Tottenham Physios/Medical Staff/ Athletic Improvements

[EQP]

I have mentioned this before at some other threads previously. Maybe need to look into 2 parts.

Part 1.

I noticed that when we had Arry, the training injuries was high. Now with TS, the training injury
is high too. When we had Ramos, our players were super fit and training injuries were low.
Under AVB, Training injuries were low too. And AVB also allows injured returning players time to get back
to full fitness. I know that both Ramos and AVB has Specialist Fitness Coach. Do we have a Specialist Fitness
Coach under Arry and now? So maybe it is good to look how the warm up, stretching and exercise were
administered? For all you know, the players are asked to do some obsolete exercises.


Part 2.

1.So after getting injured, what are recovery/conditioning regime that the Medical/Physio team administered
on each individual with their respective injury.
2Are the players able to come back to full fitness on time? .If not, why? How many of these players, are not able to reach full fitness on time?
3.What is the team performances in getting players back from injury, compared to the rest of the Elite Clubs?
4.Or compared to other BPL Clubs? Any statistics on this?

Can't really answer Part 1 since few of us have been privy to training methods used by previous and current coaches but i will try my best to answer some of Part 2.

1. Each player, before the start of the season and right after the end, go through baseline fitness testing ( this includes FMS (functional movement system), cardio testing, ECG and a barrage of other health assessments) in order to set baseline values for the sports science team to have on hand. This allows the team to specifically administer certain preventive and corrective exercises to each player in order to decrease dysfunction. These recovery regimes range from pool work to Alter G ( anti gravity treadmills) , to pneumatic devices like the one
Lamela was using in order to get the players back fit.

2. Regarding players returning to action in time, one has to understand that sports science is more art than science lol as it is the physios are with the players maybe 4-5 hours a day rehabbing so that leaves 19 or so hours where the players could undo all that rehab work ( by either not getting enough rest, doing extra rehab work on their own or really not following the proper protocol with the regards to recovery ).

3 and 4 i would need to see data before i can speak on.

 

[wallyjakeman]

bump

Cheers, great post. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to blame the physios for the injuries, just curious about the setup and methods. Really interesting read.

 

[EQP]

Cheers, great post. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to blame the physios for the injuries, just curious about the setup and methods. Really interesting read.

I understand, you brought up some great questions i hoped i at least made some sense with my answers.

 

[SpurSince57]

I was just discussing this with Spurs9 in the Stephen Cauker thread, and looked at the Physioroom records since 2007-08. We don't do brilliantly (and seem to have got worse in recent seasons), but are far from the worst. The real eye-openers are how crap Arsenal are and how good Stoke are. Really worth a look.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2013_14/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2012_13/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2011_12/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2010_11/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2009_10/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2008_09/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2007_08/injury_analysis.php

 

[EQP]

I was just discussing this with Spurs9 in the Stephen Cauker thread, and looked at the Physioroom records since 2007-08. We don't do brilliantly (and seem to have got worse in recent seasons), but are far from the worst. The real eye-openers are how crap Arsenal are and how good Stoke are. Really worth a look.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2013_14/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2012_13/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2011_12/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2010_11/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2009_10/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2008_09/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2007_08/injury_analysis.php

Great stuff. I think Mark Hughes teams tend to do well with injuries and prevention. Mark works with Raymond Verheijen (sp) who preaches the need to taper training intensity during the off-season and a strict less is more philosophy during the season.

 

[spurs9]

Great stuff. I think Mark Hughes teams tend to do well with injuries and prevention. Mark works with Raymond Verheijen (sp) who preaches the need to taper training intensity during the off-season and a strict less is more philosophy during the season.

It is actually Damian Roden that he is working with at Stoke. Damien is a student of the same methodology as Verheijen (who as you rightly said has worked with Hughes before at Man City).

FYI, Roden and Verjeijen worked together under Speed for Wales.

 

[spurs9]

I was just discussing this with Spurs9 in the Stephen Cauker thread, and looked at the Physioroom records since 2007-08. We don't do brilliantly (and seem to have got worse in recent seasons), but are far from the worst. The real eye-openers are how crap Arsenal are and how good Stoke are. Really worth a look.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2013_14/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2012_13/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2011_12/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2010_11/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2009_10/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2008_09/injury_analysis.php

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/2007_08/injury_analysis.php

Does this go back further? Would be intersted to see what the injury record was like under Jol.

