The beginning of the end...

[Tucker]

This thread isn’t looking so knee jerk now, is it.

 

[Hakkz]

Allegri is unlikely because he has never left Italy, neither as a player nor as a manager. I'm not saying that fact automatically disqualifies him, but he might just be a person who wouldn't want to leave for a foreign job.

Quite possible. But then he should probably retire? He's just left the powerhouse of Italy, where else would he go?

 

[Amo]

Bielsa if Poch goes, even if just short term.

 

[jondesouza]

So. what tricks has the 'disruptive' Vertonghen been up to exactly?

I heard he mocked the other players when he beat them at Catan. Bastard.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Unless things are utterly faaaacked and the dressing room is completely beyond repair, I think Poch deserves more time to turn it around. We've been dreadful in the league for most of the year but there were so many mitigating factors last season: injuries, stadium, CL distraction, etc. Now that we've brought in his players we owe Poch some more time after all that he's achieved. To sack him 4 games into the season after losing at the Emirates (where we never win anyway) seems far too trigger-happy to me. He's had plenty of opportunities to jump ship yet he stuck with us. We owe him some loyalty now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Following Arsenal we have 5 winnable games. Let's see how we do in those before we start sharpening the knives.

They don't get more winnable than Newcastle at home in my opinion. In fact, I don't even look at games as winnable anymore. Pre-match chat about the barcodes game had me cringing - it's like no one watched the City game and thought "hold on a bloody minute". Not disrespecting a fabulous City team, but a league one team could have put up a better performance than we did & we absolutely stole points off them. On another day that game represents a hammering scoreline.

 

[morris25]

If he has issues with certain players there is time to ship them out to bring unity back to the squad

 

[stevenurse]

Unless things are utterly faaaacked and the dressing room is completely beyond repair, I think Poch deserves more time to turn it around. We've been dreadful in the league for most of the year but there were so many mitigating factors last season: injuries, stadium, CL distraction, etc. Now that we've brought in his players we owe Poch some more time after all that he's achieved. To sack him 4 games into the season after losing at the Emirates (where we never win anyway) seems far too trigger-happy to me. He's had plenty of opportunities to jump ship yet he stuck with us. We owe him some loyalty now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Following Arsenal we have 5 winnable games. Let's see how we do in those before we start sharpening the knives.

This would depend on the specifics that @ValenciaYid has heard I suppose. If he's had a few rows then fine, that can be sorted. If he's smacked Jan in the face for questioning him then that's a completely different kettle of fish. That's an extreme scenario I know but without knowing the specifics it's hard to know if it will be sorted. We still haven't heard the fall out about Toby yet

 

[Houdini]

Are we only capable in thinking in the negative? Everyone is just torturing themselves here today like SC is lacking a BDSM thread that I thought @Houdini would have set up by now. Let’s see how we feel this time next week, next month, instead of kidding ourselves that this isn’t a knee jerk pit of pessimism we’re intent on drowning ourselves in.

And to think, you’re all usually such a delight after a defeat.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Pretty sure he's been learning English for ages and was very strongly linked to Arsenal before they went for Emery. I get the feeling he's achieved everything he can in Italy and is actively looking for a PL job at this point.

By all means I think it would be a grand choice. I watched him for Cagliari (also as a player in fact) and what he did as a manager for a club of very limited prestige reminds me of what I think Levy would want. I have watched him less for Juventus, but he has arrived where Pochettino would want to be as a fluid manager harnessing the use of several formations in one match.

 

[BENNO]

Unless things are utterly faaaacked and the dressing room is completely beyond repair, I think Poch deserves more time to turn it around. We've been dreadful in the league for most of the year but there were so many mitigating factors last season: injuries, stadium, CL distraction, etc. Now that we've brought in his players we owe Poch some more time after all that he's achieved. To sack him 4 games into the season after losing at the Emirates (where we never win anyway) just seems a bit too trigger-happy to me. He's has plenty of opportunities to jump ship yet he stuck with us. We owe him some loyalty now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Following Arsenal we have 5 winnable games. Let's see how we do in those before we start sharpening the knives.

Weirdly, i think Arsenal is winnable due to the occasion and the fact they play far too open, which will suit us. But then it will only suit us if we are all 'up for it' and together. It could end up a bloodbath.

A week ago i'd have made loads of excuses about the players missing/not up to speed etc and even yesterday i'm more than happy to argue that it is very difficult to break down a 5-4-1 formation when the opposition a) plays it well (which they did) and b) scores first and gains belief from their goal.

But it's the feeling that all is obivously not right that is the problem, and while i agree that Poch has earnt the right to some loyalty, if it's the non manager side of Poch causing the problems (i.e something has changed with him as a person rather than he's just been making poor team selection or using wrong tactics) then loyalty goes out the window imo as things like that need nipping in the bud asap. Even after 3 games.

Of course you then have to factor in whether a chairman renowned for liking to make a profit would actually push out a manager that could conceivably be 'purchased' for double digit millions. Perhaps we should look at that another way and say that if Levy were actually looking to forgo a multimillion windfall and instead actually sacked Poch, then things must be incredibly bad behind the scenes.

