Mauricio Pochettino

thebenjamin · Jan 12, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
One - how much trust do you think the board would give Poch if he wasn't winning games ? The same as they've given every other manager as soon as fans start singing they want their tottenham back.

Two - He had the same backing and love from board and fans at Southampton for his philosophy and soon jumped ship when we came knocking.

Three - From everything I've read about Poch he's an incredibly driven and ambitious man.

Southampton sold all his good players. Not much point in staying there as he would just have to rebuild every summer.

Also if Pochettino is truly ambitious and confident in his ability he will realise that he is very young for a manager. He could spend 10 years at spurs and still only be reaching his managerial prime, and have another couple of massive dynasties afterwards.

Someone who jumps ship from a good thing at the first available offer is someone who doesn't believe he will ever get a big offer again, and has to take this one chance as it is once in a lifetime. I don't think Pochettino is that person, I think he believes in himself. If he builds something great at spurs, he'll be able to write his own cheque at any club he wants, Barcelona, Munich etc. Leaving now would be weak.

worcestersauce · Jan 12, 2016

SpursManChris said:
The project could have collapsed anyway. A team full of unhappy players who's heads were turned and wanted the hell out of there doesn't sound like much of a project to me.

Could have but didn't and wasn't going to until the new owners changed the project from football to finance leading to Cortese leaving because he could not honour the promises he made which reflected the promises made to him.
It's quite simple really the owners closed the project which led to the CEO coach and players leaving, the players didn't initiate their moves, they were told, as were their agents, they were up for sale so they acted on that.
I'm surprised you've forgotten that.

Trix · Jan 12, 2016

SpursManChris said:
Yeah, I get the message loud and clear from that quote. The promises were from Cortese. Not necessarily the owner or anyone else at the club.

My word you are determined not to be proved wrong.

MarkyP · Jan 12, 2016

Personally feel the media and the TV pundits are failing to adapt and accept things are changing. The fact is, Utd aren't as they once were. They are no longer the "force" they once were in Domestic or European football.
They carry the name, the history and the romance associated with the astonishing achievements of Fergie whilst he was there, but they AREN'T that team anymore. They aren't even a shadow of the sides Fergie coached.
The media at large, simply don't want to let go, and can't grasp the fact that not EVERY manager or player would automatically decide they want to play for Manchester United just because they came calling.
In this day and age where managers are not afford the time, the security and a clubs willingness to buy into a vision or long term plan/philosophy they may have - when a coach finds a club that does, and vice versa - as apparently MP and DL have done, its not inconceivable for him to say "no thanks" to a club on the decline (no matter how big they are/were), to stick with a club on the rise.

With on field footballing success that MP could potentially bring, I'm sure Levy will be able to deliver a Tottenham "brand" off the field as well as anything any other team in the EPL can do - which will help bridge the gap between Spurs and the likes of Utd from a commercial aspect.

Times are changing, there is a new order starting to take shape in the premier league - Manchester United are in serious danger of slipping further behind the likes of Arsenal, Man City and (hopefully) ourselves if they don't get their house in shape, and fast....
Although they will have to do it without MP... and the media had better start getting used to the idea that Man Utd just aren't the proposition they once were.

Mr Pink · Jan 12, 2016

sloth said:
I agree with you inasmuch as it's not about any objective measure by which you rate the two clubs, so much as the subjective opinion of the manager.

Utd, to most managers, is the obvious choice, it's bigger, has worldwide prestige, you'll win things there and get paid handsomely for it. But for a few the challenge is what's important, and the team and ethos you're surrounded by, and in that respect if we agree that Spurs is the greater challenge, but the fundamentals are there, and the opportunity to progress as well, and Poch believes in the people he's surrounded by, then he'll choose us over Utd. We won't know the truth though, unless he's presented with the choice.

Totally agree. And that's why I was relating the challenge here at Spurs to ambition. The foundations are now in place to push this Club on and that's something Pochettino will be very aware of IMO.

