The Daily ITK Discussion thread 9th June 2012

[felmani26]

Wasnt it Ryan (and he would be arguably best placed ITK on this) who said the other day that there was a 4 year deal on the table a few months back for Harry and he didnt take it? Presumably because he thought the England job was his for the taking.

You cant just turn that down and then when the better job offer evaporates into thin air go back to your current employer and assume the offer that you have already turned down is still there for you. He's negotiating from a far weaker position now.

Problem is as well is that both Harry and Levy are expert negotiators and both feel vindicated in their stance and neither look like backing down.

 

[SSC]

Given all this talk of Harry maybe getting the boot, it would be quite tactical and well timed from a PR stand point to do it this weekend, or even on Monday.

The whole British press will be focussed on the Euros and England that the story will get pushed back a few pages. By the time England lose in the 1/4s to Russia the story will be as good as chip paper.

 

[mpickard2087]

Problem is as well is that both Harry and Levy are expert negotiators and both feel vindicated in their stance and neither look like backing down.

Yep, it will be interesting to see who cracks first on this. I can see Levy just letting this season go by and Harrys contract winding down with it if he doesnt take this new contract. But if Harry isnt happy and wants a longer deal... would he walk out?

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

It would be ironic to sack Redknapp on Monday - the day of England's first game in the Euros - the job he wanted more than any other.

 

[jimtheyid]

Maybe I was mistaken on DoF. Was sure I had read it on here.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

England is the biggest job in English football, regardless of your feelings towards the national team or international football, fact is to many many people it's the single biggest job and be pinnacle of any English managers career. Hodgson, Pardrew and Redknapp all said he same thing.

When England make the quarter finals in 2 weeks time you watch the whole nation get behind the team.

We should all be proud of manager was linked with the job, it shows what fantastic work he has done here.

You cannot really blame Redknapo for wanting that job. It's not like he wanted the Arsenal Job and he already said before he wouldn't leave for Chelsea as he couldn't do that to the Spurs fans.

I don't really see what he has done wrong, the only issue was The FA pissing about, but our players let us down big time, they all stopped performing. So the blame cannot souly be Harry's fault.

We was all begging Levy to give Harry a new deal to try and stop him going to England now we want rid? Behave.

Harry didn't get England job, but he did get Spurs 4th. That to me is progress from last season. He deserves a new deal.

your acting like we are in the cl, and forgetting the fact that we where third for so long. he only has himself to blame we should be in champions league but no he got distracted. add that to redknapp being ahypocrite saying the players don't care whether he's the manager or not, now going back on hes word saying all this speculation about hes future will affect players.

Its all right for harry not to commit to the club when their was a potential england job on the horizon, now hes not got the job, he suddenly deserves a new deal? DO ME A FAVOUR.

 

[KevinW]

Ok.........let me see if i get this right

Levy and Harry are not getting on
Levy seemingly wants Harry out but his hands are tied by his boss
His Boss, Mr Lewis, also does not get on with Harry

So people are presuming its a compensation thing......if that is the case then they surely won't be offer Harry a new contract, just an extension option at the end of next season if both parties agree, which right now seems unlikely

So we will have Harry next season, but his heart won't be in at as he knows he is not valued enough for a nice shiny new contract

Sounds like the ingredients for 12 months of treading water to me. Which financially is not ideal, so might as well pay the compensation

Or something big is on the horizon which JJ can't allude to, and Mr Lewis thinks sacking the manager now would be detrimental to that process

I'm not sure this all adds up right now!! Or at least it won't whilst we are missing parts of the equation

It may make sense if Enic are selling. If the prospective new owners like HR (could the rumours of HR in Middle East a week or so back have assumed he was looking at another job when in fact he was meeting the new owners?), DL and JL are good enough businessmen to not let their views on HR get in the way of the deal. They would leave the question of a new contract to the new boys. Depending on how quickly this happened,it could explain why JJSet is confident that all will be well by the start of the season - things could fall into place quite quickly once the change of ownership is done and we could have new funding.

