Yids chants

[AngerManagement]

Surely there is a radical difference between 'Yid' and 'Jew' - I would argue that a chant of Jew Army (or Jewish Army) could be taken as offensive or racial, but 'Yid Army' is as much a definition of language as of racial identity. I strongly believe there is a serious risk of over reacting here, and by extension, a possibility that Tafs, Micks, Jocks, Geordies etc become unacceptable. What then for the Scum, the Bindippers and the Chavs?

I'd say the term Jew army would be seen as less offensive in the same way Black Army would be seen as less offensive than "nigga army" and Indian or Pakistani army would be seen as less offensive than "paki army"

The whole point surely is that Yid was initially used as an offensive dehumanising term for Jewish/Yiddish people in the same way Nigger was designed to be offensive to black people and the question is more is it ok for people not of that ethic group to use the term for themselves now because they feel it is being used in a positive/supportive/empowering fashion.

As for over reaction, well yes there is a massive risk of that and excessive political correctness and I said before that I don't know many (any) Jewish people to know just how offensive the term Yid or Yiddo are considered nor do I know the history of the word well enough to really make an informed decision on whether or not I personally feel the use of it by Spurs fans is acceptable.(and I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I hadn't chanted Yid army Yid's and Yiddos a thousand times at games over the years)

What I was saying was the argument that black people call themselves nigga to empower the word from nigger proves it is ok for Spurs fans to use a term against another creed of people in an empowering way is not a valid argument.

 

[specspurs]

There is actually no difference between the words 'Yid' and 'Jew'.
Jew is just the English translation of the word Yid,which comes from the Eastern European language Yiddish which both my Father and Mother spoke fluently.

 

[AngerManagement]

There is actually no difference between the words 'Yid' and 'Jew'.
Jew is just the English translation of the word Yid,which comes from the Eastern European language Yiddish which both my Father and Father spoke fluently.

If that is accurate and the term Yid was not originally offensive then it begs the question why this is even an issue in the first place

You'd be getting in to John Terry territory where a non offensive word would need to be accompanied by an offensive word to make it racist (as terry did to anton) so seeing as the word Army is not as far as I know offensive I cannot understand why an issue would be made of this

If what you say is correct which I don't know but will take your word for

 

[specspurs]

If that is accurate and the term Yid was not originally offensive then it begs the question why this is even an issue in the first place

You'd be getting in to John Terry territory where a non offensive word would need to be accompanied by an offensive word to make it racist (as terry did to anton) so seeing as the word Army is not as far as I know offensive I cannot understand why an issue would be made of this

If what you say is correct which I don't know but will take your word for

I agree completely with what you say. I personally would only be offended by something like ******* Yid rather than the word Yid itself. This why the opposition to the word Yid baffles me,it simply means Jew and if you are one,as I am,how can this be offensive?

 

[AngerManagement]

I agree completely with what you say. I personally would only be offended by something like ******* Yid rather than the word Yid itself. This why the opposition to the word Yid baffles me,it simply means Jew and if you are one,as I am,how can this be offensive?

I suppose the only (potential) argument is that people starting using it in an offensive fashion at some point and changed the meaning in some way to a negative

Not that I agree this is justification to outlaw the word and allow the racist to assume control of said word if as you say it is simply a direct translation for Jew/Jewish and not in its own right offensive.

The only example I can think of to compare is the word GAY, originally meaning happy (or something like that) the homosexual movement in San Francisco adopted the word to describe themselves (as an acronym meaning Good As You) yet now the term is frequently used as a negative and I guess if a group of fans were to be chanting Gay Army it would be seen as unacceptable?

I dunno if that really relates but its the only thing I could think of with very little thought as I really should be doing a cardio respirtory assignment

 

[Mattspur]

There is actually no difference between the words 'Yid' and 'Jew'.
Jew is just the English translation of the word Yid,which comes from the Eastern European language Yiddish which both my Father and Mother spoke fluently.

The dictionary is not your friend.

 

[specspurs]

The dictionary is not your friend.

Don't know what dictionary you're using but as I said,both my parents spoke Yiddish so I think I might know what I'm talking about.
If the dictionary says something else in addition to this I don't know but I was always brought up to understand that Yid=Jew.

 

[specspurs]

Look,I'm not going to negative rep you again (like you have to me twice) but I do know what I am talking about. If you don't believe me,perhaps you ought to look up Leo Rosten's "The Joys Of Yiddish" to find out. Also,it's interesting that you are able to call my parents liars without having met them and the fact they spoke Yiddish from birth.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,but to me Yid means Jew,what it means to you is up to you.

 

[Mattspur]

Either way, what he word originally meant makes no difference because it has different connotations when spoken in Yiddish and when spoken in English.

I went to a school where I was one of a few Jewish kids. I was regularly called a "fucking yid". This was not because I supported Spurs, but the reason these kids knew that he word yid was a derogatory term for a Jew was because they'd learnt it through the use of the word in the spurs context.

Angermanagement explained it perfectly.

 

[specspurs]

Either way, what he word originally meant makes no difference because it has different connotations when spoken in Yiddish and when spoken in English.

I went to a school where I was one of a few Jewish kids. I was regularly called a "fucking yid". This was not because I supported Spurs, but the reason these kids knew that he word yid was a derogatory term for a Jew was because they'd learnt it through the use of the word in the spurs context.

Angermanagement explained it perfectly.