He could enhance his reputation massively by taking Spurs to the next level in the next 5-10 years. He's still a very young manager with a long career ahead.

zac · Jan 12, 2016

MarkyP said:
Personally feel the media and the TV pundits are failing to adapt and accept things are changing. The fact is, Utd aren't as they once were. They are no longer the "force" they once were in Domestic or European football.
They carry the name, the history and the romance associated with the astonishing achievements of Fergie whilst he was there, but they AREN'T that team anymore. They aren't even a shadow of the sides Fergie coached.
The media at large, simply don't want to let go, and can't grasp the fact that not EVERY manager or player would automatically decide they want to play for Manchester United just because they came calling.
In this day and age where managers are not afford the time, the security and a clubs willingness to buy into a vision or long term plan/philosophy they may have - when a coach finds a club that does, and vice versa - as apparently MP and DL have done, its not inconceivable for him to say "no thanks" to a club on the decline (no matter how big they are/were), to stick with a club on the rise.

With on field footballing success that MP could potentially bring, I'm sure Levy will be able to deliver a Tottenham "brand" off the field as well as anything any other team in the EPL can do - which will help bridge the gap between Spurs and the likes of Utd from a commercial aspect.

Times are changing, there is a new order starting to take shape in the premier league - Manchester United are in serious danger of slipping further behind the likes of Arsenal, Man City and (hopefully) ourselves if they don't get their house in shape, and fast....
Although they will have to do it without MP... and the media had better start getting used to the idea that Man Utd just aren't the proposition they once were.

Well said

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jan 12, 2016

MarkyP said:
Personally feel the media and the TV pundits are failing to adapt and accept things are changing. The fact is, Utd aren't as they once were. They are no longer the "force" they once were in Domestic or European football.
They carry the name, the history and the romance associated with the astonishing achievements of Fergie whilst he was there, but they AREN'T that team anymore. They aren't even a shadow of the sides Fergie coached.
The media at large, simply don't want to let go, and can't grasp the fact that not EVERY manager or player would automatically decide they want to play for Manchester United just because they came calling.
In this day and age where managers are not afford the time, the security and a clubs willingness to buy into a vision or long term plan/philosophy they may have - when a coach finds a club that does, and vice versa - as apparently MP and DL have done, its not inconceivable for him to say "no thanks" to a club on the decline (no matter how big they are/were), to stick with a club on the rise.

With on field footballing success that MP could potentially bring, I'm sure Levy will be able to deliver a Tottenham "brand" off the field as well as anything any other team in the EPL can do - which will help bridge the gap between Spurs and the likes of Utd from a commercial aspect.

Times are changing, there is a new order starting to take shape in the premier league - Manchester United are in serious danger of slipping further behind the likes of Arsenal, Man City and (hopefully) ourselves if they don't get their house in shape, and fast....
Although they will have to do it without MP... and the media had better start getting used to the idea that Man Utd just aren't the proposition they once were.

I don't agree with this - Man Utd will always be a huge pull for any player or manager for one simple reason - money. They will never slip that far behind the other top teams for very long because they will always have money to throw at the problem until they get out of it. Money to attract the best players and best managers along with being one of the best supported clubs in the world means any lull in their success is just that, a lull and it won't be long before everything comes together and they are back challenging.

However, saying all that I don't for a second believe we are in danger of losing our manager to them. He seems committed to seeing the project through. Maybe if we get to a point after 5 years where he feels we have hit a glass ceiling he might leave but right now I believe Poch will take pride in developing this talented squad and seeing where he can take them rather than jumping ship at the first opportunity.

rawhide · Jan 12, 2016

jezz said:
I reckon Poch's starting these rumours to get a sneaky pay rise
Well played I say

Wait, don't you get linked to Spurs to get a new contract with a big pay rise?