Interestingly, the season's under the Jol/Ramos split and Ramos half season are the lowest mins of injuries. Holland and Spain have a high number of coaches who practice the less is more philosphy that SlumDilla was talking about.

We then hire a more old school style manager and they start to increase until we have one of the worst records in the league, then we hire a more progressive manager and they decrease substantially.

On the Season we have AVB/Sherwood (who is believed a more old school style manager) they shoot up again. It would be interesting to see how many mins of injuries we had under AVB compared to Sherwood this season but my memory (which could be completely wrong) tells me it would be fairly even.

 

[beats1]

Does this go back further? Would be intersted to see what the injury record was like under Jol.

Interestingly, the season's under the Jol/Ramos split and Ramos half season are the lowest mins of injuries. Holland and Spain have a high number of coaches who practice the less is more philosphy that SlumDilla was talking about.

We then hire a more old school style manager and they start to increase until we have one of the worst records in the league, then we hire a more progressive manager and they decrease substantially.

On the Season we have AVB/Sherwood (who is believed a more old school style manager) they shoot up again. It would be interesting to see how many mins of injuries we had under AVB compared to Sherwood this season but my memory (which could be completely wrong) tells me it would be fairly even.

Well clearly we know the problem, Tomato ketchup is causing all our injuries. Maybe it was the ketchup and not Lasagne that caused the food poisoning

 

[SpurSince57]

Does this go back further? Would be intersted to see what the injury record was like under Jol.

Interestingly, the season's under the Jol/Ramos split and Ramos half season are the lowest mins of injuries. Holland and Spain have a high number of coaches who practice the less is more philosphy that SlumDilla was talking about.

We then hire a more old school style manager and they start to increase until we have one of the worst records in the league, then we hire a more progressive manager and they decrease substantially.

On the Season we have AVB/Sherwood (who is believed a more old school style manager) they shoot up again. It would be interesting to see how many mins of injuries we had under AVB compared to Sherwood this season but my memory (which could be completely wrong) tells me it would be fairly even.

Unfortunately not. In 2005-06, however, we did have very few injuries. Robinson played every game, Carrick 35, Jenas 30, King 26, Dawson 32 (and games out included a suspension), Lee 31, Stalteri 33, Keane and Defoe 36, Mido 27, Davids 31 (despite a hairline shin fracture or something), Tainio 24, Lennon 27 (and deliberately used sparingly). I don't think I've forgotten any of the key players, so that means nine of them managed 30+ games. Admittedly we went out of both cups in the first round, but that's still pretty impressive.

 

[Spursidol]

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...-unlucky-injuries-weren-t-only-185533568.html

Any thoughts on these stats - we had the most 'key inuurues' of all PL clubs last season. Or is it just the lucjk of the draw

 

[Spursidol]

Unfortunately not. In 2005-06, however, we did have very few injuries. Robinson played every game, Carrick 35, Jenas 30, King 26, Dawson 32 (and games out included a suspension), Lee 31, Stalteri 33, Keane and Defoe 36, Mido 27, Davids 31 (despite a hairline shin fracture or something), Tainio 24, Lennon 27 (and deliberately used sparingly). I don't think I've forgotten any of the key players, so that means nine of them managed 30+ games. Admittedly we went out of both cups in the first round, but that's still pretty impressive.

But in 2005/06 we only played 40 games if I'm not mistaken, so mainly one game a week allowing for good recovery time from each game, which must be ideal time to recover from any minor knocks which then have no chance to get worse.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Are the effects of participating in a major close-season tournament like the World Cup well understood?

Aside from the obvious risk of direct injury, is it known whether a player's performance will actually be affected later in the season if he's played some major competitive summer matches compared with others who haven't?

 

[EQP]

Are the effects of participating in a major close-season tournament like the World Cup well understood?

Aside from the obvious risk of direct injury, is it known whether a player's performance will actually be affected later in the season if he's played some major competitive summer matches compared with others who haven't?

For sure. The added workload of having to play throughout the entire year without adequate rest WILL affect the players. I can almost guarantee that the likes of Paulinho, Moose ( with his bum hip) will pick up some muscular injuries and struggle to perform at their highest level (especially Paulinho who's had 2 years of consistent, competitive play for his country) .

