The All New Spurs U21, U18 & Other Youth News Thread

npearl4spurs · Oct 8, 2014

Spursidol said:
Given the Spurs Academy's reputation over the last few years I've been surprised that there are not more of the Spurs youngsters in the England squads generally.

So yes I'd have assumed that the England u18's would include CCV, Maghoma and KWP from the defence and perhaps Loft as striker - they've got as far as KWP but seemingly either been blind or been rejected by the others.

Whilst the FA can reasonably have a go at the PL for the number of overseas players on the PL, the FA do not help themselves by the selection of players in the youth squads (which is a training ground and giving experience leading up to the main England squad).

I know it is a tall task, but is there anyway we could compile the national team set-ups our Academy youngsters have been involved in to this point? I suppose I can go back through here and gather some info just failing to remember many except the ones on the fringe of the first team right now such as the u-21s in Kane, Pritchard, Dier, and Carroll...

Spursidol · Oct 8, 2014

npearl4spurs said:
I know it is a tall task, but is there anyway we could compile the national team set-ups our Academy youngsters have been involved in to this point? I suppose I can go back through here and gather some info just failing to remember many except the ones on the fringe of the first team right now such as the u-21s in Kane, Pritchard, Dier, and Carroll...

Might need a joint think (or corrrections) with other posters but from memory these are all the call ups received by current u21's or development squad members (oldest age squad only included) who came through Spurs youth system (ie ignores Dier, Davies)

u21's
- England - Kane, Carroll, Pritchard
- Scotland - Archer
- Serbia - Veljkovic
- R of I - McEvoy

u20
- England - Ball (formerly NI u21)

u19
- England - Winks, Fredericks (now age 21)
- N. Ireland - McEneff

u18
- Japan - Goddard
- USA - Carter-Vickers (now in u23 squad)
- England - Onomah, Walker-Peters (Edit - Oduwa, Sonupe, Miller)

u17
- England - Ogilvie, Whiteman, Edwards
- Slovakia - Lesniak
- N. Ireland - McDermott, Paul

u16
- England - Amos, Maghoma (u16 camp ? - edit - full cap), Tangana, Brown, Bennetts
- Portugal - Lameiras
- Belgium - Azzaoui

Might be a few mistakes/omissions !

beats1 · Oct 9, 2014

Spursidol said:
Given the Spurs Academy's reputation over the last few years I've been surprised that there are not more of the Spurs youngsters in the England squads generally.

So yes I'd have assumed that the England u18's would include CCV, Maghoma and KWP from the defence and perhaps Loft as striker - they've got as far as KWP but seemingly either been blind or been rejected by the others.

Whilst the FA can reasonably have a go at the PL for the number of overseas players on the PL, the FA do not help themselves by the selection of players in the youth squads (which is a training ground and giving experience leading up to the main England squad).

Whilst probably the most productive academy in the last few years along with Liverpool and Southampton

We haven't got the reputation of being a top academy but looking at the players we produced we should be up. Looking at players that are currently playing in the PL we aren't doing that bad

Pl players
Bentaleb
Rose
Townsend
Kane
Mason
Caulker
Livermore

Carroll (not broken in to a PL first 11 yet)

La Liga players
Berchiche (second choice lb for Real Sociedad)

Championship players
Daniels (was at there at the start of the changes)
Dawkins (same as above)
Dervitte
Button
Maghoma
Hall
Smith (apparently going out with Amy Childs)
Fredericks (likely to be PL soon)
Pritchard (should make the setup to PL as well)

McQueen (not in the Ipswich team but made one appearance and the bench once but worth noting only 19)

Portugal
Rodrigo Defendi

Other worthy mentions Mpoku at Standard Leige, Obika and Luongo are too good for Swindon imo and should make the step up to the championship, Grant ward at Chicago fire and Calum Butcher was in around the Dundee United squad but got injured and missed a year

Danny1 · Oct 9, 2014

Im quite surprised that Fredericks hasnt been included in the latest U21 squad to be honest. He has been playing very well for Middlesbrough and yet you have the likes of Luke Garbutt from Everton who played 19 games for Colchester last year and hasn't played at all this year, and Michael Keane from Man Utd who played 13 games for Blackburn last year and can't get in the Burnley team this year.

