friedel, Gallas, etc.

Redknapp did have control of the transfers at the beginning. It was a condition of him joining.

That privilege should be mandatory not something fought over.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

I thought 'black box' was a reference to an 'aircraft blonde' ie, a young brunette who's dyed her her blonde

Apologies ladies couldnt help myself.

Bloody hell, mate.

 

[lukespurs7]

It's not just about outbidding bigger clubs it's being clever with who you bring into the club. Strong, experienced characters like Parker, Friedel, Gallas, etc.

Redknapp did have control of the transfers at the beginning. It was a condition of him joining.

That privilege should be mandatory not something fought over.

These were all fantastic signings, Fridel was the solid keep we'd been calling out for, Gallas was world class and brought a winning attitude and Parker was a revelation and got an england captincy for it.

 

[prawnsandwich]

Oh gawd. One minute he is only the head coach, then he is the manager.
Now he wants to do the buying. Or does he?
We don't really know what he wants because he can't speak English to an acceptable standard that he can explain himself to the media.
Suits Levy, I suppose.

 

[ButchCassidy]

We don't really know what he wants because he can't speak English to an acceptable standard that he can explain himself to the media.

We don't really know what he wants because he is professional enough to work it out behind closed doors like an employee of THFC and not by constantly leaking info to the papers like a twat.

 

[jayesar]

For what it's worth, black box in the context of software means a system where the internals are not exposed. Basically, you can use it without understanding the complexities under the hood.

My assumption is that Southamptons black box is simply provide input (e.g. I need a quick winger who is good in the air) and get output (e.g. list of names). They can then use this shortlist to scout further.

Regarding how it works, if I had to have a guess, would be via either artificial intelligence / machine learning whereby you provide feedback over time to output generated to 'train' the software, or an algorithm that compares current data on a player against some criteria. For example you could look at the overlaps between current successful wingers when in their youth (e.g. goals per game at youth level, speed, how high they jump, take on win % etc) to generate a criteria for promising young winger and then scan existing players for matches.

As long as you had the raw data on hand, it wouldn't be too tough to throw together. Biggest problem is that it would take half a decade to fine tune.

I can explain further how I imagine it works for a programming perspective if anyone cares.

 

[Vwbottom]