Liverpool Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

poch deserves to take the blame for this 1. Can't play a high line like that against them, sometimes you have to respect the opp and not just the way he wants us to play.

Matty miller said:

poch deserves to take the blame for this 1. Can't play a high line like that against them, sometimes you have to respect the opp and not just the way he wants us to play.

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Had Verts and Rose been there I think we could have gone for it, but I said before the game that I didn't think we could go there and win with the injuries we have.

When you don't have the players to go all out then you have to be pragmatic and change the approach, particularly when you know the counter attack works against Liverpool.

But this stems mostly from a longer term problem in that Poch doesn't seem to trust Wimmer and there are questions over Davies' suitability as a wing back.

Jamturk said:

Last thoughts about the game

Dembele. Done 2/3 pieces of magic that was absolutely sublime.

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And naff all else. Thought him fucking about with the ball created more harm than good. We know he's got the showboat FIFA Street skills. But there's a reason the Harlem Globetrotters don't play in the NBA

WiganSpur said:

Had Verts and Rose been there I think we could have gone for it, but I said before the game that I didn't think we could go there and win with the injuries we have.

When you don't have the players to go all out then you have to be pragmatic and change the approach, particularly when you know the counter attack works against Liverpool.

But this stems mostly from a longer term problem in that Poch doesn't seem to trust Wimmer and there are questions over Davies' suitability as a wing back.

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Yeah i agree.

There is no doubt in my mind that had we played 3 ATB with rose and walker playing as wing backs we wouldn't have lost.

Our defence bunched together and made it so much easier for liverpool to press us.

-Afri-Coy- said:

Moussa Sissoko - 928 Total minutes in all competitions, 22 total appearances, 0 goals and 4 assists
Georges-Kevin N'Koudou - 283 Total minutes in all competitions, 12 total appearances, 0 goals and 1 assist

Sissoko has had almost 4 times the amount of real game time as GKN, as well as over 15 more appearances in the PL than GKN. Your argument was that they have both shown little to prove they deserve that substitution, however you can't make that assumption when GKN has had a quarter of the time to show what he can do. If they had the same amount of game time I'd completely agree with you.

Regardless of that, His actual attributes are completely different from Sissoko's and Sissoko has EPL experience, which GKN does not. So by those means, I don't think Sissoko has any more reason to be on the pitch than GKN. He hasn't shown anything to prove he will come off the bench and change a game. On attributes alone, when the pitch is narrow and we can't find width, a winger like GKN could come on and make space for the game changers to do their thing. Sissoko just drifts around the pitch aimlessly. Bar the Man City game I haven't seen anything special from Sissoko.

I didn't swear to offend anyone and if you took offense I apologize for that, but you are making a baseless argument that both haven't shown enough to warrant a place, and that simply can't be true if GKN has only had 5 EPL appearances with barely 7 minutes in each.

Only world class players can make an impact in such a little amount of time, this kid is 21 years old. Sissoko has had enough time to make a real impact, and he simply hasn't. Therefore its time we give another player a real opportunity, and GKN deserves that.

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No problem mate, we are mutual in our disgust with how we lost yesterday. Sissoko has had game time likely due to his fee, wages and reputation but he has been found out. He is only getting on the pitch at the moment because there are no better alternatives including N'Koudo, also the tea lady is occupied. I know you are probably going to say N'Koudou should be ahead of Sissoko, but no one will argue that Andy Booth, Gregor Rasiak, Gilberto, Toda, Pletikosa needed more game time (not suggesting N'Koudo is as bad as those by the way). Trust what the manager can see week in week out (though his setup was wrong yesterday).

The most depressing aspect for me wasn't getting the set up wrong but the complete inability to make any change during the game. I felt sure that after a 15 min opportunity at HT to speak to the players we would see a different Spurs in the second half but it was more of the same in terms of personnel and tactics and that is extremely worrying.

Still Poch is young and has proved that he learns from his mistakes so hopefully this error will accrue long term benefit.

How many of you are really that surprised that we got turned over yesterday...? Time after time when this teams has had a question asked of it, it has failed to answer it. When it really matters the THFC of old rears it's ugly head, no wonder everyone calls us chokers. This team MUST go all out to win a cup this season now, no more BS excuses , just go for it ffs as we are not winning the league any time soon with our fragile mindset......