Indeed,and as I previously posted,I completely agree with his post too.
I have to say,I originally come from Australia and supported a team that was entirely run and supported by Jews. I had to learn the word Jew in Greek,Italian and Serbo-Croat to know if I was being abused or not. And again,just like you,its what comes before these words that is the problem.I copped heaps of abuse at the football (or soccer in Australian terms) but little at school because about 20% or more of my school happened to be Jewish. This is a bit of a similar situation with the word Yid.Possibly it means something slightly different to English Jews than those of us who are the descendants of Holocaust survivors straight out of Eastern Europe.

 

[sweyid]

Look,I'm not going to negative rep you again (like you have to me twice) but I do know what I am talking about. If you don't believe me,perhaps you ought to look up Leo Rosten's "The Joys Of Yiddish" to find out. Also,it's interesting that you are able to call my parents liars without having met them and the fact they spoke Yiddish from birth.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,but to me Yid means Jew,what it means to you is up to you.

I have to back you up here. The language Yiddish means jewish (as in a language, just like english, swedish, finnish etc) and yid simply means jew.

Edit: if I'm not mistaken yid is a male jew, yidishke is a female and yidl is for kids.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Another Jew to add a view. The term Yid is factually simply Jew in Yiddish, HOWEVER, when used by anyone other than a Jew who speaks Yiddish it is used as a pejorative term. It was for this exact reason that Spurs fans began to sing it as a comeback to the true anti-Semites of Chelsea, West Ham et al.

Why on earth black lawyers feel this is their cause I have no clue, the Jewish community is represented by the Board of Deputies and if they aren't raising the issue, and they aren't, then these black lawyers should go and reproduce with themselves !

 

[AngerManagement]

Another Jew to add a view. The term Yid is factually simply Jew in Yiddish, HOWEVER, when used by anyone other than a Jew who speaks Yiddish it is used as a pejorative term. It was for this exact reason that Spurs fans began to sing it as a comeback to the true anti-Semites of Chelsea, West Ham et al.

Why on earth black lawyers feel this is their cause I have no clue, the Jewish community is represented by the Board of Deputies and if they aren't raising the issue, and they aren't, then these black lawyers should go and reproduce with themselves !

It smacks of bandwaggon jumping and publicity hunting to me

 

[Wirral Spurs]

I'm not Jewish but I absolutely defend our right to call ourselves what we want. I actually think it is empowering and quite positive.
These idiots really need to put more effort into really understanding what is racist and what isn't.

 

[specspurs]

Another Jew to add a view. The term Yid is factually simply Jew in Yiddish, HOWEVER, when used by anyone other than a Jew who speaks Yiddish it is used as a pejorative term. It was for this exact reason that Spurs fans began to sing it as a comeback to the true anti-Semites of Chelsea, West Ham et al.

Why on earth black lawyers feel this is their cause I have no clue, the Jewish community is represented by the Board of Deputies and if they aren't raising the issue, and they aren't, then these black lawyers should go and reproduce with themselves !

I would agree with everything you say, but if the word Yid doesn't offend me and hopefully you and if non-Jewish Spurs supporters are prepared to chant "Yiddo" in response to the anti-Semites you mention,surely we as Jewish Spurs supporters should be proud and grateful that our fellow supporters are prepared to rebuff the racists in this way.
As this is the case I cannot understand what the Black Lawyers are on about other than publicity seeking as Anger Management says.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I would agree with everything you say, but if the word Yid doesn't offend me and hopefully you and if non-Jewish Spurs supporters are prepared to chat "Yiddo" in response to the anti-Semites you mention,surely we as Jewish Spurs supporters should be proud and grateful that our fellow supporters are prepared to rebuff the racists in this way.
As this is the case I cannot understand what the Black Lawyers are on about other than publicity seeking as Anger Management says.

Totally agree. This all started with David Baddiel doing his video on the "Y word". I'd suggest this is because he can't reconcile being a Jew and supporting a club where his fellow fans glorify Hitler by hissing and singing about Auschwitz. Instead of reaching the obvious conclusion that you can't be Jewish and a Chelsea fan he has turned on Spurs' fans use of the word. That just makes him a loathesome individual.

As for the black lawyers shouldn't they be focussed on Chelsea with their racist club captain and monkey imitating fans. Isn't this more pertinent to their affiliation ?

 

[JollyHappy]

White jewish lawyer here about to e mail the SBL to put my point of view that I am a member of the Yid Army and proud to be. I wonder what Defoe makes of his song?

 

[Mattspur]

I'm not Jewish but I absolutely defend our right to call ourselves what we want.

So what you're saying is that you're not part of an ethnic group but you defend the right to publicly use words which are considered derogatory to that group when used by a someone outside of that group? Just so I'm clear.

 

[bigturnip]

Again for this, race/religion thing, it's still carries the same connotations whether you'll taking about a race or a religion.

Yes, if used in a derogatory fashion they have the same connotation, but I have no problem with people making fun of a person's religion as it is a choice they made, I do have a problem with people making fun of a person's race as it was how they were born.

Having said that it is beside the point as we don't use it in a derogatory fashion.

 

[Mattspur]

Totally agree. This all started with David Baddiel doing his video on the "Y word". I'd suggest this is because he can't reconcile being a Jew and supporting a club where his fellow fans glorify Hitler by hissing and singing about Auschwitz. Instead of reaching the obvious conclusion that you can't be Jewish and a Chelsea fan he has turned on Spurs' fans use of the word. That just makes him a loathesome individual

This all started long before David Baddiel made that video.

These incidents of hissing and what not are so far and few between nowadays that I can honestly say that if we did not call our selves yids, neither would anyone else.