Jermaine Jenas

johno · Nov 12, 2007

all im saying, is lets see if he performs in a big, tough, london derby, AWAY from home against the spammers. unfortunately id bet good money he'll be pretty much anonymous.

it's been the same since he's arrived at WHL so why should i expect anything different? it's all well and good playing well against wigan, however stand up and be counted when we need you JJ - that's when you'll convert me into rating you, to saying your a top midfielder.

Bus-Conductor · Nov 12, 2007

SpurSince57 said:
Can't disagree with that too much, B-C. Maybe we don't have the ideal partner for him, but I think a lot of the problem is simple self-belief; Jol clearly regarded him as our most important CM once Carrick was gone, and I think Legend's right in believing that Ramos has come to the same conclusion. Which doesn't mean that I don't find him very frustrating at times (and I could say the same of most of his team-mates). However, some of the rubbishing he gets is pretty unbelievable.

I couldn't understand why he wasn't handed the captain's armband when Keane went off. It shouldn't be a matter of seniority. Robinson could be Cech and it would still be ridiculous.

I thought the same at the game. i actually thought he was walking over to jenas. Personally I think giving Jenas the captains armband whenever he plays might even strengthen him mentally. Either way,like you, I hate seeing keepers given the armband and especially Robinson.

davros · Nov 12, 2007

Bus-Conductor said:
I thought the same at the game. i actually thought he was walking over to jenas. Personally I think giving Jenas the captains armband whenever he plays might even strengthen him mentally. Either way,like you, I hate seeing keepers given the armband and especially Robinson.

I agree with you. Jenas is probably our most effective midfielder adn he seems to have so much potential. Maybe extra responsibility would force him to take more control of games. I don't think forwards or keepers are ideal captains, although there are probably some exceptions.

barry · Nov 12, 2007

Legend10 said:
Out of interest what would you say were JJ's strengths and weakness's?

How would you use him and who would you say is his ideal midfield partner? And why?

JJ's strenghts are his pace, and stamina. His weaknesses are his footballing abilities (brain, technique etc).

I would use him on the bench or in the olympics as a marathon runner for team GB.

Ideal midfield partner???? Andy Reid, or Paula Raddcliff.

barry · Nov 12, 2007

davros said:
I agree with you. Jenas is probably our most effective midfielder adn he seems to have so much potential. Maybe extra responsibility would force him to take more control of games. I don't think forwards or keepers are ideal captains, although there are probably some exceptions.

The problem with JJ is he never turns potential into end product. He's 24/25 now and I don't think he's improved one jot at the club.
JJ is the acid test. Is he really an enigma, or is Jol just a shit coach. That's something I'd like to know

Rocksuperstar · Nov 12, 2007

inconsistent.

Good game yesterday, did a lot of running from what i saw on the highlights and heard on the wireless, but i can't help but expect him to go missing next game out :shrug:

I don't mean to take anything from yesterdays performance, but we've seen it before - one game MotM contender, the next he may well have been better served dishing out pies at half time.

fingers crossed though :up:

Legend10 · Nov 12, 2007

Bus-Conductor said:
I disagree a little with you here L10. Jenas's biggest weakness is that he doesn't have the mentality that backs his ability. His performance today was of the highest quality. He was tireless. He broke up their moves and stole the ball. He tackled and harrassed. I was particulrly impressed with the way he charged past everybody to be on the line to tap in the first goal and he took his second like a striker. If that was the first time you'd seen jenas you would think he was one of the top 3 CM's in the country. And he has the potential to be easily. He is the nearest thing I've seen to Viera. And he did it today with one of those partners that you think hinder him. What hinders him is he he isn't always mentally strong enough to impose his "A" game.

Someone started a thread before the season kicked off saying what are we looking for from certain players this year and I said that I wanted Jenas to come of age. I thought the way he finished last season was outstanding - almost single handedly dragging us into 5th at times. And I thought that he start with a more mature belief in his own ability. I keep seeing occasional performances like today and thinking if only he played like this most weeks and especially away from home he could be one of the prems top 3. But he doesn't and it's a fucking shame. I still like him and even on a less than 100% day he's still an important player for us who gets unfairly slated very often by idiots that don't really understand football and the realities of our situation.

We're going to disagree on this BC., I don't buy into this JJ's mentality is his problem.

I can't see how anybody who doesn't have a strong mentality for the game instantly becomes a success in the Prem at just 18 and making himself just about undropable in the process. Young player of the year at 19, England debut bang on his 20th birthday and captain of Newcastle by 21.

