Tottenham sign Ben Davies

[thinktank]

Yeah, but her wages insurance would be ridiculous

 

[Nine while nine]

My 90-yr old diabetic Granny w/ a quadruple bypass & CHF (g*d bless her) would've been the best LB at our club this past season.

Agreed. I much prefer a left back with Chronic Heart Failure than one who induces it.

 

[samsonlevi]

good player, but maybe we should aim higher? but if nothing else is available (im sure there is somewhere) he will be better than Rose

 

[guy]

Certainly not glowing reports there from the swans fans, hmmm

 

[Gbspurs]

Certainly not glowing reports there from the swans fans, hmmm

Not exactly bad reports either. If we could describe Rose, Naughton or even Walker as a "Steady Eddie" or "never had a bad game" we would be sorted.

I have always found a steady full back to be very useful, don't need to be a barnstorming wing back, just don't do anything stupid, offer support and give the ball to the more technical players. This is why Gary Neville was so good.

 

[guy]

Not exactly bad reports either. If we could describe Rose, Naughton or even Walker as a "Steady Eddie" or "never had a bad game" we would be sorted.

I have always found a steady full back to be very useful, don't need to be a barnstorming wing back, just don't do anything stupid, offer support and give the ball to the more technical players. This is why Gary Neville was so good.

And Sir Kyle Naughton

 

[HobbitSpur]

I like the part "Danny Rose is currently the club’s first-choice left-back, but struggled with injury last season."

I think he struggled with being shit rather than with injuries!!!

 

[Spurs Lodge Kittens]

What about that Ipswich left back people were going on about recently?! I don't know about anyone else but I'd feel really uncomfortable spending more than 10m on a left back. Yes it's an important position but it's not a make or break position that requires huge sums spent on.

 

[Larryjanta]

What about that Ipswich left back people were going on about recently?! I don't know about anyone else but I'd feel really uncomfortable spending more than 10m on a left back. Yes it's an important position but it's not a make or break position that requires huge sums spent on.

COmpletely disagree - full back is becoming one of the most important positions on the pitch. As we move away from classic wingers in 4-4-2 formations, the overlapping full back is crucial to provide width. It's been a position in evolution and, pretty much since Cafu and Carlos were tearing it up for Brazil, they've become the blueprint going forward.

It's even more crucial for Poch's teams as full back is pretty much the only position that puts crosses into the box

 

[LukeBB]

good player, but maybe we should aim higher? but if nothing else is available (im sure there is somewhere) he will be better than Rose

See, for me, it's performances like that, I know it's only one performance and it's against Napoli, but that with the mixed opinion of Swans fans that I just think, don't waste £10 million on the guy, aim for at least half that or just keep Benoit Assou Ekotto. We've seen a lot of the worst of most of our players, mainly Rose, but we haven't seen the best of him yet in my opinion. Almost every player next season, bar Lloris, Eriksen and Ade, is going to be better next season so IMO just give Rose, BAE and Fryers another chance before we whack £10 million on a new signing which will just depress us if it doesn't work out.

 

[bceej]

What about that Ipswich left back people were going on about recently?! I don't know about anyone else but I'd feel really uncomfortable spending more than 10m on a left back. Yes it's an important position but it's not a make or break position that requires huge sums spent on.

Aaron Cresswell? Don't know too much about, but has goals and assists in him, think he's 24 at the moment. May well be time to step up.

 

[DaSpurs]

COmpletely disagree - full back is becoming one of the most important positions on the pitch. As we move away from classic wingers in 4-4-2 formations, the overlapping full back is crucial to provide width. It's been a position in evolution and, pretty much since Cafu and Carlos were tearing it up for Brazil, they've become the blueprint going forward.

It's even more crucial for Poch's teams as full back is pretty much the only position that puts crosses into the box

Couple things here though the majority of your idea is right:

1 - While left back is indeed very important in the modern game due to its sheer rarity of quality player well-rounded in both attack and defense, the question is whether spending that kind of money is truly worth it. As we've seen from this past summer, money does not necessarily correlate with immediate suitability to a given team scenario, so I do believe he's right to at least ask.

2 - Left back was used so vitally in Saints' system due to the quality of the individual, not necessarily because it prioritized the position itself from the beginning. As of now, there is nothing to suggest Poch wouldn't instead use Walker more in Shaw'a role due to his experience and athleticism, albeit from the right.