Highly speculative of course, but at least has a bit of logic to it as a theory

 

[Breezer]

I cant and wont post about potential signings or incoming or outgoing players but what i will say is don't lose faith as we will be all good by the start of the season!

Ps does anyone want to buy some deadwood.....and quickly!!

Other teams would loveeee some of our deadwood! Unfortunatelt mr levy wants top dollar for our deadwood and wants to penny pinch when buying stars from other teams. Maybe that's why sir Alex labeled DL as "different".

I'm not saying we should make a major loss on sales but it seems like DL wants to break even or make profit on our deadwood. How can we sell GDS and expect to make profit?! He never plays an has gained very little match experience while at Spurs yet we want to hold out for big money!

Get what you can for Bassong, jenas, corluka, nelson, GDS, rose etc etc and clear them out the squad once and for all... Also so it ASAP do we have time to snap up a few fresh talents.

 

[Dr Know]

As usual the ITK postings are up and down, some back up each other and some go against...............................at least they're less cryptic but have we all forgotten the salt?

No ddisrespect to any members posting in good faith what they've heard or thought they heard but a pinch of salt for sanity is still needed.

What happens if Adie's info (which was sort of backed up by Daz I think) comes true? Does this now mean JJ is a WUM? I would hate for him or any other member passing on info in good faith to be branded a WUM because some of us forgot to take it with a pinch of salt because as admitted by some ITKs in the past, things can change from the moment the info is given to the time that it's posted on here!


Chill people!

 

[mpickard2087]

Other teams would loveeee some of our deadwood! Unfortunatey mr levy wants top dollar for our deadwood and wants to penny pinch when buying stars from other teams. Maybe that's why sir Alex labeled DL as "different".

I'm not saying we should make a major loss on sales but it seems like DL wants to break even or make profit on our deadwood. How can we sell GDS and expect to make profit?! He never plays an has gained very little match experience while at Spurs yet we want to hold out for big money!

Get what you can for Bassong, jenas, corluka, nelson, GDS, rose etc etc and clear them out the squad once and for all... Also do it ASAP do we have time to snap up a few fresh talents.

Except we purchased for circa £5m and teams have been prepared to pay £13m to take him from us, but the little git wont go unless its to a Spanish team near the beach. And then when at last it looks like happening, said team get relegated and the deals off. Hardly us holding out.

 

[Misfit]

Besides which, H is already on a contract. I know this is virtually unheard of in the nursery school tanturm and ego factory that is English football but he's signed a contract that pays him a very good sum of money. Ethically, or even just professionally, H should be giving his all and putting personal feelings aside because of it. If he feels he can't do his job properly otherwise, he should offer to transfer some of his wages back to the club or walk away altogether.

No doubt this will be construed as anti-H by some but it isn't. It's asking him to put on some big boy trousers and live in the real world like a 65 yr old should. It's a very reasonable request.

No more jabbering in the press or holding his hand to his forehead dramatically.

If this shit derails the success of this club in the upcoming season I will never forgive H and won't hear a good word spoken about him again. I'll also, and this is a first for me, feel similarly about DL and or Lewis.

Fuck the fucking lot of them if their egos fuck this up.

 

[Tottenham Tom]

Given all this talk of Harry maybe getting the boot, it would be quite tactical and well timed from a PR stand point to do it this weekend, or even on Monday.

The whole British press will be focussed on the Euros and England that the story will get pushed back a few pages. By the time England lose in the 1/4s to Russia the story will be as good as chip paper.

We're likely to get Spain in the quarters (if we get through at all) - otherwise a good point.

 

[Breezer]

Except we purchased for circa £5m and teams have been prepared to pay £13m to take him from us, but the little git wont go unless its to a Spanish team near the beach. And then when at last it looks like happening, said team get relegated and the deals off. Hardly us holding out.

