Player Ratings v WBA

[SteveH]

Bring on the next game!

Friedel 5 - I think a proper Premier League keeper should have done better in the situations leading up to Albions goal.

BAE 8 - Scored what I thought would be the winner, saved a goal off the line for us, and had one or two "oh shit" moments. All in all though a very good game. Our MOM in my opinion

Vertonghen 6 - Not a very good debut. Great block on Lukakus shot, though he really shouldn't have been thrown around by an 18 year old like that in the first place. Will probably improve though.

Gallas 6 - Good at organizing a defence, but had some scary moments with Lukaku.

Walker 7 - I think Walker was very good tonight. At one point had an excellent technique pass forward to Lennon. Not the best going forward, though not from lack of trying. Did well defensively though.

Sandro 7 - Couple of excellent interceptions, one or two misplaced passes but overall very good. Will be extremely important this season.

Livermore 6 - He did OK, but using Livermore paired with Sandro makes the ball move extremely slowly going forward at times. No obvious mistakes, but he's definitely not what we need.

Lennon 5 - Not a threat today. Some good involvement, but mostly quiet.

Bale 6 - Looked threatening in the first half, probably because of some excellent passes from Van der Vaart. Went completely missing in the second half.

VDV 7 - The only creative force for us going forward. Some excellent passes today, though his deadballs weren't exactly great. Makes no sense keeping Defoe on and subbing VDV if the latter isn't injured

Defoe 4 - He huffed and puffed, but in the end the house still stood. Great as an impact sub, not so great when starting.

Adebayor, Sigurdsson and Jenas didn't really set the world on fire either. If I didn't see Jenas subbed on I wouldn't have known he was there.

Pretty much says it all.


Only change is I'd give Defoe a 6! He never stopped running

 

[jamesc0le]

i wouldnt be against free signing joe cole on a one year contract as an option in the deep cm positions.. short term modric solution?
or try rafa there?

 

[StartingPrice]

i wouldnt be against free signing joe cole on a one year contract as an option in the deep cm positions.. short term modric solution?
or try rafa there?

'Arry...'Arry RatKnip...is that you?

 

[parklane1]

Had a massive row with some dickhead at the ground who booed when Jenas came on, told him he was a dickhead and should be ashamed of himself booing a player in a Spurs shirt.

Do not think the brain dead moron new what i was even on about.

 

[danielneeds]

They have similar problems to me in front of goal. Suarez for all his busyness, skill and hard work isn't composed enough to be a big goalscorer and they don't have many others who will contribute regularly. Borini will get a few but not loads, maybe Gerrard too if he stays fit.

Arsenal look the same without Van Pervert who we know carried them goal wise last season. Cazorla's class, Walnut will get some but people like Gervinho get to the edge of the box and then go to pieces. Podolski and Giroud have to step up big time unless they sign another striker - they need to move some on though for this to happen. I don't think they will and will struggle unless the strikers pull it out of the bag.

It's tantilising for us this season as we can finish above both with the right signings. A back up for Ade and a ball playing midfielder and we should be home and hosed.

Unless Levy pulls off a miracle this week, I don't think we will finish above Everton. They have started like a train, and I think they will go from strength to strength.

 

[StartingPrice]

Unless Levy pulls off a miracle this week, I don't think we will finish above Everton. They have started like a train, and I think they will go from strength to strength.

I believe Levy will get us some serious additions - primarily because he must, and it is inconceivible that he won't on grounds of pure logic.

Everton are looking like serious contenders this time around, and may displace Newcastle. If we get those few additions and play to our abilities I would expect us to have just a bit too much quality, however.

 

[danielneeds]

I believe Levy will get us some serious additions - primarily because he must, and it is inconceivible that he won't on grounds of pure logic.

Everton are looking like serious contenders this time around, and may displace Newcastle. If we get those few additions and play to our abilities I would expect us to have just a bit too much quality, however.

As usual, you veer on the optimists side SP. I don't know, we have really backed our self into a wall, the next few days will be agonising.

 

[StartingPrice]

As usual, you veer on the optimists side SP. I don't know, we have really backed our self into a wall, the next few days will be agonising.