 

[Larryjanta]

Couple things here though the majority of your idea is right:

1 - While left back is indeed very important in the modern game due to its sheer rarity of quality player well-rounded in both attack and defense, the question is whether spending that kind of money is truly worth it. As we've seen from this past summer, money does not necessarily correlate with immediate suitability to a given team scenario, so I do believe he's right to at least ask.

2 - Left back was used so vitally in Saints' system due to the quality of the individual, not necessarily because it prioritized the position itself from the beginning. As of now, there is nothing to suggest Poch wouldn't instead use Walker more in Shaw'a role due to his experience and athleticism, albeit from the right.

Yep, I agree with both your points. If a player is available who can fit into the system though, I think it's worth it (and I really like Davies)

 

[DaSpurs]

Yep, I agree with both your points. If a player is available who can fit into the system though, I think it's worth it (and I really like Davies)

Fair enough, if you believe Davies is suitable to Poch's system than I have no argument against a statement that he would be worth it. I simply take issue with people believing that us buying the best, most expensive left back we can realistically get our hands would be a solution to our problems. While I conversely think some people have taken it far too overboard in declaring that we should forego foreign players altogether because of last summer, I think there is a very healthy middle ground in which careful evaluation of whether or not a given player will work for a system be they from Enfield or Timbuktu is the best course of action. And if you believe Davies is such a player, I see no problem in you believing the club should pay what he's worth.

 

[Lufti]

Would take him for a couple of mil + Sigurdsson, if our better options aren't availabe

 

[felmani26]

Decent young player and for the right price could be steal although Shaw would (excuse the pun) surely be top of our wanted list regardless of how feasible it would be.

 

[DaSpurs]

Would take him for a couple of mil + Sigurdsson, if our better options aren't availabe

I'd be quite pleased with such a deal, and judging from the talk from their own fans so seemingly would they.

Decent young player and for the right price could be steal although Shaw would (excuse the pun) surely be top of our wanted list regardless of how feasible it would be.

I very much hope we've moved on from Shaw given the prices being touted and begun to assess other options. No point in the club wasting time in a WC summer trying to express interest in such a situation.

 

[spurs9]

Couple things here though the majority of your idea is right:

1 - While left back is indeed very important in the modern game due to its sheer rarity of quality player well-rounded in both attack and defense, the question is whether spending that kind of money is truly worth it. As we've seen from this past summer, money does not necessarily correlate with immediate suitability to a given team scenario, so I do believe he's right to at least ask.

2 - Left back was used so vitally in Saints' system due to the quality of the individual, not necessarily because it prioritized the position itself from the beginning. As of now, there is nothing to suggest Poch wouldn't instead use Walker more in Shaw'a role due to his experience and athleticism, albeit from the right.

I don't think Shaw (or LB) was more vital than RB in Poch's system, I think both full backs positions were of equal importance. If you look at their attacking stats, they are very comparable, but Clyne was more productive.
Also, compare the 2 Southampton players and our two to Rodriquez of Wolfsburg (I still think we can get him). I know it is a different league, but he looks exactly what we need.

Shaw - P 35, A 1, KPPG 1, PPG 40.1, 79%, SC 29, AC 141.
Clyne - P 20(5), A 4, KPPG 1.1, PPG 38.7, 81.5%, SC 15, AC 61.

Walker - P 26, A 2, KPPG 1.2, PPG 53.7, 82.2%, SC 18, AC 89.
Rose - P 22, A 2, KPPG 0.7, PPG 41.3, 78.9%, SC 15, AC 86.

Ben Davies - P 32, A 1, KPPG 0.9, PPG 48.6, 84.3%, SC 20, AC 104.

Rodriquez - P 34, A 9, KPPG 2.3, PPG 45.7, 80.5%, SC 72, AC 185.

P- Played, A - Assists, KPPG - Key Passes Per Game, PPG - Passes Per Game, % - % of successful passes, SC - Successful Crosses, AC - Attempted crosses.

 

[DaSpurs]

I don't think Shaw (or LB) was more vital than RB in Poch's system, I think both full backs positions were of equal importance. If you look at their attacking stats, they are very comparable, but Clyne was more productive.
Also, compare the 2 Southampton players and our two to Rodriquez of Wolfsburg (I still think we can get him). I know it is a different league, but he looks exactly what we need.

