Tottenham Physios/Medical Staff/ Athletic Improvements

[EQP]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the same teams/managers have the worst problems. I believe that most managers in the EPL over train players, which causes a lot of injuries.

Raymond Verheijen was a fitness coach under Mark Hughes at Man City (he left when MH was fired) and they had the probably best fitness and least amount of injuries in the league.

Raymond Verheijen has spoken out about how Arsene Wenger over trains and brings players back too quickly and has predicted players breaking down shortly after returning from injury. Whilst VDV was here, he said we over trained him and before last season began, he said Van Persie would have less injuries under Sir Alex due to his training methods he set up for RVP and before this season he said RVP would have injury issues due to Moyes "Dinosaur" methods.

BTW, when I say over train, I just mean in fitness/strength training, not technique & Tactics.

Here is his study on recovery, it's a good read if you haven't read it already.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...sios-medical-staff.106855/page-3#post-3879547

 

[EQP]

What evidence is that then? A piece of ITK (in other words bullshit). It's the usual "why does it it always rain on me" mentality. You just notice long lay offs when its your own side. It happens to every single football club out there.

Well said, it only seems like we're suffering the most amount of most significant injuries because we are constantly aware of our own players and their time out.

 

[parklane_B39-R16-S25]

New training ground could have something to do with all the injuries and lack of recovery.

 

[gushayes11]

I don't think it is a coincidence that the same teams/managers have the worst problems. I believe that most managers in the EPL over train players, which causes a lot of injuries.

Raymond Verheijen was a fitness coach under Mark Hughes at Man City (he left when MH was fired) and they had the probably best fitness and least amount of injuries in the league.

Raymond Verheijen has spoken out about how Arsene Wenger over trains and brings players back too quickly and has predicted players breaking down shortly after returning from injury. Whilst VDV was here, he said we over trained him and before last season began, he said Van Persie would have less injuries under Sir Alex due to his training methods he set up for RVP and before this season he said RVP would have injury issues due to Moyes "Dinosaur" methods.

BTW, when I say over train, I just mean in fitness/strength training, not technique & Tactics.

Seems to know his stuff. Clever man.

 

[jambreck]

New training ground could have something to do with all the injuries and lack of recovery.

??

Why?

There is nothing out of the ordinary occurring.

We haven't suffered an especially high number of injuries. Nor have those who have been injured taken especially long to recover.

Both Kaboul and Sandro suffered bad injuries during games rather than training - away from WHL, for that matter - and, like a great many other athletes to have suffered such serious injuries, they have subsequently been more vulnerable to picking up further injuries. There is nothing unusual in that.

The human body is imperfect and unpredictable. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. Accept it. Stop looking for sensational explanations and apportioning blame.

 

[EQP]

New training ground could have something to do with all the injuries and lack of recovery.

Possibly, if it was a longer commute to the new training ground that could be issue for some players. I know Jack Rodwell had to get a different car because

“I had a low sports car,” Rodwell said. “That wasn’t necessarily the reason [for the injury], but it was a factor. I also changed my pillows and moved a bit closer to Manchester as well because I didn’t want to be sat in the same position [driving] for an hour a day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-moves-house-to-tackle-injury-nightmares.html

 

[allatsea]

Possibly, if it was a longer commute to the new training ground that could be issue for some players. I know Jack Rodwell had to get a different car because



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-moves-house-to-tackle-injury-nightmares.html

what will he do when he gets older ? Stop travelling ?

 

[EQP]

what will he do when he gets older ? Stop travelling ?

Buy a magic carpet, he can definitely afford one.

 

[parklane_B39-R16-S25]

??

Why?

There is nothing out of the ordinary occurring.

We haven't suffered an especially high number of injuries. Nor have those who have been injured taken especially long to recover.

Both Kaboul and Sandro suffered bad injuries during games rather than training - away from WHL, for that matter - and, like a great many other athletes to have suffered such serious injuries, they have subsequently been more vulnerable to picking up further injuries. There is nothing unusual in that.

The human body is imperfect and unpredictable. Injuries are part and parcel of the game. Accept it. Stop looking for sensational explanations and apportioning blame.

Could be anything....the indoor astro turf, training regime...Tim have an interview on spurs tv today and it says any of our first team who didn't go to Ukraine have all got niggles...ade, Hugo, kaboul, sandros injured again... U have to admit it is a bit frustrating !

 

[EQP]

Could be anything....the indoor astro turf, training regime...Tim have an interview on spurs tv today and it says any of our first team who didn't go to Ukraine have all got niggles...ade, Hugo, kaboul, sandros injured again... U have to admit it is a bit frustrating !