One Italian team offered stupid money for GDS but he didn't want to go! Does that mean we should hold on to him in hope that some other deluded team offers crazy money? Or let him go for a reasonable offer which might be a small loss? If we need to clear deadwood before we can buy then we can't expect best of both worlds. Seems like DL wants to clear the junk for profit! It's going to be another long summer! But have faith all we be well blah blah blah

 

[punky]

Other teams would loveeee some of our deadwood! Unfortunatelt mr levy wants top dollar for our deadwood and wants to penny pinch when buying stars from other teams. Maybe that's why sir Alex labeled DL as "different".

I'm not saying we should make a major loss on sales but it seems like DL wants to break even or make profit on our deadwood. How can we sell GDS and expect to make profit?! He never plays an has gained very little match experience while at Spurs yet we want to hold out for big money!

Get what you can for Bassong, jenas, corluka, nelson, GDS, rose etc etc and clear them out the squad once and for all... Also so it ASAP do we have time to snap up a few fresh talents.

While I agree, i'm sure there is a solid business case for Levy's aproach. The guy can earn a shekel, that's for sure. And Lewis is no fool either, he's a self-made billionaire.

 

[SpurSince57]

Which Harry didn't want, of course.... he was busting to stay, that's why he came out and said "I'm staying!!" to settle our players, and then we marched on through the early months of 2012 and finished 3rd at a canter!!!!!

Oh wait... that didn't happen.

Your implication was that he'd have jumped at any offer.

I just love the way some people think he should have dismissed what for him and every manager of his generation—probably, truth be told, for every football manager full stop—would have been the pinnacle of his career. It's just so easy for us to say, isn't it, when we aren't faced with such a quandary and are unlikely ever to be? Personally, I couldn't give a toss about international football and think anyone who wants, let alone takes, the England job needs locking up, but I can appreciate that Capello's unexpected sacking and the ensuing press feeding frenzy put him in a near-impossible situation that he'd have had to be near superhuman not to be affected by. There was in any case speculation that he'd be the blazers' Number One Choice and would leave this summer long before Capello was fired; this didn't seem to do any harm. People are also forgetting that he had a heart bypass and a major court case, neither of which can have helped.

Things might easily have gone tits-up in those games against Arsenal, United and Everton in any case, and certain players need to look to themselves for the Mickey Mouse defending that blew a two-goal lead against the Goons; that can't be laid at Harry's door. He has to take the ultimate blame for not stabilising things after that, and for failing to take advantage when the wheels came off Arsenal's recovery, but to carry on as if 69 points and fourth is some kind of catastrophe is absurd.

 

[HappySpur]

And it's not always Mr Levy that might be causing an issue in transfers

Much like we can't afford most players from City, Bayern, Liverpool, United, Milan, Inter, Barca, Real or Chelsea, due to wages.....a club that might be interested in our secondary players might not be able to match our wages. We often think of ourselves as cheap, but we pay good wages.

Hopefully like Ade and Rafa, something can be worked out though.

 

[mpickard2087]

One Italian team offered stupid money for GDS but he didn't want to go! Does that mean we should hold on to him in hope that some other deluded team offers crazy money? Or let him go for a reasonable offer which might be a small loss? If we need to clear deadwood before we can buy then we can't expect best of both worlds. Seems like DL wants to clear the junk for profit! It's going to be another long summer! But have faith all we be well blah blah blah

My point was that 1) it may be possible to sell him at a profit but mainly 2) sometimes it isnt just a case of 'Club A makes bid, Club B accepts, deal done'. The players can fuck this is up.

Also on a related note, its been said many times that Dos Santos only wants to go to Spain. This is really going to encourage bids from other clubs isnt it? We were apparently all set to sell him to Villarreal this summer for a reasonable price, but they got relegated and the deals off. Thats bad luck on our part. But what do now, just release the guy and pay him even more money just to 'get rid'?