Shaw - P 35, A 1, KPPG 1, PPG 40.1, 79%, SC 29, AC 141.
Clyne - P 20(5), A 4, KPPG 1.1, PPG 38.7, 81.5%, SC 15, AC 61.

Walker - P 26, A 2, KPPG 1.2, PPG 53.7, 82.2%, SC 18, AC 89.
Rose - P 22, A 2, KPPG 0.7, PPG 41.3, 78.9%, SC 15, AC 86.

Ben Davies - P 32, A 1, KPPG 0.9, PPG 48.6, 84.3%, SC 20, AC 104.

Rodriquez - P 34, A 9, KPPG 2.3, PPG 45.7, 80.5%, SC 72, AC 185.

P- Played, A - Assists, KPPG - Key Passes Per Game, PPG - Passes Per Game, % - % of successful passes, SC - Successful Crosses, AC - Attempted crosses.

It seems from this you may be rating the players on a head-to-head basis on efficiency, and in that regard I mathematically cannot disagree with you. The numbers you highlight speak for themselves. "Vital" it seems, you may reasonably point out, was a poor word choice. However, given the difference in the amount of appearances, and the amount of times the ball went through Shaw in positions to cross, is it not reasonable to suggest he was more involved or integral in their play, regardless of success? After all, we're talking about a player who may very well go for a new world record fee for a fullback, vs their right backs that several have mentioned here as coming to compete with our own Walker.

The point nonetheless, is that we can't be certain our lineup will be arranged exactly as Poch's. People often discuss the "Rodriguez role" as the winger-forward position almost parallel with the striker, and discuss our left winger situation including transfer targets within it, but who are we to say Poch would not not flip the field if he even uses such a role? This would be all the more viable if the primarily right-sided CM is one with more pace, such as Holtby per se, who could use his hold-up play to afford a higher-set Walker or the winger more time to get back.

This last bit btw, would segue into our discussion in the Konoplyanka thread.

 

[spurs9]

It seems from this you may be rating the players on a head-to-head basis on efficiency, and in that regard I mathematically cannot disagree with you. The numbers you highlight speak for themselves. "Vital" it seems, you may reasonably point out, was a poor word choice. However, given the difference in the amount of appearances, and the amount of times the ball went through Shaw in positions to cross, is it not reasonable to suggest he was more involved or integral in their play, regardless of success? After all, we're talking about a player who may very well go for a new world record fee for a fullback, vs their right backs that several have mentioned here as coming to compete with our own Walker.

The point nonetheless, is that we can't be certain our lineup will be arranged exactly as Poch's. People often discuss the "Rodriguez role" as the winger-forward position almost parallel with the striker, and discuss our left winger situation including transfer targets within it, but who are we to say Poch would not not flip the field if he even uses such a role? This would be all the more viable if the primarily right-sided CM is one with more pace, such as Holtby per se, who could use his hold-up play to afford a higher-set Walker or the winger more time to get back.

This last bit btw, would segue into our discussion in the Konoplyanka thread.

I think the reason Shaw played more than Clyne was more to do with the emergence of Chambers, whilst Shaw has no competition for LB. Just to support my observations more, Chambers actually played more passes per game than Clyne but less than Shaw (the difference between Clyne & Shaw was marginal anyway) and Chambers actually crossed as much as if not more than Shaw per game (Chambers stats compared to Shaw below). I think this shows that both players have the ball a similar amount of times.

In regards to Shaw becoming a world record signing, where as the Southampton RB's would only be back up to Walker, Man Utd will be paying for Shaw's potential, not his current ability. Also, we are weak at LB. If we had a player of Walker's ability at LB, I think we would be talking about Shaw as challenging for LB not straight 1st choice and I also think if we only had 1 RB of the same ability of Rose, we could be talking about Clyne or Chambers for the 1st team.

You are right when you say we don't know if Poch will play someone in the "Rodriguez" role and if he does, he could indeed flip the sides. I do, however, think that having a player wide with pace than tried to run behind the defence would help us a lot, considering how much possession Poch like to have and the issues AVB had in creating chances.

edit: forgot to include stats


Shaw - P35, A 1, KPPG 1, PPG 40.1, 79%, SC29, AC141.
Chambers - P 18(4), A0, KPPG 0.5, PPG 39.1, 79.4%, SC 18, AC 87.