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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 14th July 2014

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Krafty

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May 26, 2004
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Or promote from the youth team.

The point is the squad is already beyond the limits what with Benny and Holtby back from their loan spells, if we bought more foreigners then that would mean other foreigners would have to miss out on being registered for the league, and this problem is increased if we sell the few first teamers who are home grown eligible.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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For defenders?

No, you won't see that. But Benny and Lee both had to play behind nominal LMs in the shape of Modric and Steed and coped far better than Rose.
Modric & Steed offered more protection than Eriksen did. Also, out team had a lot more shape & tactical positioning then than we did under Sherwood. Under AVB, we conceded 1 goal in 4 games with Rose as LB.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
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I don't agree with any of those things in bold. If I did, I would be happy we are trying to sign him. I value Intelligence over pace.

Intelligence is good when you play a deep sitting back 4 and you're not relying on your full backs to be creative ... Germany being a good example, but if Poch sets up similar to Dimwood and plays a higher line or expects the full backs to support the wide players at every opportunity, then not having pace is a big problem. A perfect example is when we played Vertonghen at left back. At the end of the day, it depends how we setup and as of yet we do not know what tactics Poch will use.
 

spurs9

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Well, we might as well sack him now. Why waste time?
WTF??? That is a pathetic response, especially given that earlier I stated even top managers like Fergie make poor signings. By your response should I take it that 1 poor signing and you will want him gone?
 

KevinW

50 Years Fan
May 21, 2006
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Remy predominantly plays RWF, where we already have 3 players (Lamela, Townsend and Lennon).

I would like us to go for Kono, but suspect we'll use Eriksen out left for the next 12 months and move for Rodriguez next summer if he recovers from his knee reconstruction.
Lamela could play on the left. As for the other two - the evidence of last season is that we need to upgrade on them. And I don't want to see Eriksen out wide - he should be central where he can be most effective
 

SpurSince57

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Jan 20, 2006
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No, in general. I guess a better way to phrase what I'm trying to say is that I think attacking stats are more relevant to evaluating the quality of attacking players than defensive stats are to evaluating defenders, due to the relatively greater effect tactics have on defending (IMO).

As for your second point I'm not necessarily defending Rose (I think LB should be our top priority this window), but TBF he is more of a wing back by nature and was called on to provide all of our width on the left while playing behind f**king Chadli and Paulinho in CM. He really was hung out to dry by Tim, even if he's a bit shit to begin with.

Or, he was given a task and wasn't up to it. Again, Lee and BAE had to cover for Steed and Modric, and both of them coped pretty well.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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Intelligence is good when you play a deep sitting back 4 and you're not relying on your full backs to be creative ... Germany being a good example, but if Poch sets up similar to Dimwood and plays a higher line or expects the full backs to support the wide players at every opportunity, then not having pace is a big problem. A perfect example is when we played Vertonghen at left back. At the end of the day, it depends how we setup and as of yet we do not know what tactics Poch will use.
I agree to an extent, however, even with a high line, reading the game, positioning yourself etc is far more useful than just having pace. Ideally for a FB in a high line you would want both, but rather have a FB with a bit more intelligence and a bit less pace than vice versa.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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Every youngster has potential to be a much better player. There's no way he's never going to improve in the next 10 years of his career...
The chance might be low but it has happened many times before and to players with more potential than Davies.
 

KevinW

50 Years Fan
May 21, 2006
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I agree to an extent, however, even with a high line, reading the game, positioning yourself etc is far more useful than just having pace. Ideally for a FB in a high line you would want both, but rather have a FB with a bit more intelligence and a bit less pace than vice versa.
Isn't Kyle Walker the embodiment of the counter-argument to that. He gets by because he has the pace to enable to him to recover when he gets in bad positions. (later addition) some of the time
 

JayB

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Aug 24, 2011
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Or, he was given a task and wasn't up to it. Again, Lee and BAE had to cover for Steed and Modric, and both of them coped pretty well.
There's more to it than just who was playing LM. As @spurs9 mentioned above we played with some semblance of structure in those days and Eriksen probably provided the least cover of the three. Rose was also asked to play a far more attacking role than, say, Benny ever was. I honestly don't think there's a LB in world football who could have succeeded under Sherwood's setup. Again, that doesn't mean I don't think we should address the LB position this window.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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The point is the squad is already beyond the limits what with Benny and Holtby back from their loan spells, if we bought more foreigners then that would mean other foreigners would have to miss out on being registered for the league, and this problem is increased if we sell the few first teamers who are home grown eligible.
We only have 18 players that don't count as HG in the squad and we are allowed 17. So we have to sell 1 non HG player plus 1 for every HG player we bring in. Benny, Falque and Khumlo will, most likely, be on their way out, which allows us to get a LB & a CB. If we want to sign a CM, we will need to move on either Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho or Dembele anyway, regardless of HG status of the incoming player and I don't believe we need a striker unless Ade or Soldado move on.
 

