Jose Mourinho

[rez9000]

To do what you ask, he'd have to be in the changing room with a video camera during the team talk. That's the epitome of absurdity.

Hence why anyone suggesting that they know what Mourinho did at half-time and therefore stating that what happened in the second half is solely down to him is a false assertion.

 

[Metalhead]

To do what you ask, he'd have to be in the changing room with a video camera during the team talk. That's the epitome of absurdity.

I get his point though. Everyone on here has an opinion but at the end of the day we really don't know for sure what gets said so it really is just opinion.

 

[sausage]

The media love it because its largely deserved - and yes yesterday not replacing N;dombele with Dele had a direct affect on the side not winning the game.

That's just spurious, though. Well, that's generous, as it's probably closer to the ridiculous. To expand on that, how did it? NDombele would have had nothing to do with the goal and hadn't been involved in any direct playmaking efforts since early in the first half. A direct effect?

What was the direct effect?

 

[ralphs bald spot]

That's just spurious, though. Well, that's generous, as it's probably closer to the ridiculous. To expand on that, how did it? NDombele would have had nothing to do with the goal and hadn't been involved in any direct playmaking efforts since early in the first half. A direct effect?

What was the direct effect?

by taking off the only attacking outlet we had and replacing him with Sissoko what did he think would happen - if he is going to take off Ndombele then if he wants any semblance of attacking play he has to bring on Dele - instead we just sat we had no outlet Sissoko isn't going to give you that. Making a positve change trying to score a second, we might have had some control and some attacking outlets because Dele gives you that. As a direct result of the megativity of the manager they were able to dominate even more as we had even less control than earlier thats how it directly effected the game

Mourinho deserves the criticsm and I stand by it - making a defensive substition invited the pressure and we were lucky not to lose the game. I don't think he has been all bad but yesterday was awful and his treatment of Dele is having a detrimental effect on the side

 

[sausage]

by taking off the only attacking outlet we had and replacing him with Sissoko what did he think would happen - if he is going to take off Ndombele then if he wants any semblance of attacking play he has to bring on Dele - instead we just sat we had no outlet Sissoko isn't going to give you that. Making a positve change trying to score a second, we might have had some control and some attacking outlets because Dele gives you that. As a direct result of the megativity of the manager they were able to dominate even more as we had even less control than earlier thats how it directly effected the game

Mourinho deserves the criticsm and I stand by it - making a defensive substition invited the pressure and we were lucky not to lose the game. I don't think he has been all bad but yesterday was awful and his treatment of Dele is having a detrimental effect on the side

That isn't a 'direct' result - it's as indirect as you get. The direct result of the goal was the corner and, yet again, poor marking in the box. NDombele is probably the last player you'd see jostling to defend a corner.

Bergwijn came on for Reguillon 10 or so mins before that substitution, which was a winger for a wing back, so it's not a consistent argument.

 

[EQP]

That isn't a 'direct' result - it's as indirect as you get. The direct result of the goal was the corner and, yet again, poor marking in the box. NDombele is probably the last player you'd see jostling to defend a corner.

Bergwijn came on for Reguillon 10 or so mins before that substitution, which was a winger for a wing back, so it's not a consistent argument.

Not sure how to access heat maps but It looked like Stevie was playing as an auxiliary full back. Though he is a winger by trade his instructions looked to be based on providing support for Davies.

 

[EQP]

The problem is it's not sustainable playing this way over the long term.

I love that he made us tougher to beat but this mindset of sitting on what we have, regardless of the opposition, is just not going to cut it.

For me if Jose doesn't make us more ambitious against similar or lesser opposition it will inevitably end badly for him/us.

Now I hope he can adjust because there are some good things he's done.

Even the best managers can see when they go wrong, and they change, evolve and grow as managers.

It's not an admission that you're wrong, its just adapting to what needs to change.

If he can't see that now then there's a problem.

We've the perfect two home games coming up.

I'm not interested in two scrappy 1 nil wins here, I want to see evidence that Mourinho is prepared to adjust his tactics dependent on the opposition.

That's the test now for longer term success.

Well said. With things being so tight between 2nd and 9th, goal difference will be very important. We need to put teams to the sword when we can.

 

[stormfly]

Every time I give up hope, a load of results go our way again and it drags me back in! Damn you hope!

 

[ajspurs]

Every time I give up hope, a load of results go our way again and it drags me back in! Damn you hope!

I won't have hope until we improve to be honest, the other games don't feel greatly significant to me with how we're currently playing.

The Fulham game is massive in that it's not the most dangerous team but if it's a convincing win with multiple goals and attacking play it would mean so much. To me there would be no 'but it's only Fulham' because I think anyone can really trouble us at the moment with the way that we concede control and possession of matches.

In saying that I can really see Fulham troubling us if we play in the same vein.

 

[Vincent30]

That isn't a 'direct' result - it's as indirect as you get. The direct result of the goal was the corner and, yet again, poor marking in the box. NDombele is probably the last player you'd see jostling to defend a corner.

Bergwijn came on for Reguillon 10 or so mins before that substitution, which was a winger for a wing back, so it's not a consistent argument.

Whilst this is true, the 10 minutes before Ndombele was subbed he really started to turn it on (looking the best player on the pitch in the second half) and with Wolves chasing the game, he was the perfect player to keep on and actually provide some link to Kane/Son and provide some fear for them. As soon as he was withdrawn it turned into attack vs defence, a direct result of the sub and a shocking call.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

That isn't a 'direct' result - it's as indirect as you get. The direct result of the goal was the corner and, yet again, poor marking in the box. NDombele is probably the last player you'd see jostling to defend a corner.