Indacupfortottenham said:

We've lost 3 games in the league all season to put things into perspective. That's good going, would have been nice not to, but no disgrace to lose at those 3 grounds either.
Title is out of reach now I think, but at least we were involved again - that's twice in two seasons. and twice in my time supporting the club.
Think this team will only get better and be involved again next year. But now it's all about the battle for top four and the cups.

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Being involved means still being within touching distance of it with a few games to go NOT 9 points, 12 by end of today possibly, behind with a third of the season still to go ffs.
Some of you lot are so easily pleased, no wonder our club has a losers mentality. We are that kid in school who came last in the 100m sprint on sports day but gets a pat on the back for at least reaching the final......

sunnydelight786 said:

How many of you are really that surprised that we got turned over yesterday...? Time after time when this teams has had a question asked of it, it has failed to answer it. When it really matters the THFC of old rears it's ugly head, no wonder everyone calls us chokers. This team MUST go all out to win a cup this season now, no more BS excuses , just go for it ffs as we are not winning the league any time soon with our fragile mindset......

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not sure i would back us in a final either to be fair with their mentality.

Bulletspur said:

People like you keep harping on about price tag. Who would you buy who would want to come to us? You sound like a Manu fan with a false sense of entitlement.

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It isn't harping. It's called analysing what we have and realising what we have offer us no value and reap us no benefit to the tune of 50m. Poch is reluctant to use them, that is damning.

If I knew who we would buy then I'd be the Head of Recruitment at spurs. It isn't my job to know who to buy but one thing is for sure, it doesn't take a scientist to know that we spunked the cash up against a wall when we can't afford to.

I look at Southampton and envy how they recruit. Yes there may be one or two duds but not 50m worth of duds. They recognise their limits and they really delve into what competencies and skill set they require then go out and get that. Yet we go out and scramble on deadline day for a 30m player who even now isn't and never will be in the first team

UbeAstard said:

No problem mate, we are mutual in our disgust with how we lost yesterday. Sissoko has had game time likely due to his fee, wages and reputation but he has been found out. He is only getting on the pitch at the moment because there are no better alternatives including N'Koudo, also the tea lady is occupied. I know you are probably going to say N'Koudou should be ahead of Sissoko, but no one will argue that Andy Booth, Gregor Rasiak, Gilberto, Toda, Pletikosa needed more game time (not suggesting N'Koudo is as bad as those by the way). Trust what the manager can see week in week out (though his setup was wrong yesterday).

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It's not even about pecking order as such, our subs should be used situationally and for me Poch got it horribly wrong yesterday. Even if he brought Sissoko on, why not GKN instead of Janssen? We needed pace and width, and Poch did nothing to bring about that change. And it also boils down to time on the pitch, I reckon given the chance GKN will prove to be a much more valuable sub than Sissoko, and like wise in other situations, Sissoko will be the better fit than GKN. But we will never know unless the kid is given his chance and time to show what he can do too, which Sissoko has been given up until now.

This is not an argument, it's just two like minded supporters having a discussion about a tragic game we've had. I hope in the future GKN is given a proper run to see what he is capable of.

The tone was set after 5 minutes when wanyama played a sideways pass that didn't make it to the intended target and liverpool countered. It was appallingly naive from poch and some of the players too.

Pretty simple to me, we haven't played convincingly since reverting back to this formation, I don't think the players enjoy playing that system and I remember seeing them say about how the other system gave more freedom to their play.

That much is evident considering when we played it we scored over a dozen goals in less than 4 games.

Problem is, the second Poch loses players to injuries he reverts to type and quite frankly it seems like he panics, we didn't even look prepared yesterday, it seemed like more of a "I hope this works even though it hasn't before."

In other words, I don't think he had an answer for the way Liverpool play, which is a scary thought considering teams below us have.

Poch is stuck to his philosophy and I understand that but sometimes you have to make an exception, I can't help but think our a away record against teams in the top 6 would be much better if he would understand that.