Spursidol

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Sep 15, 2007
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Lamela could play on the left. As for the other two - the evidence of last season is that we need to upgrade on them. And I don't want to see Eriksen out wide - he should be central where he can be most effective

Lamela is left footed but has always played on the right wing

Several Ajax fans that I know tell me Eriksen actially played as a left attacking mid - not centrally - drifting into the centre. Curiously Tim got that one spot on.
 

SpurSince57

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Jan 20, 2006
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WTF??? That is a pathetic response, especially given that earlier I stated even top managers like Fergie make poor signings. By your response should I take it that 1 poor signing and you will want him gone?

Jesus wept. You really aren't all that bright, are you?

If he wants Davies as 1st choice (and/or only LB signing), then yes, imo he has made the wrong choice of LB.

There you are. You've decided that you are right and Pochettino is wrong. Davies is going to be a poor signing. Clearly, it hasn't entered your head that Pochettino, Baldini, Broomfield et al might just have got things right.
 

spurs9

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Aug 31, 2012
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Isn't Kyle Walker the embodiment of the counter-argument to that. He gets by because he has the pace to enable to him to recover when he gets in bad positions. (later addition) some of the time
He is not the perfect defender by any means and he is at the extreme side of having a lot pace. Walker would be a better defender if he was more intelligent and lost a bit of pace. Ivanovic & Zabaleta are both slower smarter and better right backs.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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Lamela is left footed but has always played on the right wing

Several Ajax fans that I know tell me Eriksen actially played as a left attacking mid - not centrally - drifting into the centre. Curiously Tim got that one spot on.

Maybe he asked him what position he plays?
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
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He might be average now but you seem to be unable to recognise that in a few years under good coaching he could be an excellent LB.
I dont see that kind of potential in Davies. Plus, we need a good LB now! We cant wait for a few years. Look at our squad! We have very good quality in multiple areas and are only a few pieces from CL, mainly on the left side! We need those upgrades now to ensure we can keep our quality players and continue to improve the squad and be able to field a competitive team as we head toward a new stadium.

We are apparently spending 10m now on a player who wasnt good last season whose potential is good, not great or excellent.

Keeping all these factors in mind, its just not a good piece of business.

And if I see another "davies is worth 10m because thats what the market says" post, im going to freak. Look at the overall market, FFS! Not just in English football! If Ben Davies was not playing in England or Wales, we would not be hearing quoted fees 10mill or 12mill. We'd be hearing fees of 5 mill to 8 mill(on the tip top high end). Thats the real market! Prices for players in enish football are skewed and do mot represent the market. The market is what a player is actually worth. Clubs are paying way above market value in England football! For a club that is well run, tries to balance the books, and is ambitious, we shouldnt be paying way above market value like the fees are in the premier league. The whole thats market value argument is bullshit and liverpool has proven that. Was Andy Carroll really worth £35mill???? Hell no! Was Adam Lallana really worth £25mill? Hell no! If Erik Lamela was playing in england instead of Roma, we would have had to pay at least 45mill for him and would not have been able to afford him! The whole market value argument is completely out the window in the premier league befause of outrageous quoted fees. Davies real market value is not 10mill. Its about half that!
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
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We only have 18 players that don't count as HG in the squad and we are allowed 17. So we have to sell 1 non HG player plus 1 for every HG player we bring in. Benny, Falque and Khumlo will, most likely, be on their way out, which allows us to get a LB & a CB. If we want to sign a CM, we will need to move on either Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho or Dembele anyway, regardless of HG status of the incoming player and I don't believe we need a striker unless Ade or Soldado move on.

We don't need 25 players in our first team squad - the peripheral ones only play a few games. Much better to have a squad of 21 players anbd have a few youngsters to (a) make up numbers when required (b) give them experience to come into the first team.

So overall I'd suggest we drop the non HG quotient to probably no more than 16
 
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