Bergwijn came on for Reguillon 10 or so mins before that substitution, which was a winger for a wing back, so it's not a consistent argument.

Call it what you want but by defending for 90 minutes that sets the side up to eventually give away a goal - by constanstly conceding pocession not offering no threat going forward what is he asking for - Bergwin is employed as an auxilary fall back because he is scared of Traore - the manager made poor decisions (which sums him up) , the football is turgid uninspiring and we got what we deserved and could quite easily have lost the game.

 

[wadewill]

This isn’t his second season, just so everyone knows. Next season is ?

 

[Marcus_spur]

I have the impression (and I could be wrong here) that modern football managers rarely change their tactical or philosophical approach, once they've set up their system. And they usually get sacked because of it.

But it's an interesting question; how many managers completely overhaul their game plan if it's not working? I can't think of any Spurs managers of the last 20 years who have done that.

Sherwood did a few times, but... yeah...

 

[Shadydan]

This is a major point, At Madrid and Inter he also had big time players.

The game has changed now, especially in England.
In the premier league every team has money and players that can hurt you at any time.

At Chelsea the 1st time he had players that had them head and shoulders above 95% of the teams.

Whilst that's true Atletico must be an anomaly, they'd finish pretty high up in our league if they were in the Prem, they proved their style is pretty effective against Liverpool in the CL last season.

 

[SpursSince1980]

There's what you know, and what you don't know for sure. One is fact, the other is supposition. When it comes to understanding why the team is currently struggling, and basing that 100% on the tactical application of the coach, that leaves room for many suppositions and assumptions. IE: Is he telling them to sit so deep? Is he asking them to make childish mistakes every game? Does he train the team to only sit in a shell? Is he instructing individuals to not run and take less risks?
These are all assumptions and suppositions.
Let's apply Occam's Razor theory...
Facts are based on what we can all agree is subjective reality.
1. A lot of our attacking players look sloppy and tired.
2. Almost all of our players in midfield and attack make mistakes. Lots of mistakes, all game long.
3. Our defense, consistently turns the ball back over to the other team, due to their inability to find an open player, or make a pass.

Those are facts. Could the tactics have an impact on the above? Sure. Could training? Sure? Could playing too many games? Probably. But laying the above issues all on Jose, and that he is responsible for them playing this way, when facts again tell us something different (IE: same players, same problems with Poch), then perhaps the truth is somewhere closer to us having tired players who lack focus at times and do not have a killer mentality. I wish Jose could change that. I really do. If you think another coach could take this same group and turn them into league leaders, blowing away other teams, playing fast-paced, stylish football... fine. Who would that coach be?

 

[dtxspurs]

There's what you know, and what you don't know for sure. One is fact, the other is supposition. When it comes to understanding why the team is currently struggling, and basing that 100% on the tactical application of the coach, that leaves room for many suppositions and assumptions. IE: Is he telling them to sit so deep? Is he asking them to make childish mistakes every game? Does he train the team to only sit in a shell? Is he instructing individuals to not run and take less risks?

The most clear way of looking at this, in my opinion, is the goals scored by player other than Kane & Son. Ndombele is our third leading scorer in the premier league with 2 goals. Lucas Moura has scored multiple hat tricks for us, I don't particularly rate him but he can't sniff the net over the last year under Mourinho. Bergwijn was racking up goals and assists in Holland, can't get anywhere near the goal. Lo Celso, 9 league goals in La Liga, has 1 under Mourinho. If you can't see that we are setting up these players in a poor manner to setup & score goals I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[SpursSince1980]

The most clear way of looking at this, in my opinion, is the goals scored by player other than Kane & Son. Ndombele is our third leading scorer in the premier league with 2 goals. Lucas Moura has scored multiple hat tricks for us, I don't particularly rate him but he can't sniff the net over the last year under Mourinho. Bergwijn was racking up goals and assists in Holland, can't get anywhere near the goal. Lo Celso, 9 league goals in La Liga, has 1 under Mourinho. If you can't see that we are setting up these players in a poor manner to setup & score goals I don't know what else to tell you.

You don't and shouldn't. Because you see one thing, and I see the other. And never shall the twain meet. Simple as that.

 

[dtxspurs]

You don't and shouldn't. Because you see one thing, and I see the other. And never shall the twain meet. Simple as that.

So you geniunely think that all of the sudden Lucas, Bergwijn, Bale, Lo Celso, Lamela, & Dele, none of them are capable of scoring more than a single goal through 15 games? All of them at the same time and that isn't a reflection on the manager?

 

[Jamturk]

Whenever I see Mourinho or Sacramento on the sideline I never see them motioning for the defence to push up, it's always ushering players back into our half and for them to press from there.

This leads to us not being able to get out effectively enough to slow down the oppositions kitchen sink.

I maintain that the players are being asked to cover too much ground in the match and therefore being gassed by the 70-80 minute mark.

 

[SpursSince1980]

So you geniunely think that all of the sudden Lucas, Bergwijn, Bale, Lo Celso, Lamela, & Dele, none of them are capable of scoring more than a single goal through 15 games? All of them at the same time and that isn't a reflection on the manager?

As I said, no point in debate. Fruitless, as we see different things. And that is okay. I don’t need to be persuaded one way and nor do you, as you are seeking confirmation. All we can mutually agree with is that the team is struggling in attack. And we both want a solution, like all Spurs fans. If in your mind, we are suffering because of the manager and how we play, so be it. I see it as a continuation of much of the same turgidness we witnessed over Poch's last ten months.

Should the manager have a rethink? Of course. That’s his job. He doesn’t want to lose and doesn’t set out with a strategy to play poorly. No manager does. Some things aren’t clicking. He and the players need to unfuck the situation they are in. All of them. Collectively.