Well, yup...but as per usual, I would say it is optimism based on cold, hard logic and not some fluffy, fuzzy Panglossian feeling that things will work out well.

Firstly, if you check the transfer record, Levy always initially backs his new manager/coach in the transfer market. It is as though we can't back a coach* incessantly like that twat Abrahmovich, but we are not totally out of the ball park, either, like someone like Wigan. Once the coach gets the players it is up to them to then, like, actually, coach a squad into competitiveness, and Levy will only then support in a more limited way, as in players produced form youth system, which has been invested in massively to move up, bargains, frees, and buy what you get from selling. On that basis, this window I do expect Levy to get some players in - and, frankly, will be hugely disappointed if he doesn't do us proud(ish). I mean, we have a new coach, we have Modric money (finally), we have other sales, too.

Secondly, as most of us are aware, ENIC took THFC on as an investment. I don't have a problem with that. Their investment would have been paying off prior if Citeh hadn't been gifted a huge sum for feck-all work. It makes more sense, now that the training facilities are complete (and some of us are looking forward to a more regular supply of high quality players from that sourse from now on), and the stadium is under way. It doesn't make any sense for ENIC to pull away right now, and it makes little more sense for Levy to take an attitude of hoping for bigger things when the stadium is built and the youth system is producing, but, in the meantime, letting us slide, by selling our best players, not replacing them, and not strengthening. Purely from a selfish viewpoint, as investors, why would they do that? By the time the stadium was finished andstarting to pay for itself, cahnces are we would be right back down the table. It would take years, even from that position of relative strength, to get back up even to where we are now - and it has taken us years and a lot of money to get where we are now. I don't see any logic in either walking away now, or in letting us slide until whenever. So, logically, for that reason, also, I just can't see Levy not spending substantially on players this Summer.

As an aside, I note with interest our latest partners, Real Madrid. I suspect we will be getting some interesting loans and relatively cheap buys, particularly of their younglings, from that quarter. It wouldn't surprise me that when everyone on here thought Daniel was really pushing for price, he was pushing more intently on this.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Watch Suarez play and then try and tell me Defoe isn't a lazy ****.

In all fairness, these first 2 games there has been quite a deliberate tactic of AVBs to leave the NUFC and WBA CBs on the ball, and try and cut off the supply into the midfield, force it to be passed to the FBs and then press the ball there.

Take the NUFC stats for example, Perch and Taylor misplaced just 1 pass between them all day, as we left them on the ball along with Tiote who made 67/81 passes, but the key was out of all those passes very few went to Cabaye, who is their obvious creative passer. Out of Tiote's 67 passes, only 7 went to his CM partner.

I think AVB wanted Defoe to not press the CBs but just cut off the space in front of these players who were all limited passers of the ball, and I think it has worked well.

 

[steve]

Unless Levy pulls off a miracle this week, I don't think we will finish above Everton. They have started like a train, and I think they will go from strength to strength.

LONG way to go don't read too much into the first few results. Their squad isn't big enough or good enough to finish top 4. We'll be fine IF Levy delivers...I still think he will.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

LONG way to go don't read too much into the first few results. Their squad isn't big enough or good enough to finish top 4. We'll be fine IF Levy delivers...I still think he will.

Not so sure. They are looking a tough, solid and combative outfit this year.

 

[ShelfSide18]

Not so sure. They are looking a tough, solid and combative outfit this year.

Sure they are tough and combative, they also have a fair bit of quality and I expect them to be in around the top 6, but I still back us to be above them come May, although I think they may just keep up a challenge for 4th if they stay injury free, and don't lose top payers in Jan.

If they did come 4th then I wouldn't begrudge them at all to be honest, really like Moyes.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

In all fairness, these first 2 games there has been quite a deliberate tactic of AVBs to leave the NUFC and WBA CBs on the ball, and try and cut off the supply into the midfield, force it to be passed to the FBs and then press the ball there.

Take the NUFC stats for example, Perch and Taylor misplaced just 1 pass between them all day, as we left them on the ball along with Tiote who made 67/81 passes, but the key was out of all those passes very few went to Cabaye, who is their obvious creative passer. Out of Tiote's 67 passes, only 7 went to his CM partner.