As for the rest of the deadwood you mentioned:

Jenas - Presume no-one wanted him as he was loaned out, potentially good idea if he impresses and this draws interest from other clubs and pushes his price tag up. But has been injured all year, so I doubt anyone wants him right now.

Bentley - Ditto.

Bassong - Loaned out, again I presume because no-one wanted him permanantly, played poorly in a shit team. Hardly going to improve his attractiveness to other clubs is it? And it should be noted we were prepared to sell him last summer but had to pull the plug because we didnt get Cahill in as an upgrade.

The above three I am sure we would be pragmatic enough to accept that we will be making a (huge) loss on. Then we have:

Nelsen - A six month deal, will be released by the end of the month. Irrelevent.

Corluka - Loaned (reluctantly, because he wanted footy ahead of the Euros) with a set fee to Leverkusen, so a deal we were willing to do at our end. But they have decided they dont want him now, hardly our fault. If he still wants to go then I'm sure there will be no shortage of clubs willing to take him.

Then you have Pienaar, bought cheap by us, loaned out to Everton where he does well. Proven Prem quality who will improve the majority of teams in our league. Easily worth £5-7m. But his heart seems set on Everton and nowhere else, and as ever they are whining they are skint and wont pay that. Should we just give him away for a couple of million in order to get him off the books? No fucking way.

Sometimes its a lot more complicated than just accepting a loss on a player, and if we do decide to, its crazy to take this approach deal after deal.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Your implication was that he'd have jumped at any offer.

I just love the way some people think he should have dismissed what for him and every manager of his generation—probably, truth be told, for every football manager full stop—would have been the pinnacle of his career. It's just so easy for us to say, isn't it, when we aren't faced with such a quandary and are unlikely ever to be? Personally, I couldn't give a toss about international football and think anyone who wants, let alone takes, the England job needs locking up, but I can appreciate that Capello's unexpected sacking and the ensuing press feeding frenzy put him in a near-impossible situation that he'd have had to be near superhuman not to be affected by. There was in any case speculation that he'd be the blazers' Number One Choice and would leave this summer long before Capello was fired; this didn't seem to do any harm. People are also forgetting that he had a heart bypass and a major court case, neither of which can have helped.

Things might easily have gone tits-up in those games against Arsenal, United and Everton in any case, and certain players need to look to themselves for the Mickey Mouse defending that blew a two-goal lead against the Goons; that can't be laid at Harry's door. He has to take the ultimate blame for not stabilising things after that, and for failing to take advantage when the wheels came off Arsenal's recovery, but to carry on as if 69 points and fourth is some kind of catastrophe is absurd.

I think he would have jumped at any offer he would have considered better than what he currently has. In my opinion, that's how it looked. We had it with the Chelsea job, and then the England job. Looked like he might leave twice, but in the end neither Chelsea or England wanted him - so now he's stuck with us he thinks we owe him. Right.

I don't think he should have dismissed the opportunity. What he shouldn't have done is let it effect the job that he actually DID have.

Finishing 4th from where we were is a disaster. A failure, even. By anyone's standards - we fucked it up.

"The Mickey Mouse defending" is, in theory, coached by Redknapp - and he was in charge of tactically ensuring we were capable of holding onto that game - but as each goal went in... what did he do?! Did he change anything to try to stem the flow of the game, to get us a foothold in the game?

And that was the start point of the period he should have stabilised, as you say, but he failed to do so. And it's not the first time we collapsed in the second half of the season, as I said before, 2010/11 was pretty crap too.

Same as games like the Norwich game at home - as I said, you could see Lambert barking instructions at his players, ensuring they followed his game plan. Redknapp just hid on the bench as we bent over like a cheap slut to be fucked.

 

[AngerManagement]

I think Lambert will be a success at Villa, I actually think he may over take Rodgers as the manager we are moaning about shouldda wouldda couldda in the next few seasons

 

[Sir Henry]

Wrong boy to talk to, talk to JR instead!!

Ewing ?