MarkyP · Jan 12, 2016

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
I don't agree with this - Man Utd will always be a huge pull for any player or manager for one simple reason - money. They will never slip that far behind the other top teams for very long because they will always have money to throw at the problem until they get out of it. Money to attract the best players and best managers along with being one of the best supported clubs in the world means any lull in their success is just that, a lull and it won't be long before everything comes together and they are back challenging.

They've been throwing money at the problem since Fergie left.... lots and lots of money.

Agree. They wont get MP. Pep is going to City by the sounds of it. Ancelotti said "no" apparently before opting for Bayern. And since Fergie they have had Moyes and LVG as managers.. so hardly attracting the "best" managers.....
Best players? would any of the worlds top players choose Man Utd now over the likes of City/Arsenal or any of the worlds other top clubs right now..? doubtful..

Trix · Jan 12, 2016

Mr Pink said:
Totally agree. And that's why I was relating the challenge here at Spurs to ambition. The foundations are now in place to push this Club on and that's something Pochettino will be very aware of IMO.

He could enhance his reputation massively by taking Spurs to the next level in the next 5-10 years. He's still a very young manager with a long career ahead.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/25/tottenham-mauricio-pochettino-respect-arsene-wenger

“Tottenham, for me, is a big job and it’s a dream to stay here like him [Wenger], to have the time [at Tottenham] that Arsène has had at Arsenal,” Pochettino said.

http://www.footballfancast.com/foot...-long-term-tottenham-plan#TsI0WQvAgW4hJMay.97

“It is our dream to grow with these players and to be clever. And every season to add some young players to refresh the team and maintain the motivation,”
“Here, we have a plan. It is important to set up all the bases, to arrive at the new stadium and build a strong squad.

“It is true that football is about winning games – but you have different ways to try to win games, win titles and achieve big things. The important thing is to be clear what your plan is.”

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jan 12, 2016

MarkyP said:
They've been throwing money at the problem since Fergie left.... lots and lots of money.

Agree. They wont get MP. Pep is going to City by the sounds of it. Ancelotti said "no" apparently before opting for Bayern. And since Fergie they have had Moyes and LVG as managers.. so hardly attracting the "best" managers.....
Best players? would any of the worlds top players choose Man Utd now over the likes of City/Arsenal or any of the worlds other top clubs right now..? doubtful..

And they can keep throwing money at the problem..we can't compete with them on wages or prestige...and lets be honest most players will always move to a club that will offer bigger wages. They simply won't fall away, that is not how football works.

If a club like ours makes as many bad decisions as them then it would be more dangerous as we just don't have the resources to keep throwing money at the problem to recover. So we would end up slipping behind the other top teams for longer. But I guarantee within the next 4-5 years Man U will be challenging for the league again. Money talks.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

worcestersauce said:
Could have but didn't and wasn't going to until the new owners changed the project from football to finance leading to Cortese leaving because he could not honour the promises he made which reflected the promises made to him.
It's quite simple really the owners closed the project which led to the CEO coach and players leaving, the players didn't initiate their moves, they were told, as were their agents, they were up for sale so they acted on that.
I'm surprised you've forgotten that.

But aren't you assuming that the players wouldn't have left anyway? Do you really think that Lallana's and Lovren's heads wouldn't have been turned by the very promising Liverpool? Luke Shaw by United? Just because Cortese remained as chairman? I doubt it, what was Cortese, best mates with all of the players?

tommyt · Jan 12, 2016

SpursManChris said:
Tremendous post, full of optimism but it does contain a few assumed facts and other things so I'll pick you up on some:

You can't put "fired" into it. He resigned, that's a fact. And a club is much bigger than its chairman. Poch could have chosen to show loyalty to the part of the club which is immeasurably bigger than any one person or group (including the players) at the entire club; the fans. However, the player sales would have been a major blow, I'll agree there.
However, how good would his team have been in the following season full of unhappy players
who's heads were turned? Which brings me onto my next point:

Do you honestly believe that he wouldn't have come to us anyway, if they didn't sell the players? Like I said, their heads would've been turned the following season. What manager would want to work with that if they had an easy get out, transferring to a bigger and better club? And how do we know we won't have that problem? If we fail to make top 4 and players want out the door, then what? Well we know what Levy does with unhappy players,
he sells them and so he should. Then what? Poch will 'chuck' a Southampton?