Regarding that bit, it would be safe to assume that Tim wants to keep those players fresh and fit for the league. It's manager speak for " EL is not important enough to risk these players".

 

[nidge]

Not Spurs but this from Gary Monk about Michu is a prime example of what I believe is wrong with injury recovery within football.

Head coach Monk said: 'It's just a little bit of pain he can't quite get over that you can sometimes get and I've had it myself. You get to a good level but it's on your mind, that last bit of pain which is enough to affect your training. The pain threshold is just a little bit too much.

'He's having injection and then will rest because you can't do anything until it takes effect and then you build up again.'

Monk insisted the latest setback and the continued delays surrounding his return – he was initially expected to be out for six weeks – will not necessitate further surgery.

He added: 'He is in contention for next weekend (against Crystal Palace on March 2) or maybe Napoli away - it's how he reacts after the injection because it can either work straight away or 24 hours later.

'It's not been quick and it's disappointing for him because he's so close. It's not because he's breaking down and physically he's at a good level and the injury has healed, it's just that last little bit of pain. He doesn't need more surgery. He's at a good level (of fitness), it's not about going back to the start.'

If a player is requiring pain-killing injection to train how can it be considered that the injury is healed?

 

[beats1]

If a player is requiring pain-killing injection to train how can it be considered that the injury is healed?

I don't think they should be allowed tbh, there was allow about this a while back on how they can cause you much more pain/injuries in the long term

 

[wallyjakeman]

The high amount of injuries got me thinking. I know Jose Mario Rocha was pretty high regarded as a physio coach, have we replaced him? I also read that the guy who posted the video of Lamela working in the gym was supposed to be an argentinian physio.
Just wondering, does anyone know how our physio team is set up nowadays?

 

[Nocando]

4-4-2.

No idea. No doubt we'll soon be hearing from that Dutch twat that always sticks his oar in and thinks he knows so much about injuries but yet always gets sacked.

 

[absolute bobbins]

 

[Grey Fox]

Is that the one City and Liverpool used to wipe the floor with us?

 

[aRTy]

What's baffled me is the types of injuries we've been getting. At the old training ground wasn't it always ankles? something to do with the steps they walked up to the training pitch or some twoddle. Now it seems to be back injuries. Wonder if it's sheer coincidence or something at the training complex?

 

[Imnotacticalgenius]

I have mentioned this before at some other threads previously. Maybe need to look into 2 parts.

Part 1.

I noticed that when we had Arry, the training injuries was high. Now with TS, the training injury
is high too. When we had Ramos, our players were super fit and training injuries were low.
Under AVB, Training injuries were low too. And AVB also allows injured returning players time to get back
to full fitness. I know that both Ramos and AVB has Specialist Fitness Coach. Do we have a Specialist Fitness
Coach under Arry and now? So maybe it is good to look how the warm up, stretching and exercise were
administered? For all you know, the players are asked to do some obsolete exercises.


Part 2.

So after getting injured, what are recovery/conditioning regime that the Medical/Physio team administered
on each individual with their respective injury. Are the players able to come back to full fitness on time? If not, why? How many of these players, are not able to reach full fitness on time? What is the team performances in getting players back from injury, compared to the rest of the Elite Clubs? Or compared to other BPL Clubs? Any statistics on this?

 

[EQP]

The high amount of injuries got me thinking. I know Jose Mario Rocha was pretty high regarded as a physio coach, have we replaced him? I also read that the guy who posted the video of Lamela working in the gym was supposed to be an argentinian physio.
Just wondering, does anyone know how our physio team is set up nowadays?

I made a informative thread about player injuries and physios ( i am sports medicine student in college so everything i wrote was from either experience working at soccer clubs or from more qualified sports medicine/sports science pros)

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/tottenham-physios-medical-staff.106855/






Been seeing quite a few comments about the incompetency of the Tottenham medical staff and wanted to clarify a few things before they become the new scapegoat for why players are always out injured and blamed for any future failures.
Why are our players always hurt?

