The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Or is it? 28th July 2014

[Spursidol]

The Schneiderlin and Rodriguez rumors are hard to ignore and it does sound like we are putting in the work to tie them up. It'll be interesting to see how those moves could change our squad. Schneiderlin being able to play DM/B2B and Rodriguez being able to provide starting talent at LW and real nice depth at Striker. He can basically be like our Welbeck in that he can play on the left but also through the middle which is obviously valuable for a club that is expected to make a challenge in many competitions.

I personally think the players most effected by a potential Schneiderlin signing could be Dembele and Sandro. Both will have suitors and we should be able to recoup all the money spent on Schneiderlin (realistically more than what we paid, too) via their sales. It'd give us Paulinho/Schneiderlin/Bentaleb as options for a B2B role and then Capoue/Schneiderlin as option for DM. Carroll could be loaned out again, hopefully to a Premier League side, and I don't see that being very hard to find someone to take him on.

As for Rodriguez, I don't think it has much effect on the bigger names at the club. I always thought Falque was a player we would look to sell if we thought we could get a decent enough fee. I'm a big fan of Falque, I think he's shown generally well when he's been called upon (even a couple years ago now when he played against Norwich), but I could see us moving him on if we are convinced Rodriguez is looking at a return of October instead of December-January. Perhaps we keep him here for depth in the event Rodriguez suffers a setback and then look to sell in January (would still have a contract remaining until Summer 2015). Perhaps Kane would be effected in that he might be loaned out. I personally would like to keep him here and let him continue to develop under the tutelage of Pochettino.

Good summary Snarf

I'd suggest its likely that we'll find over the next few days that 2/3 players who Poch doesn't want in the squad (not that they are bad players, just where we have too many in one position and they don't fit Poch's system).

Not sure who they'll be - and lots of SC'ers will make their own guesses, but there were 22 players on the north america tour being looked at by Poch and a further 11 players not on the tour - so if we have indeed acquired Morgan and Rodriguez that's 35 players before sales/loans....whilst Southampton have a shortage of players, so the players will both bridge any valuation differences issues and give both clubs what they want.

 

[spursfan77]

Grey Fox with some ITK.

Would be worrying to hold off on CB until January in my opinion. Although, I'm not sure if whoever we could realistically add will be that much of an improvement on what we have.

Going into the first half of the season with our current centre backs or with 1 less of them will be a huge mistake. As big as not signing left back last summer.

We should be adding fit players there like mad with the amount of injuries we have there.

 

[Snuzzy]

There's not been any ITK on that, when there is, we can speculate.

Now watch as this hint gets totally ignored. Someone just wont be able to help themselves. Who will win the inuagural "fuckwit of the night" award?

No doubt someone will want to talk about Danny Rose AGAIN. Someone will bring Twitter into it AGAIN.

I'll be back later to dish out the "prizes".

AHEM

Poch wants both, believe we have offered players in return.

 

[Spursidol]

Has there been any news on twitter about Rose going to Southampton?

If he does we need another LB, so my guess is we'd prefer him to stay

 

[Mr Pink]

This could not be right:

Things are so bad at St Mary's that boss Ronald Koeman posted a picture online yesterday of an empty training ground with the words "ready for training".

 

[tony0379]

Has there been any news on twitter about Rose going to Southampton?

Yeah mate, Neil Eatson and Adam Suter were having a brief convo about it earlier.

 

[Amo]

We have a winner!

Has there been any news on twitter about Rose going to Southampton?

 

[Snarfalicious]

Good summary Snarf

I'd suggest its likely that we'll find over the next few days that 2/3 players who Poch doesn't want in the squad (not that they are bad players, just where we have too many in one position and they don't fit Poch's system).

Not sure who they'll be - and lots of SC'ers will make their own guesses, but there were 22 players on the north america tour being looked at by Poch and a further 11 players not on the tour - so if we have indeed acquired Morgan and Rodriguez that's 35 players before sales/loans....whilst Southampton have a shortage of players, so the players will both bridge any valuation differences issues and give both clubs what they want.

I also failed to mention that the situation with Veljkovic could be really interesting. If Poch is sold on him being able to contribute, he could obviously function as backup at DM/CB which would be hugely valuable to our squad given the amount of injuries we seem to suffer at both positions.

 

[freeeki]

@mattdaviesmcr: I'm hearing #THFC have completed the signings of #Schneiderlin and #JayRodriguez announcement imminent.