I think AVB wanted Defoe to not press the CBs but just cut off the space in front of these players who were all limited passers of the ball, and I think it has worked well.

I'm not so sure SS. I would have to watch it all again very closely to make that kind of call, as well as weighing it up against those stats. Have you compared those stats with Newcastle/Cabaye typical performances against other decent teams for example. I really don't see much benefit in Defoe not pressing properly as they were bypassing him fairly easily anyway. What harm would him pressing their CB's cause to the overall plan of pressing the midfield and starving Cabaye.

Suarez pressed like a tosser yesterday and Liverpool still pressed City's midfield out of the game.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I'm not so sure SS. I would have to watch it all again very closely to make that kind of call, as well as weighing it up against those stats. Have you compared those stats with Newcastle/Cabaye typical performances against other decent teams for example. I really don't see much benefit in Defoe not pressing properly as they were bypassing him fairly easily anyway. What harm would him pressing their CB's cause to the overall plan of pressing the midfield and starving Cabaye.

Suarez pressed like a tosser yesterday and Liverpool still pressed City's midfield out of the game.

Nope I haven't compared, but intuition tells me that if a CM competes 67 passes then more than 7 will go to his CM partner? Taking the Newcastle game I thought it was deliberate to force them to pass to their full backs where we pressed them there. It was sweltering hot away to Newcastle, maybe it made sense to not press them all over and leave their limited passers on the ball to give us time to recover off it? I'm not sure, just intuition on my part here. To me it seemed too calculated that Defoe didn't go to press the CBs, but as soon as it was moved wide to their FBs, we were on them - the ZM website picked up on this as well.

Talking of Defoe personally, I always thought there were worse offenders than him off the ball, but then again it's very difficult to judge when HR was in charge because this aspect wasn't a matter of course, it will be interesting to see under AVBs pressing game who in the squad buys into it and who doesn't, because you could get away with it under HR. Already seen enough from Bale and Lennon to suggest they will improve further, and Adebayor worked like a trojan anyway, mainly because it has been drilled into him by the likes of Wenger and Mourinho.

As for Liverpool, they did press the ball well from the bits I saw, Suarez is of course just like I summed up Sandro in ratings, like a fucking wasp at a picnic.

Something to keep my eyes on I guess, and maybe time to bump your tactical autopsy thread?!

 

[steve]

I can see exactly why AVB wants Moutinho.

Livermore and Sandro receive the ball head down, take a touch or two, then head up and move it on usually quite safely and conservatively. It slows us down. Problem is right now he hasn't got anything else to choose from. Personally I'd choose JJ over Livermore, he's more dynamic, but he needs to rebuild his career elsewhere because he's no chance at Spurs. Moutinho is a very capable, 2 footed, technically excellent footballer who's happy to move the ball on quickly, often first time AND he's very disciplined without the ball as well. With him and decent Ade back up I think we'd be a shoe in for 4th. A wing forward would be the cherry on top.

I think BC is being kind to AVB a little. Ade for Defoe was a no brainer for me - maybe VDV was getting tired but I'd still have him on the pitch over Defoe in these circumstances, even on his hands and knees.
Defoe is the Redknapp of strikers, looking out for no. 1 and blind to his own flaws and responsibilities. Two examples stood out for me. First half VDV receives the ball 35 yards from goal, controls a difficult ball and tickles it invitingly into Defoe's path who advances towards goal. Bale is left in a cracking position but of course Defoe shifts and shoots straight at the defender - luckily the ball bounces to Bale who then crosses but who's moaning at him for not squaring it? Defoe of course. Second half as Ade readies himself to come on Defoe takes a quick glance over and sees him on the touchline. Fully expecting to be subbed he takes the ball on the edge of the box and shoots on sight - a quick goal and the manager looks like a mug flashes through his mind.
We need Ade fit as soon as possible and we need back up also that isn't Defoe.