 

[Mr Pink]

Unless things are utterly faaaacked and the dressing room is completely beyond repair, I think Poch deserves more time to turn it around. We've been dreadful in the league for most of the year but there were so many mitigating factors last season: injuries, stadium, CL distraction, etc. Now that we've brought in his players we owe Poch some more time after all that he's achieved. To sack him 4 games into the season after losing at the Emirates (where we never win anyway) seems far too trigger-happy to me. He's had plenty of opportunities to jump ship yet he stuck with us. We owe him some loyalty now that the shoe's on the other foot.

Following Arsenal we have 5 winnable games. Let's see how we do in those before we start sharpening the knives.

Absolutely. But the question is the dressing room. If the players aren't 100% committed and playing for him we have a real problem, and leaving it wouldnt change anything really.

So, it's down to the dressing room. If he's lost that, it will be inevitable.

Hopefully not the case though.

 

[g_harry]

So it appears that poch and levy are pulling in different ways. Poch took over the club, blooded younger players and give the club an identity again and a united club from top to bottom. I am not sure if Poch thought he would be as successful has he has been with the squad but it has got him noticed and compared to and competing with Klopp & Pep. However Poch doesnt and never had the spending opportunities they did. Of course Poch will be ambitious and is possibly become slightly jealous of Pep & Klopp buying power at their clubs. I also think that the constant jibe of not winning anything has possibly got to him. Anyway his persona has definitely changed and maybe last season (Burnley game) was the start. He for the first time seemed to challenge the team to step up were as before he maybe sheltered them. Well it blew up big style with main players such as verts having shocker of game. It also coincided with the return of Kane straight into the team from injury. Poch has taken the press hype of title challengers and when the team collapsed he has turned his frustration to Levy for not investment.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Quite possible. But then he should probably retire? He's just left the powerhouse of Italy, where else would he go?

By all means he'd be an interesting choice and Tottenham could do far worse.

 

[thePessimist]

my impression is ones these whisperes appear there's usually no way back

 

[Hakkz]

By all means he'd be an interesting choice and Tottenham could do far worse.

I have no personal preference. Winning the league with Juventus doesn't say a lot. The only unemployed manager I would be interested in though...

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Anyway his persona has definitely changed and maybe last season (Burnley game) was the start. He for the first time seemed to challenge the team to step up were as before he maybe sheltered them. Well it blew up big style with main players such as verts having shocker of game. It also coincided with the return of Kane straight into the team from injury. Poch has taken the press hype of title challengers and when the team collapsed he has turned his frustration to Levy for not investment.

Good points.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I have no personal preference. Winning the league with Juventus doesn't say a lot. The only unemployed manager I would be interested in though...

And you know Levy won't buy somebody out.
Allegri reminds me of who I think Pochettino would want to be and Levy would want to have.

 

[ljinko888]

How fucking foolish was it to cash in on Dembele!

Every dressing room to have a good culture needs that one player who is universally respected as a figurehead. That was Dembele for us. The guy who all the players cited as the best player at the club. The guy who Pochettino labelled a genius and one of the best he'd ever worked with (and he's played with Ronaldinho and some other big name stars). The guy when things were in trouble in the pitch you give the ball to because he had the presence and swagger to put out the fire.

We haven't replaced him on the pitch (hopefully Ndombele will prove to be in time) but we're missing his leadership. The fact is most of our senior players now with the exception of Lloris and Son seem to have problems. Alderweireld's situation has dragged for over a year, Eriksen is not committed beyond this season, Vertonghen has some unknown issue with the manager, Rose was effectively transfer listed in pre-season and Kane is half the player he was pre-injuries. At least with Dembele there was never any trouble in his commitment and relationship with players and manager.

 

[Timberwolf]

This would depend on the specifics that @ValenciaYid has heard I suppose. If he's had a few rows then fine, that can be sorted. If he's smacked Jan in the face for questioning him then that's a completely different kettle of fish. That's an extreme scenario I know but without knowing the specifics it's hard to know if it will be sorted. We still haven't heard the fall out about Toby yet

Yeah I agree with that, hence the first line in my previous post. If things really are that bad, this must have been bubbling under the surface for a while. Bit weird considering how happy and together the squad seemed in the build up to the CL final. Creating squad harmony was always one of Poch's most effortless qualities after he rid the squad of Kaboul/Lennon/Ade when he arrived.

 

[Dirtysanchez6]

At the end of the day the league form and performances in the whole since the new year don’t lie it’s as simple as that ! To top that off the press conferences, now you can’t tell me them press conferences don’t have an affect on the players iswell! Something isn’t right, strangely enough I though trippier was talking rubbish when he said that after he moved but clearly something is going on behind closed doors! To my next point and a lot won’t like it .... Jose mourinho ! The guy is an absolute must if poch goes to take us to that next level, just name me a club he hasn’t won a trophy at and he will certainly get a reaction from the players also he has a point to prove himself