Poch got it ALL wrong.

It's great that he has faith in the back up players, but the reality is, we didn't have the personel to play the way we did. With Rose, Verts and Lamela in that team, yes, absolutely Poch, have a go at them - go toe to toe - see how we do. But Ben Davies coming up against Mane without Lamela's defensive contribution in front of him, our left flank was far, far too open.

Everyone knew it and when the line-up came in many people were able to call the game exactly right.

Poch's the best manager in my life-time and I love that he has faith in the squad, but it's important he learns a lesson - if nothing else, he's seen, as we all have, where our weakness lies. I like Ben Davies, but against Liverpool the weakness of his game was exposed. He should never have been put in the position he was last night and that lies with Poch.

Certainly, I for one think it's about time GKN got some real game time. He was the obvious replacement for Son yesterday at HT - at least to give Mane the headache of a player who could match him for pace - in fact, in all reality, if ever there was a time for him to make his full league debut, it was yesterday. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Onwards and upwards though - we'll most likely finish the weekend in third place and I fully expect a huge reaction - this result might spur us on for the rest of the season. If we can go unbeaten, we'll tie up a top four place comfortably.

Good Doctor M said:

Poch got it ALL wrong.

It's great that he has faith in the back up players, but the reality is, we didn't have the personel to play the way we did. With Rose, Verts and Lamela in that team, yes, absolutely Poch, have a go at them - go toe to toe - see how we do. But Ben Davies coming up against Mane without Lamela's defensive contribution in front of him, our left flank was far, far too open.

Everyone knew it and when the line-up came in many people were able to call the game exactly right.

Poch's the best manager in my life-time and I love that he has faith in the squad, but it's important he learns a lesson - if nothing else, he's seen, as we all have, where our weakness lies. I like Ben Davies, but against Liverpool the weakness of his game was exposed. He should never have been put in the position he was last night and that lies with Poch.

Certainly, I for one think it's about time GKN got some real game time. He was the obvious replacement for Son yesterday at HT - at least to give Mane the headache of a player who could match him for pace - in fact, in all reality, if ever there was a time for him to make his full league debut, it was yesterday. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Onwards and upwards though - we'll most likely finish the weekend in third place and I fully expect a huge reaction - this result might spur us on for the rest of the season. If we can go unbeaten, we'll tie up a top four place comfortably.

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I have a feeling it will do the opposite, seeing how we downed tools after the title was gone last season and then with Poch coming out yesterday criticising everybody but himself and knowing we have such a thin squad just makes me think it's going to be rough.

Teams also work a lot harder at the back end of the season in the bottom half and we essentially have nothing but bottom half teams to play, we couldn't even put a single goal past Sunderland.

That's the most frustrating thing for me, if we would have beaten Sunderland and Pool we would be 3 points behind Chelsea now.

I don't know mate, I think it's going to be a rough end to the season for us, only two points seperating us from being in 6th, if we drop out of the top four and have to play catch up I can't see us making it in there again.

Would be a disaster of a season if we ended up outside the top four and without a trophy considering our run of form over the Christmas period.

But sadly, I can see it happening and the reason I do is because of how we ended last season and games like yesterday.

We can't win every game.

Anfield with this Liverpool team is always going to be one of the toughest fixtures we have so I think the amount of negativity we see in the post match is a bit too much.

We aren't a side that is used to sitting back and soaking up pressure. You, or we, the spectators, find it all too easy to say, oh just sit back and play like Hull do and nick a win. You can't just turn that kind of mentality on. We don't have the defensive personnel and we certainly don't have the lone attacker or attackers up front with ridiculous pace and hope they can fashion a chance out of a hopeful clearance.

Come on guy, let's look forward to the next game. Way too much poch bashing this weekend.

DIEHARD said:

It isn't harping. It's called analysing what we have and realising what we have offer us no value and reap us no benefit to the tune of 50m. Poch is reluctant to use them, that is damning.

If I knew who we would buy then I'd be the Head of Recruitment at spurs. It isn't my job to know who to buy but one thing is for sure, it doesn't take a scientist to know that we spunked the cash up against a wall when we can't afford to.