When did I say it can't?

Great sentiment, but do you have some sort of insight into Poch's mind?

Actually, I have NO idea of what the "rightful pecking order of the PL"
is mostly because I've no idea what you mean by that. Can you expand?

I love that sentence.

Things are great at the minute at our club and I really admire your optimism. But I do want to caution people from thinking it will last forever. We've been through great times before but has it lasted forever? I would've thought us more than any fans would've learnt our lesson by now. We get so used to things being at such a high level and we'll get more and more used to Poch and that's why it will be terrible if he left.
I think my point is best summarised as 'Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.' It will only hurt more if you don't.

While I am no psychoanalyst, I think that your presumption that all Utd have to do is flash their knickers and Poch will come running says more about you than anything else.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

Trix said:
My word you are determined not to be proved wrong.

That's because I'm right. The promises were from Cortese. Am I wrong?

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

MarkyP said:
when a coach finds a club that does, and vice versa - as apparently MP and DL have done, its not inconceivable for him to say "no thanks" to a club on the decline (no matter how big they are/were), to stick with a club on the rise.

That's a nice thought but I'd say that absolutely EVERYTHING hinges on whether or not the players remain content. If players go Poch could go. This will only be in question if we don't get top 4.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

tommyt said:
While I am no psychoanalyst, I think that your presumption that all Utd have to do is flash their knickers and Poch will come running says more about you than anything else.

You know, I double checked my post which you quoted and I'll be damned, "United" or "Utd" wasn't mentioned. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe you meant to quote someone else.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

sloth said:
Utd, to most managers, is the obvious choice, it's bigger, has worldwide prestige, you'll win things there and get paid handsomely for it.

Tell that to David Moyes and Louis Van Gaal.

sloth · Jan 12, 2016

SpursManChris said:
That's a nice thought but I'd say that absolutely EVERYTHING hinges on whether or not the players remain content. If players go Poch could go. This will only be in question if we don't get top 4.

I think the general point is that according to his own words, what makes Poch happy is not as straight forward as managing the biggest club possible for the most amount of money, but rather the environment, the management team, the unity of vision, and the potential for growth. As well as presumably a decent salary. Of course if those things disappear then so might he.

In terms of the argument I can see people are making, some were using the fact he left Southampton as evidence that when a bigger club comes calling he'll jump ship, but as far as I can see he left because the things he valued while he was there disappeared, and so, so did he.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

sloth said:
I think the general point is that according to his own words, what makes Poch happy is not as straight forward as managing the biggest club possible for the most amount of money, but rather the environment, the management team, the unity of vision, and the potential for growth.

Where's that from?

In terms of the argument I can see people are making, some were using the fact he left Southampton as evidence that when a bigger club comes calling he'll jump ship, but as far as I can see he left because the things he valued while he was there disappeared, and so, so did he.

Yeah, the players disappeared, I'd say fair enough that he jumped ship. But my guess is he would've jumped ship regardless if the players were forced to stay and maybe even if Cortese had stayed. I wonder if we could so easily excuse his 'disloyalty' if that was the situation.

SpursManChris · Jan 12, 2016

MarkyP said:
And since Fergie they have had Moyes and LVG as managers.. so hardly attracting the "best" managers.....

I'm not quite sure how you can shove LVG in the same boat as fucking Moyesie! Nor can I see how you don't think Utd attracted one of the "best" managers in him. I mean I know he's dog shit at the moment, but bloody hell, be fair; the man had a managerial career long before Utd.

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