AVB went 442 with Defoe up with Ade and Sig alongside Livermore. It was Harryesque open it up try and score tactics and as a result the game DID open up but it suited West Brom even more than us. To be fair we'd lost shape and momentum before then - I'd honestly forgot about Lennon at one point and Bale wasn't much more involved. VDV wasn't at his best but it was worth the money for his diagonal to Bale alone. He really must stay. To be fair he changed it back after the goal with Jenas coming on.

Verts was decent for a debut, comfortable on the ball, he's not quick (or slow either) and Lukaku gave him and Gallas problems - he'll need time to settle of course.
Friedal made one excellent save but the superglue on his boots won't let him leave his line - I'd like to see a replacement but don't think it'll be this window.

The goal at the end shouldn't change how we see the game of course, problem is if we don't win next week the knives will be out...

 

[steve]

Not so sure. They are looking a tough, solid and combative outfit this year.

It's 2 games. They look good agreed but over 38 games I'll be amazed if they finish higher than us. No Europe will help them, but as soon as they get a few injuries (and they will) they'll be pulled back into the pack. Top 6 yes maybe, top 4 no way.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Liverpool worry me more than Everton who because of their limitations (squad and tactics) invariably have an iffy spell. I think Liverpool will be strong this season and have a very comparable squad, quality wise to us.

 

[StartingPrice]

Liverpool worry me more than Everton who because of their limitations (squad and tactics) invariably have an iffy spell. I think Liverpool will be strong this season and have a very comparable squad, quality wise to us.

Everton always have an iffy spell...at the start of the season

We will finish above the bin-dippers this season

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I can see exactly why AVB wants Moutinho.

Livermore and Sandro receive the ball head down, take a touch or two, then head up and move it on usually quite safely and conservatively. It slows us down. Problem is right now he hasn't got anything else to choose from. Personally I'd choose JJ over Livermore, he's more dynamic, but he needs to rebuild his career elsewhere because he's no chance at Spurs. Moutinho is a very capable, 2 footed, technically excellent footballer who's happy to move the ball on quickly, often first time AND he's very disciplined without the ball as well. With him and decent Ade back up I think we'd be a shoe in for 4th. A wing forward would be the cherry on top.

I think BC is being kind to AVB a little. Ade for Defoe was a no brainer for me - maybe VDV was getting tired but I'd still have him on the pitch over Defoe in these circumstances, even on his hands and knees.
Defoe is the Redknapp of strikers, looking out for no. 1 and blind to his own flaws and responsibilities. Two examples stood out for me. First half VDV receives the ball 35 yards from goal, controls a difficult ball and tickles it invitingly into Defoe's path who advances towards goal. Bale is left in a cracking position but of course Defoe shifts and shoots straight at the defender - luckily the ball bounces to Bale who then crosses but who's moaning at him for not squaring it? Defoe of course. Second half as Ade readies himself to come on Defoe takes a quick glance over and sees him on the touchline. Fully expecting to be subbed he takes the ball on the edge of the box and shoots on sight - a quick goal and the manager looks like a mug flashes through his mind.
We need Ade fit as soon as possible and we need back up also that isn't Defoe.

AVB went 442 with Defoe up with Ade and Sig alongside Livermore. It was Harryesque open it up try and score tactics and as a result the game DID open up but it suited West Brom even more than us. To be fair we'd lost shape and momentum before then - I'd honestly forgot about Lennon at one point and Bale wasn't much more involved. VDV wasn't at his best but it was worth the money for his diagonal to Bale alone. He really must stay. To be fair he changed it back after the goal with Jenas coming on.

Verts was decent for a debut, comfortable on the ball, he's not quick (or slow either) and Lukaku gave him and Gallas problems - he'll need time to settle of course.
Friedal made one excellent save but the superglue on his boots won't let him leave his line - I'd like to see a replacement but don't think it'll be this window.

The goal at the end shouldn't change how we see the game of course, problem is if we don't win next week the knives will be out...

I agree with pretty much all of that. Also the little section re Bale and Defoe's interchange (or lack of) caught my eye too. I thought I said almost exactly the same thing in my ratings re the subs as well.

 

[tobi]

AVB stance on Moutinho says to be me that if he signs then we immediately switch to 4-3-3.