Several possible reasons for that, unfortunately injuries are part and parcel of the game. From severe acute injuries to more bothersome chronic injuries, there is no 100% way to prevent injuries so scrap that idea from your head. But there are factors that can lead to further time on the physio table

• Players rushing back - This is a major issue, frequently players want to play through the pain and take care of any underlying issue after the season is over. The body doesn't work that way, any improper form (and increased load) or dysfunction will cause the player to break down at some point and cause even more issues ( bad ankle moblity can lead to knee instability which can alter hip mobility). Also players can overdo the rehab work ( in the hopes of getting fit quicker, seeing multiple physios or jumping on the latest fix-all that they've heard about ) or on the flipside not do enough helpful recovery ( physios/medical staff are with players at the max 6 hours, helping with rehab, if the players cannot be responsible the other 18 hours then recovery becomes an issue).
• Managers rushing players back- I actually heard a quite a few managers say that " i'd rather have a 50% John Smith playing rather than him missing the game" without truly understanding the consequences of rushing an injured player back. With the stakes being incredibly high in the league and managers wanting their best players available to help win games, this becomes a prevalent issue. Unfortunately, this can be damaging to the player on a two levels. First, physically because the likely hood of injury is increased. Secondly, mentally because if a manager is personally nudging a player to play who isn't fit, the player might feel that failling to do so will affect any future starts or minutes on the field or worse lose the managers faith in him. All of which lead invariably back to more time on the physio table.
• Injury History/Prone - Some players, due to physiological differences etc are just prone to injuries. It then becomes a case of managing these players and using techniques to reduce the extent of the injury (rather than "curing" it). Players who tend to have acute severe injuries (ACL/MCL, broken leg) become susceptible to even more injuries in the future. We can see this with players returning from long layoffs (Kaboul - Knee Injury) having to deal with niggling muscular strain or ligament sprains on his road to recovery.
• Plain Bad Luck - In form of training injuries, sometimes a players get hurt while trying to get back to fitness, tis a way of life. I also believe Lamela falls into this category of plain bad luck. New country, new language, new more physical league, him having to justify his transfer fee etc have all played into his injury. There is a photo of him staying back after a game to to work on his shot , so it is not unimaginable to see him doing some extra work on his own outside of the training center in order for him to get to grips with the league. And with the psychological stress of wanting to adapt quickly and make the WC team, we should be thankful he hasn't completely broken down. Fortunately at 21/22 he still has to time to grow into his body and find ways to cope with the demands of the game.
• Bad Physios/Staff - As much as we would like to blame them for players being out longer than expected, they rarely deserve the blame. They are good (if not great) at what they do. These are the same guys that saved Muamba's life! The same guys that insisted the Hugo go off the field but AVB decided otherwise! THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! You really think Levy would sanction a new training center, buy players of value and then assemble a bunch of clowns to look and care for his investments THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! Alot of people fail to realize just how demanding the world of sports medicine is. Dealing with constant change from new training regimes and equipment, they have to stay up to date to ensure that the players are getting the best and most applicable form of treatment available. AGAIN THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.And if you doubt that they do know what they are doing , here is a video of Wayne Diesel, Head of Medical Services at Tottenham, delivering a seminar on "Eccentric Rehab"...if you feel you understand more than half the information he's delivering maybe you should be the Tottenham physio instead
  
  
• I just remembered another factor that can lead to player injuries
  
  Managers/ Headcoaches set in their way- I remember a case where we received new equipment and were to do baseline testing with the players for the upcoming season. The Head Coach of the club wasn't to sure about this because he felt all this new tech was just a distraction (and also he didn't understand how to interpret the data). So we tried our best to make the data easy to digest for everyone. We made tables showing HR/HR AVG/ WK LOAD/ CALS/TIME etc, for a 1 week or so everything seemed good. Unbeknownst to us the Head Coach was looking at HR after each session and giving the players he perceived with lower HR's more work to do because he felt they weren't working hard enough in training. We began to see an increase in muscular strains soon after without knowing the cause until one of the players remarked that he had to cut down on a strength session to do some extra cardio work that the coach had issued. We were baffled because the player in question was in the top 3 fittest players in the team!! So we asked the coach what the reasoning was behind the extra work and he said something on the lines off " Because they had low HR'S after my training sessions, which means that they were being lazy!!". So we had to clear up all the confusion and let him know that he had to take into effect Workload when looking at HR and that a lower HR in this case was indicative of high level of cardiovascular efficiency (extremely fit). He was not thrilled that he was wrong and decided that we stop using the charts because he didn't appreciate not knowing what the information meant and to him it was superfluous
  
  So we stopped with the charts but still recorded after each session for our records so we could go back and see how to best to approach each strength session and recovery for each player.
  
  Sometimes managers/head coaches are unwilling to adapt to new methods of player improvement and insist the old ways of "make em run till they puke" will reap more benefits. It is at times an uphill struggle to sell true scientific methods of improvement to them because they have already been successful without them.

 

[EQP]

bump