Also even within the Middlesbrough team, Ben Gibson has made it into the U21 line up and he cant get in ahead of Fredericks....?

To be fair though it is probably watching the players in the reserves leagues and training as the young Chelsea player, Lewis Baker, is in the squad and he has yet to make a senior appearance in any league.

I look at that U21 squad and see players missing that I would have included like:

Britt Assombalonga - Eligible for both Congo & England, I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
James Ward Prowse - I would have chosen him over Lewis Baker.
Connor Wickham - I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
Steven Caulker - Still eligible for the U21, I would have chosen him over Ben Gibson, Michael Keane or Jamaal Lascelles.

spurs9 · Oct 9, 2014

Danny1 said:
Im quite surprised that Fredericks hasnt been included in the latest U21 squad to be honest. He has been playing very well for Middlesbrough and yet you have the likes of Luke Garbutt from Everton who played 19 games for Colchester last year and hasn't played at all this year, and Michael Keane from Man Utd who played 13 games for Blackburn last year and can't get in the Burnley team this year.

Also even within the Middlesbrough team, Ben Gibson has made it into the U21 line up and he cant get in ahead of Fredericks....?

To be fair though it is probably watching the players in the reserves leagues and training as the young Chelsea player, Lewis Baker, is in the squad and he has yet to make a senior appearance in any league.

I look at that U21 squad and see players missing that I would have included like:

Britt Assombalonga - Eligible for both Congo & England, I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
James Ward Prowse - I would have chosen him over Lewis Baker.
Connor Wickham - I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
Steven Caulker - Still eligible for the U21, I would have chosen him over Ben Gibson, Michael Keane or Jamaal Lascelles.

It does seem that the FA take stupid pills. Caulker isn't eligible BTW, he is 22 and will turn 23 in 2 months.

Can't believe Assombalonga isn't in the squad, especially considering Woodrow and Bamford have been picked ahead of him.

Danny1 · Oct 9, 2014

spurs9 said:
It does seem that the FA take stupid pills. Caulker isn't eligible BTW, he is 22 and will turn 23 in 2 months.

Can't believe Assombalonga isn't in the squad, especially considering Woodrow and Bamford have been picked ahead of him.

Ah cool, didn't realise he wasn't eligible, makes sense why he isn't in the squad then

I agree, I've watched Bamford a few times now and I am yet to see what the big fuss is over him, is it just that he is a Chelsea player. For me the biggest one to miss out is Ward Prowse, the guy is regular in the premiership for a team playing very well and up near the top of the league and to date has made 39 premier league appearances. Lewis Baker is a 19 year old kid who hasnt played a senior game in his entire career. I'd actually have Ward Prowse over every single midfielder in the squad.

Danny1 · Oct 9, 2014

Damn....just seen Ward Prowse is injured.....! Kind of mutes my previous post a bit ha!

spurs9 · Oct 9, 2014

Danny1 said:
Ah cool, didn't realise he wasn't eligible, makes sense why he isn't in the squad then

I agree, I've watched Bamford a few times now and I am yet to see what the big fuss is over him, is it just that he is a Chelsea player. For me the biggest one to miss out is Ward Prowse, the guy is regular in the premiership for a team playing very well and up near the top of the league and to date has made 39 premier league appearances. Lewis Baker is a 19 year old kid who hasnt played a senior game in his entire career. I'd actually have Ward Prowse over every single midfielder in the squad.

Ward-Prowse is injured and has missed the last 2 Southampton games(expected back late Nov), he is usually in the U21'squad.

wlhatwhl · Oct 9, 2014

England - Amos, Maghoma (u16 camp ?),

Christian Maghoma played for England U-16 against Nth Ireland, in the same match as Luke Amos in 2012.