 

[Sandro30]

Taken this from a supposed Saints ITK - bolded the important bit but it's all interesting. (imo)


Crab Lungs

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I've taken a lot of stick on here for my viewpoint over the past few months... That's fine, I can accept that but now can any of you finally see what's happening here? I've PM'd some people on here with some of the stuff that I have been told already and there's plenty more to come. I'm part tempted to blab it all out now as, just as I was typing a PM to someone today the JR and MS story broke... and that was what was the content of my PM - the future of those two. Oh well, lost some ITK credibility there. Seriously though, I haven't enjoyed any of this happening and I can safely say that those worried have a damn good reason to worry.

So, onto the juicy stuff... I'll try do this in sections and keep updating it as I go...

Cortese Leaving/Direction Of Club

Anyway, you may not like to hear this but yes, everything went to complete sh1t when Cortese left. It was never "business as usual". The figurehead who sold the club to Lovren, Osvaldo, Wanyama and the other ambitious members of our existing squad took all the drive and ambition with him. Like him or not, he wanted to push us further and the players believed in that vision, that's what motivated them to join or in some cases, stay when they could have moved on a lot sooner.

The official line is that KL wanted NC to have more accountability to his actions - that's fair enough. After all, it's technically her club and her money. The relationship between the two had been fraught for a while with NC wanted to go in one direction and KL, maintaining a small interest in football matters but a larger one in financial matters wanting to go another. Evidently, this would only lead with a parting of ways and one winner whilst ourselves and Cortese are left as the losers in this whole sorry saga. Oh, and Les Reed is doing alright, too - then again, he was never going to rock the boat with the cushy number he had. "Yes Kat, no Kat, three bags full Kat".

The appointment of Krueger has spectacularly backfired - he was meant to be the figurehead who "talked the talk" whilst quietly, behind the scenes, things were being scaled down and the goalposts shifting. As soon as NC left, it was never our intention to "walk the walk" too - only to allude to it whilst slowly dampening and managing fans expectations. As Guan said, he was reeled back in and Reed was wheeled back out. To be honest though, it doesn't matter who releases statements now as it's been proven - it's all bullsh1t.

Finances

I need to underline something else... there is nothing wrong with the club financially. The term that Hofstetter used was to discredit NC and NC hasn't released anything into the media about players leaving or tried to unsettle them. They did have a lot of respect for him and wholly supported the direction of the club under his tenure. NC did that interview after he left because he knew what was coming.

We are one of the healthiest clubs in the Premier League and even more so now to the detriment of our playing squad. We won't hugely over budget with the training ground and yes, NC was carefree with the cash during his time here but despite this, we were in healthy, normal position. It's not a Pompey or Leeds situation and the wage budget sits well within the structure. We've not been overstretching nor were careless with managing them. We were absolutely fine and in a position to add to our squad after an equal best-placed finish under Pochettino last year.

Possible Sale Of Club

I don't know for sure but it's rumoured that KL wants to make up the difference in her valuation with player sales... whether that's the case, I'm not sure but no-one was willing to pay the asking price over the last few months so a reduced price might see a few interested parties come to the table. Once she's stripped the club bare and reinvested the bare minimum, that is, to keep us whatever is viewed as "competitive".

Adam Lallana

Adam, as club captain, asked numerous times on behalf of himself and the players about the plans for this season from Feb/March onwards. Everyone wanted to know for sure that the "project" was still alive. At first he was told "everything will carry on as normal" as if Cortese was still there. Quietly, the scenery was shifting and Adam and the players recognised this. In addition to this, the situation surrounding the managers future also compounded matters and it wasn't before long that the squad began to wonder what was going on and what direction the club was going in.

Adam did try but like everyone else, failed to get a conclusive answer to his questions. Towards the end of last season, he'd already been lined up to join United but with Moyes being sacked that deal fell through. Later, Liverpool's interest surface and despite AL's attempts to deal with the situation maturely he was messed around and he left on a very sour note. That was never his intention, likewise it was never the intention of Lovren, too. In fact, none of the players were particularly itching for a move until Cortese, then Pochettino left and the whole continuation of the "project" was left clouded in mystery.

Players (ex and soon to be ex-players)

There are no clauses in any of the players contracts. They requested to leave - why though?

In January, the club were well aware of the Shaw interest and were already in discussions with potential suitors. This was to be the ONLY planned sale under Cortese and preparation for the new season was already being discussed between NC, MP and other staff.

With the plummeting depth in morale due to a lack of communication from the top about the directions and ambitions of the club, the players obviously talked amongst themselves and saw no future here unless they got reassurances. Like Adam, they got lip service if they were lucky or nothing at all. You only have to look back at previous comments in the press from the players over the past few months where they're hinting that they didn't know what was going on and that they'd be happy to stay if the club focus and ambition was still the same. Instead, they got silence.