I look at Southampton and envy how they recruit. Yes there may be one or two duds but not 50m worth of duds. They recognise their limits and they really delve into what competencies and skill set they require then go out and get that. Yet we go out and scramble on deadline day for a 30m player who even now isn't and never will be in the first team

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Agreed. Their January signing, Gabbiadini has just bagged two yesterday

Romulus said:

not sure i would back us in a final either to be fair with their mentality.

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Lol I knew before checking who hated rated your post doh

Im sure its the fans fault for their spursy mentality and the reason that the team keeps on failing

It was very frustrating to watch yesterday and I agree that the majority of us could see what we're gonna be the problems were going to be before the game, but do some of you really think poch didn't see the same?? Of course he would have, the coaching team are far more knowledgeable and informed than the most of us, that's not a dig at anyone on here, it's simply a fact.
No matter how, over last week, they trained to combat the potential problems it just didn't work and sometimes that happens, no matter what you do.
For everyone going on about giving others a try etc etc, let's have it right a second, our management team see these individuals every single day. They see who can do what, who has what skills, who will step up, will falter, will improve and will stagnate. To suggest that we should have used him or her yesterday is just clutching at straws to have an excuse for yesterday's performance. The cold hard facts yesterday were the players were poor.
I am not suggesting that tactics were spot on by any means, but no tactics can sort out a bad day at the office. If anyone can convince me a single player that yesterday played to their full potential I will be shocked. No formations or tactics can stop a player miss controlling, not passing a simple 3 yard ball or simply not being at the races. The EXACT same thing happened away at city and United. The players let the occasion get the better of them again. For me this is where we lack an old head. These games are where someone who has been there and done it, who can grab players and get them to get their head in the right place comes in. The problem is is this isn't the poch way. So one of two things will happen. Either poch changes slightly or we will continue to suffer until the players in this team mature to their 30ish, problem is, if they havent won anything in that time will they still be here?
We have to accept that we are punching well above our weight at the moment and times like yesterday will happen. There is no rhyme or reason sometimes and we as fans have to suck it up and move on.
There is no better manager for us out there right now, in terms of using his limited facilities whilst we are under constraints and we are going to get a few dud players due to said constraints. Let's not get carried away with things and let this team continue to mature over the next couple of seasons and go from there times are bright for us in every aspect.

Hazardousman said:

I have a feeling it will do the opposite, seeing how we downed tools after the title was gone last season and then with Poch coming out yesterday criticising everybody but himself and knowing we have such a thin squad just makes me think it's going to be rough.

Teams also work a lot harder at the back end of the season in the bottom half and we essentially have nothing but bottom half teams to play, we couldn't even put a single goal past Sunderland.

That's the most frustrating thing for me, if we would have beaten Sunderland and Pool we would be 3 points behind Chelsea now.

I don't know mate, I think it's going to be a rough end to the season for us, only two points seperating us from being in 6th, if we drop out of the top four and have to play catch up I can't see us making it in there again.

Would be a disaster of a season if we ended up outside the top four and without a trophy considering our run of form over the Christmas period.

But sadly, I can see it happening and the reason I do is because of how we ended last season and games like yesterday.

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I think maybe you're being a little too hard. Yes, we fucked the title away last season and yes, that result was disappointing, but c'mon. We've lost 3 times in the league - THREE - and it's Febuary. If offered that at the start of the season, I'd have bitten your hand off.

This team, squad and Poch, deserve a little better from the fans imo, in so far as what they've achieved. We are incredibly difficult to beat - and have been outplayed twice all season - every other game we should have or have won. I've still got as much faith in a Top 4 finish as I did this time yesterday.

I get where you're coming from, but we're still the best team in the league after Chelsea, one poor result and performance doesn't change that for me. Arsenal lost to Watford last week, Liverpool to Hull - we lost at Anfield and some of us are taking it worse that the Scousers and Arse-holes did their results last week.

Chin up man, still in two cups with extremely winnable games and still, at this moment in time sitting in 2nd (it'll most likely be 3rd come later on, but still). Still unbeaten at home and in our final season at the Lane.

We're in a good place - one loss doesn't mean the world is going to fall in around us.