Those aren't facts that point to a lad who is devoid of mental strength.

For me mental strength isn't the issue it really is his partners. People talk abot Vieira, Gerrard, Lampard etc etc but just look at the partners they've had playing alongside them, do any of them compare with what Jenas has had to partner him since Carrick left? They all play or played with top draw players, JJ without offence has played with Zokora, Hudd and TT none of whom in my opinion (despite Hudds passing ability) are anywhere near top draw and are lower half prem players at best.

Ramos I am certain is going to get the best out of JJ and personally if the Ramos only rates 6 gossip is true then I am certain JJ is 1 of them. I fully expect Ramos to get him a class of partner that he needs and then we will really see what JJ can do.

batigol · Nov 12, 2007

Agreed. He was great yesterday but he need to be alot more consistent. Just people like to point out this great performance as a reminder that we forget all about how good we can be, I'll like to point to matches like the Newcastle one where he was a complete pedestrian.

People criticise him so much for the simple fact that he can be so much more than he is but he just doesn't seem to have the passion, determination, ambition or whatever quality it is that separates a Lampard from a Jenas. Lampard is the perfect example. Before Chelsea, he was an average midfielder with no outstanding qualities but hard work and determination with top class coaching resulted in a world-class midfielder. He overachieved and JJ is the perennial under-achiever. So until JJ reduces the frequency of bad patches like Newcastle, and Sunderland (he basically did nothing noteworthy in other matches too), and increase the number of Wigan-like performances then there will always be criticism of him.

And comments about him being the best midfielder is wide off the mark for this season for sure. Malbranque has been our best midfielder in view of his overall contributions of industry, creativity, and even goals. JJ is POTENTIALLY the best. That is a more accurate description of him IMO. Its all packed in that small yet-to-be opened bag and until it is opened, I don't think he deserves any best tags yet. Even in our mediocre midfield.

Legend10 · Nov 12, 2007

batigol said:
Agreed. He was great yesterday but he need to be alot more consistent. Just people like to point out this great performance as a reminder that we forget all about how good we can be, I'll like to point to matches like the Newcastle one where he was a complete pedestrian.

People criticise him so much for the simple fact that he can be so much more than he is but he just doesn't seem to have the passion, determination, ambition or whatever quality it is that separates a Lampard from a Jenas. Lampard is the perfect example. Before Chelsea, he was an average midfielder with no outstanding qualities but hard work and determination with top class coaching resulted in a world-class midfielder. He overachieved and JJ is the perennial under-achiever. So until JJ reduces the frequency of bad patches like Newcastle, and Sunderland (he basically did nothing noteworthy in other matches too), and increase the number of Wigan-like performances then there will always be criticism of him.

And comments about him being the best midfielder is wide off the mark for this season for sure. Malbranque has been our best midfielder in view of his overall contributions of industry, creativity, and even goals. JJ is POTENTIALLY the best. That is a more accurate description of him IMO. Its all packed in that small yet-to-be opened bag and until it is opened, I don't think he deserves any best tags yet. Even in our mediocre midfield.

Put Lampard in our team and play him in a 442 alongside Zokora, Hudd or TT and see what happens, I tell you now we would slate the shit out of him and he wouldn't do as good a job as what JJ does.

yiddotilidie · Nov 12, 2007

liberty said:
Yes but if you watched him (hard on TV as you are only concentrated on the action area and no movement around it) you’d realise that his running is purposeful. Either covering in defence or trying to create space forwards when our defence have the ball.

You are spot on with having no options either side of him. No one sprinting up the wing – usually his only options are sideways or an impossible ball forwards which is inevitably telegraphed.

Liberty you are spot on. I get bored of defending JJ now, especially to muppets who have prob never played the game and simply dont understand how important he is to us.

he is carrying Zokora, who isnt good enough.

ethanedwards · Nov 12, 2007

barry said:
The problem with JJ is he never turns potential into end product. He's 24/25 now and I don't think he's improved one jot at the club.
JJ is the acid test. Is he really an enigma, or is Jol just a shit coach. That's something I'd like to know

Good question, IMHO some younger players had gone backwards in their development, or lacked confidence. Perhaps this would be better judged at the end of the season.

SpurSince57 · Nov 12, 2007

Apparently his missus had a baby daughter last week. That seems to have crept under everyone's radar.

michaelden · Nov 12, 2007

Maybe making JJ the captain would get him to grow more

It worked for Gerard

SouthLondonSpur · Nov 12, 2007

michaelden said:
Maybe making JJ the captain would get him to grow more

It worked for Gerard

And he's well 'ard.....