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Great stuff. I think Mark Hughes teams tend to do well with injuries and prevention. Mark works with Raymond Verheijen (sp) who preaches the need to taper training intensity during the off-season and a strict less is more philosophy during the season.

Worked with and seen Verheijen up close he has some pretty amazing theories but also correct ones he reshaped the welsh teams single handedly made players realise how unprofessional it was.

Would love to have him at spurs.

He also can tell you when and why players get injured amazingly neither he also worked closely with bale to get the beast we have now

 

[Kendall]

Yes, i'm a Sport Medicine major in the USA. I've been fortunate enough to intern at some MLS teams here in the states as well as visit some clubs overseas.

Will you please fix the chronic tendonitis in my right knee? Thx.

 

[Spursidol]

For sure. The added workload of having to play throughout the entire year without adequate rest WILL affect the players. I can almost guarantee that the likes of Paulinho, Moose ( with his bum hip) will pick up some muscular injuries and struggle to perform at their highest level (especially Paulinho who's had 2 years of consistent, competitive play for his country) .

Thanks for all the inside information on medical things.

As you say Paulhino has had 2 years of consisyten competitive play for Spurs, Corinthians and Brazil - Confederations Cup last summer and world cup thios summer. What sort of rest period does he really need to recover - is it say a month ? At the moment I think he's got 2 weeks off after a fairly miserable World Cup for Brazil

 

[C-oops]

Worked with and seen Verheijen up close he has some pretty amazing theories but also correct ones he reshaped the welsh teams single handedly made players realise how unprofessional it was.

Would love to have him at spurs.

He also can tell you when and why players get injured amazingly neither he also worked closely with bale to get the beast we have now

I like reading what he has to say about managers overtraining players.. he's pretty critical of Wenger especially..

 

[EQP]

Thanks for all the inside information on medical things.

As you say Paulhino has had 2 years of consisyten competitive play for Spurs, Corinthians and Brazil - Confederations Cup last summer and world cup thios summer. What sort of rest period does he really need to recover - is it say a month ? At the moment I think he's got 2 weeks off after a fairly miserable World Cup for Brazil

Yeah a month sounds about right. The last thing Paulinho needs is a pre-season right now. He would be better suited to go on vacay and focus on tapering his training down to the point of taking walks on the beach just to help his body recover from the amount of games he's played. And even after that i would slowly increase his exercise intensity just so he doesn't burn out by the time we get Jan/Feb.

 

[tototoner]

Worked with and seen Verheijen up close he has some pretty amazing theories but also correct ones he reshaped the welsh teams single handedly made players realise how unprofessional it was.

Would love to have him at spurs.

He also can tell you when and why players get injured amazingly neither he also worked closely with bale to get the beast we have now

he speaks a lot of sense, always interesting read what he says

his comments about Hodgson today are very damning

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/14/wales-raymond-verheijen-roy-hodgson-dinosaur

“Embarrassing to see dinosaur Hodgson questioning the fitness regime of the forward-thinking manager Brendan Rodgers. Roy Hodgson’s incompetence must be frustrating for educated managers like Brendan Rodgers who travelled the world.”

Verheijen, went into precise details as to why Sterling should be treated differently. “Firstly, 19-year old players do not have a fully matured body yet so for them the game demands are higher & will develop much more fatigue,” wrote the Dutchman, who still acts as consultant for several national football associations and clubs.
“Young players who develop more fatigue during the game need longer time to get rid of this fatigue otherwise they accumulate fatigue in body.
“Secondly, Sterling is not only a young but also an explosive player. They have many fast muscle fibres compared to less explosive players.
“Fast muscle fibres recover slower compared to slow muscle fibres because less blood & oxygen is running through these fast muscle fibres.
“If explosive players do not get extra recovery time & are treated in the same way as other players, they accumulate fatigue in their body.
“Accumulation of fatigue due to insufficient recovery makes the nervous system slower. The signal from brain to muscles travel slower
“If the signal from the brain arrives later in the muscles this means the brain has less control over body during explosive football actions.
“So there’s much evidence that insufficient recovery, accumulation of fatigue & slower nervous system are dramatically increasing injury risk.”

 

[Amo]

I'm sorry, but every time I see the name Wayne Diesel, I think of Vin Diesel.

No need to apologise.