Bofbro · Oct 9, 2014

spurs9 said:
It does seem that the FA take stupid pills. Caulker isn't eligible BTW, he is 22 and will turn 23 in 2 months.

Can't believe Assombalonga isn't in the squad, especially considering Woodrow and Bamford have been picked ahead of him.

Dele Alli should also be in there, the kid is outstanding.

Spursidol · Oct 9, 2014

wlhatwhl said:
England - Amos, Maghoma (u16 camp ?),

Christian Maghoma played for England U-16 against Nth Ireland, in the same match as Luke Amos in 2012.

Thanks - have amended OP

IGSpur · Oct 9, 2014

Spursidol said:
u17
- England - Ogilvie, Oduwa, Sonupe

Didn't they play for the u18s last year, while Onomah played for the u17s?

Is still mad how Pool academy still believed to be ahead of ours. When was the last time we tried to take any of their players.

Yet they took Inglethorpe. Signed Vigoroux and Stewart and also tried to sign Pritchard. Crazy. Yet our team is still stronger.

Also not such good news but our good u16s also lost 2 nil to Chelsea same weekend our u18s lost. I know we beat them in preseason but fair play if some of their players make the England squads. Highlights of our loss are up on youtube btw

Spursidol · Oct 9, 2014

IGSpur said:
Didn't they play for the u18s last year, while Onomah played for the u17s?

You're right on Oduwa and Sonupe , but couldn't see Ogilvie has played for E u18's - so I've edited OP. Onomah played last month for E u18's.

IGSpur · Oct 9, 2014

Spursidol said:
You're right on Oduwa and Sonupe , but couldn't see Ogilvie has played for E u18's - so I've edited OP. Onomah played last month for E u18's.

Must have been Miller then. Ogilvie prob would have if he wasnt injured. And forgot Onomah played against Holland earlier.

beats1 · Oct 9, 2014

Danny1 said:
Im quite surprised that Fredericks hasnt been included in the latest U21 squad to be honest. He has been playing very well for Middlesbrough and yet you have the likes of Luke Garbutt from Everton who played 19 games for Colchester last year and hasn't played at all this year, and Michael Keane from Man Utd who played 13 games for Blackburn last year and can't get in the Burnley team this year.

Also even within the Middlesbrough team, Ben Gibson has made it into the U21 line up and he cant get in ahead of Fredericks....?

To be fair though it is probably watching the players in the reserves leagues and training as the young Chelsea player, Lewis Baker, is in the squad and he has yet to make a senior appearance in any league.

I look at that U21 squad and see players missing that I would have included like:

Britt Assombalonga - Eligible for both Congo & England, I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
James Ward Prowse - I would have chosen him over Lewis Baker.
Connor Wickham - I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
Steven Caulker - Still eligible for the U21, I would have chosen him over Ben Gibson, Michael Keane or Jamaal Lascelles.

Wickham has been poor lately but agree about bamford as he hasn't been in the boro team either.

Baker, Im guessing has been chosen to be one of the leaders in the next generation.

The team for the next european championship is going to be tough since that only 3 overage players are allowed.

Berahino
Redmond Ward-Prowse Rightwing
Carroll Shelvey
Shaw Dier Stones Rightback
Butland

The issue is you don't want people in the first team of the national team in the U21's no other teams do that despite what the media claims. Its not fair on the players who got the team to the Euro's that they get pushed aside so that the big boys can come who don't need to waste their time in the U21's.

Neither spain or germany, did this when they won it, but there were players who got the occasional cap.

Rightback = Either Fredericks or Jenkinson(thats if Fredericks makes the step up to the PL)
Rightwing = One of Ince, Zaha, Pritchard or Lingaard. Or even push Ward-Prowse there and have Kane in the hole

mill · Oct 9, 2014

beats1 said:
Wickham has been poor lately but agree about bamford as he hasn't been in the boro team either.

Baker, Im guessing has been chosen to be one of the leaders in the next generation.