That said, there are many factors in their decisions to leave and in some cases, intrinsically linked. The Pochettino effect, clubs direction, suitors and possibility of European football, raises in salary BUT it's worth knowing that before Cortese left, all were very settled and happy and many were contented with the progress being made. Sure, they were ambitious but that ambition simply mirrored that of their chairman and manager. To keep them, we'd have to align our ambitions with theirs and we didn't.

Make no mistake, apart from Shaw and the sentimental sale of Lambert (who, incidentally, wanted to finish his career here otherwise), many of the sales and impending sales were avoidable. How? By matching their ambitions. By retaining their teammates. By retaining and backing the popular manager first and foremost would have given us the best possible opportunity to keep a hold of those players.

I was just typing a PM today to someone about the J-Rod, Schneiderlin situation when the news broke but yes, they're next and won't be the last.

The morale of the team was further damaged by the outgoings after Shaw's sale and with the lack of the communication about the direction of the club many decided they'd have enough. As mentioned before, their ambitions aligned with that of the previous chairman and without the same drive/figurehead/ambition as previous then it was only natural they'd instruct their agents to look elsewhere. The treatment some of the players received during the period where potential suitors were circling was shambolic, too. The board acted amateurishly, refusing to take calls from players and making it as difficult as possible to communicate with them about the clubs intentions. The whole trust relationship broke down unsurprisingly and that's we've had what seems like toys being thrown out the pram. It wasn't. It was the frustration seeping out of the players at the club after many months of not-knowing.

Yes, Cortese really was the glue that kept it all together.

Worth taking notice that despite all the hatred towards the outgoing players, how gracious have they all been since they left, including Pochettino. Most have all thanked the fans and the club for their time and memories and in the case of our home-grown players, the development of them as players. They'll remain classy as they were brought up "The Southampton Way" - the sad thing is, there is no way any more.

TBC

Thanks for posting this, a really interesting read.

 

[CJMurray]

@mattdaviesmcr: I'm hearing #THFC have completed the signings of #Schneiderlin and #JayRodriguez announcement imminent.

Never heard of this guy before and he doesn't seem to work for a paper. Might be a fake account.

 

[Snarfalicious]

@mattdaviesmcr: I'm hearing #THFC have completed the signings of #Schneiderlin and #JayRodriguez announcement imminent.

I shall pray for you.

 

[SpurSince57]

I can't see us selling Dawson without buying a new CB. The only way I can see us not signing a CB is if

1. Poch is sure Kaboul is completely fit
2. Poch has immense confidence in Veljkovic
3. We're not selling Chiriches.

If conditions 1) and 3) are correct, then I really don't see the point of buying another CB, unless he's a major improvement on what we have.

Still, there's a worrying echo of summer 2007 here, when 99.999% of SC members wanted us to buy an experienced CB, and we signed Kaboul instead. According to ITK, we could have had Distin, but didn't because—according to one theory—Levy was against signing players with no sell-on value; given that Distin's still looking pretty effective for Everton, even though he's nearly as old as Brad, that looks to have been a major error—if true.

 

[Garyspurs]

@mattdaviesmcr: I'm hearing #THFC have completed the signings of #Schneiderlin and #JayRodriguez announcement imminent.

Never heard of this guy, no previous accuracy in relation to transfers, doesn't have a significant number of twitter followers to make him reliable, but I believe him entirely.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

This could not be right:

Things are so bad at St Mary's that boss Ronald Koeman posted a picture online yesterday of an empty training ground with the words "ready for training".

One of the comments asked if Liverpool had put in a bid on the cones on the empty field...

 

[absolute bobbins]

Yeah mate, Neil Eatson and Adam Suter were having a brief convo about it earlier.

Damn

 

[Mr Pink]

@mattdaviesmcr: I'm hearing #THFC have completed the signings of #Schneiderlin and #JayRodriguez announcement imminent.

Who's this dude? lol

 

[Mr Pink]

Never heard of this guy before and he doesn't seem to work for a paper. Might be a fake account.

Doesn't matter...its clearly happening anyway lol

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Doesn't matter...its clearly happening anyway lol

Jinx.

 

[Spursidol]

I also failed to mention that the situation with Veljkovic could be really interesting. If Poch is sold on him being able to contribute, he could obviously function as backup at DM/CB which would be hugely valuable to our squad given the amount of injuries we seem to suffer at both positions.

Agreed

If we have 4 CB's (whether the existing 4 or some new) I'd very much hope he was kept at the club and played some EL and domestic cup games plus a few (maybe 6) PL games, mainly off the bench. That bith gives him experience and takes pressure off the main CB's

Think we'll end up with enough CM's so Veljkovic will not get much game time there.