The Apprentice · Nov 12, 2007

Only9 more games until another good performance then.

worcestersauce · Nov 12, 2007

For his second goal yesterday where he ran onto the pass from Berbatov who passed it from his own half.
Was it not Jenas that passed it to Berba from just outside our own box in the first place.
That's some one-two, give outside our box and receive outside their box.
And let's be fair if Fabrigas had done that and taken it round the goaly then placed it in the net with such confidence they'd still be showing it all over Sky and it would take up three pages in the Mirror.

Credit where it's due!

edit: Except that Fabrigas couldn't have done that.
edit 2: Just checked the Mirror and all it says is berba reverse pass set him up, no mention of any 60 run to receive the pass.

barry · Nov 12, 2007

Legend10 said:
We're going to disagree on this BC., I don't buy into this JJ's mentality is his problem.

I can't see how anybody who doesn't have a strong mentality for the game instantly becomes a success in the Prem at just 18 and making himself just about undropable in the process. Young player of the year at 19, England debut bang on his 20th birthday and captain of Newcastle by 21.

Those aren't facts that point to a lad who is devoid of mental strength.

For me mental strength isn't the issue it really is his partners. People talk abot Vieira, Gerrard, Lampard etc etc but just look at the partners they've had playing alongside them, do any of them compare with what Jenas has had to partner him since Carrick left? They all play or played with top draw players, JJ without offence has played with Zokora, Hudd and TT none of whom in my opinion (despite Hudds passing ability) are anywhere near top draw and are lower half prem players at best.

Ramos I am certain is going to get the best out of JJ and personally if the Ramos only rates 6 gossip is true then I am certain JJ is 1 of them. I fully expect Ramos to get him a class of partner that he needs and then we will really see what JJ can do.

I gonna have to disagree with you here Liberty. I actually think it's the other way around. If we had a better AMF our other CM's would be better.
BTW why was Jenas shit and inconsistent when Carrick was here?
Why do the media bash him? Why was he shit at Newcastle?

Stoof · Nov 12, 2007

SpurSince57 said:
Apparently his missus had a baby daughter last week. That seems to have crept under everyone's radar.

I assumed it must have been something like that - considering the goal celebrations.

Top week for him, really. JJ has the ability, I don't think anyone can doubt that, his running has never been in doubt and is most definitely purposeful - and he will always score us goals (8 last year??). I'd just love him to keep it up, and would love to see him next to an Alonso, Eukelele or Carrick (again). There's a reason that both of them played themselves into the England squad (MC and JJ) and it's because they were perfect foils for each other.

DZ is not an MC. DZ is DZ and is getting better, and he sat really well yesterday. His positioning has come on leaps and bounds, and his pressing was much better. A poor side in Wigan, but hey you can only beat what's put in front of you. :up:

Legend10 · Nov 12, 2007

barry said:
I gonna have to disagree with you here Liberty. I actually think it's the other way around. If we had a better AMF our other CM's would be better.
BTW why was Jenas shit and inconsistent when Carrick was here?
Why do the media bash him? Why was he shit at Newcastle?

You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect that but I think that wrong in every single point that you make and you haven't backed any of it up with worthwhile reasoning which I have tried to do in this thread and the Mackay & Jenas thread.

If you think our other CM's would be better alongside a better AMF player that's fine but I'm not sure how that player would improve Hudd's lack of mobility, the tenacious but limited TT and the lacking in every departmnent for a top premiership player Zokora. Would you say that any of those 3 have ever been good enough to play for England?

I'm sorry but I don't think that for 1 minute JJ was shit and inconsistent alongside Carrick, I thought they were an excellent combination.

The media I take no notice of at all.

And finally if JJ was so shit at Newcastle why was he in the England squad at just 19, young player of the year at 19, England debut in the month of his 20th birthday and captain of one of Englands biggest clubs at 21, not too mention just about the 1st name on the teamsheet for each manager he played for there and absolutely loved by Bobby Robson who isn't the worst judge of a player I've ever seen.

Rocksuperstar · Nov 12, 2007

JJ is good, but to move to the next step he needs to work on his first touch - it's abysmal 99% of the time, which leads me to think that the 1% of the time when he doesn't make a mess of it and knock it 15 yards ahead of him, is total fluke.

Hopefully, as with Lennon working on his shooting, JJ will work on that first touch - maybe spend some time with Berba, he's a master at it as we all know.

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