The team for the next european championship is going to be tough since that only 3 overage players are allowed.

Berahino
Redmond Ward-Prowse Rightwing
Carroll Shelvey
Shaw Dier Stones Rightback
Butland

The issue is you don't want people in the first team of the national team in the U21's no other teams do that despite what the media claims. Its not fair on the players who got the team to the Euro's that they get pushed aside so that the big boys can come who don't need to waste their time in the U21's.

Neither spain or germany, did this when they won it, but there were players who got the occasional cap.

Rightback = Either Fredericks or Jenkinson(thats if Fredericks makes the step up to the PL)
Rightwing = One of Ince, Zaha, Pritchard or Lingaard. Or even push Ward-Prowse there and have Kane in the hole

Both mata and Martinez played in the u21 euros despite having world cup winners medals

spurs9 · Oct 9, 2014

beats1 said:
Wickham has been poor lately but agree about bamford as he hasn't been in the boro team either.

Baker, Im guessing has been chosen to be one of the leaders in the next generation.

The team for the next european championship is going to be tough since that only 3 overage players are allowed.

Berahino
Redmond Ward-Prowse Rightwing
Carroll Shelvey
Shaw Dier Stones Rightback
Butland

The issue is you don't want people in the first team of the national team in the U21's no other teams do that despite what the media claims. Its not fair on the players who got the team to the Euro's that they get pushed aside so that the big boys can come who don't need to waste their time in the U21's.

Neither spain or germany, did this when they won it, but there were players who got the occasional cap.

Rightback = Either Fredericks or Jenkinson(thats if Fredericks makes the step up to the PL)
Rightwing = One of Ince, Zaha, Pritchard or Lingaard. Or even push Ward-Prowse there and have Kane in the hole

Redmond on the right, Berahino on left with Kane up top seems to have worked well for the U21's in the few games they have tried it.

beats1 · Oct 9, 2014

mill said:
Both mata and Martinez played in the u21 euros despite having world cup winners medals

Neither Mata or Martinez were a first team player or had much game time for spain. Martinez played in the whole run up to the Euros from 2009 to 2011. He only made his full debut at the world cup. So he is much like stones.

Mata was around the spanish squad but he is much like Stones, who I listed. He was never a starter, whereas sterling, wilshere and Barkley are first team England players.

Actually mata played more games for U21's in the season of the world cup than for spain despite going, in actual fact played double the minutes for the u21

He also played in the qualifying round

Spursidol · Oct 9, 2014

IGSpur said:
Must have been Miller then. Ogilvie prob would have if he wasnt injured. And forgot Onomah played against Holland earlier.

I missed Miller - thanks

Spursidol · Oct 9, 2014

Danny1 said:
Im quite surprised that Fredericks hasnt been included in the latest U21 squad to be honest. He has been playing very well for Middlesbrough and yet you have the likes of Luke Garbutt from Everton who played 19 games for Colchester last year and hasn't played at all this year, and Michael Keane from Man Utd who played 13 games for Blackburn last year and can't get in the Burnley team this year.

Also even within the Middlesbrough team, Ben Gibson has made it into the U21 line up and he cant get in ahead of Fredericks....?

To be fair though it is probably watching the players in the reserves leagues and training as the young Chelsea player, Lewis Baker, is in the squad and he has yet to make a senior appearance in any league.

I look at that U21 squad and see players missing that I would have included like:

Britt Assombalonga - Eligible for both Congo & England, I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
James Ward Prowse - I would have chosen him over Lewis Baker.
Connor Wickham - I would have chosen him over either Cauley Woodrow or Patrick Bamford.
Steven Caulker - Still eligible for the U21, I would have chosen him over Ben Gibson, Michael Keane or Jamaal Lascelles.

Fredericks is 22 in a couple of days time, so although he'd been playimg well at Middlesborough he may be old enough that the manager wants to have players who will be available for a year or more in the team - which will not be Ryan, and he may already be beyond the age cut off.

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