greavesie
New Member
- Jan 29, 2006
- 148
- 0
WAS'NT WENDY AFTER HIM AS WELL, THINK I HAVE HEARD THIS SOMEWHEREWenger actually put in a bid at the time
WAS'NT WENDY AFTER HIM AS WELL, THINK I HAVE HEARD THIS SOMEWHEREWenger actually put in a bid at the time
Anybody that thinks that Zokora is causing us more problems than Dawson is an idiot.
Joey if only your microscopic analysis of all things Zokora was applied evenly to others I'd respect your opinion more.
And Carrick was a decent player, but was not the world beater you keep making out. Which is probably why he sometimes doesn't start or is subbed for ManU and why they are not at the top of the league despite having the best defence and atack in the prtemiership.
Joey your fucking dillusional mate. You really do believe that Zokora is to blame for everything and not the fact that dawson is a hapless donkey, Robinson a fat flapper and Chimbonda a stylish wanker.
Zokora was to blame for the goal at West Ham and the first v Aalborg ? Joey you are fucking clueless when it comes to football. Zokora may have been an unwilling accessory to a cluster fuck but he was a little way down the que no matter how biased a slant you want to put on it. Just watch the Aalborg goal again and tell me what the fuck Dawson was doing and why he took so long to react to the way play unfolded. or why Lennon and jenas and keane did fuck all as they didn't have the responsibility of leaving another player in a dangerous position that Zokora had and were nearer.
A you seriously telling us that you think Dawson is less detrimental to this team than Zokora ?
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YES.
You are an idiot.
three things there,the first is for the one bolded,Well I suppose I had better spell it out. An idiot's guide to the strengths and weaknesses of Didier Zokora,
He has as much skill as Andy Booth, the passing of Stewart Nethercott, tackles like Jimmy Greaves, shoots like Steffen Freund, heads like Jermain Defoe. He has the first touch of Gary Doherty and the tactical awareness of Ian Moores.
Put Ledley King next to Dawson and he will be a solid central defender . Put Messi or Ronaldinho or Fabregas next to Zokora and he will still be crap.
Well I suppose I had better spell it out. An idiot's guide to the strengths and weaknesses of Didier Zokora,
He has as much skill as Andy Booth, the passing of Stewart Nethercott, tackles like Jimmy Greaves, shoots like Steffen Freund, heads like Jermain Defoe. He has the first touch of Gary Doherty and the tactical awareness of Ian Moores.
Put Ledley King next to Dawson and he will be a solid central defender . Put Messi or Ronaldinho or Fabregas next to Zokora and he will still be crap.
Zokora is not my favourite player by any means, but that set of comparisons is totally ridiculous.
The latest stats are available at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ma...d=F17&targetRule=10&team=6&teamname=Tottenham
For some reason Sky have altered their presentation of OPTA stats this season and rendered them pretty useless for comparison purposes. The Telegraph's are far better.
As far as Sunday's game goes, Zokora, Keane, Bale and Lee all had a passing accuracy of 90% or better, whilst Chimbonda, the Hudd and Malbranque were 80% or better. The big let-downs were Berbatov and Kaboul, at under 60% (!).
If you think about it really hard, you have actually described Dawson perfectly.
As far as Zokora goes I refer you to SS57's stat above or the thread I started a few weeks ago which showed Zokora had (at that time) the equal best passing stats in the premier.
Everybody has the right to be a stupid ****. Some people just abuse that right don't they ?
You have to remember that 80% of his passes are sideways or backwards to players close to him..... :hello:
I think they're both sub rate.
Dawson is rubbish. Take away his brave headers and lunges he's really a very mediocre defender. Positionally all over the place, clumsy tackler, bambi on ice with the ball and the inability to pass the ball forward without clubbing it 70 fucking yards. Touch of a baby elepahnt and it bugs the hell out of me. Once all the others are fit, I'd have Dawson as 4th choice CB and hope Juande feels the same.
Zokora isn't as accountable as the defenders but he's pretty damn average. As part of 2 man CM I don't see that he offers enough. Passing, tackling, creativity wise. Just a formidable athlete. Come January, I'm praying we sign a replacement for him.
The deeper a midfield player plays the more accurate his passes will be. Passing % stats are poitnless. Fabregas is currently at 80%, but for much of the season was in the mid 70's. Yet he's one of the best passers in the Prem. William Gallas has a passing % of 96%, yet I really doesn't think he is good passer. At Chelsea Obi Mikel has a success rate of 91%, whilst Lampard and Essien are in the low 80's. Drogba is on 52% which puts Berbs passing into perspective. The reason is simple, the higher you play up the pitch the less time you have on the ball and the less options you have, as you are surrunded by opposition players. If you pick the ball up in front of your own defence, you are in the middle of the entire team and have options all around you.
But you will consider John Obi Mikel a great passer? The role he or Makelele plays at Chelsea is crucial to the overall balance in the team. And Zokora has the potential to be that good. The way I see it, his passing is good, but too often his closing down isnt good enough, so that players get past him.
Now, you might say that Mikel can play that role cause Chelsea got a three man CM. However, I argue that we do too. Very, very often Malbranque, Zokora and Jenas plays the midfield three, with Keane drifting out to the left with Bale coming up to support him.
But you will consider John Obi Mikel a great passer? The role he or Makelele plays at Chelsea is crucial to the overall balance in the team. And Zokora has the potential to be that good. The way I see it, his passing is good, but too often his closing down isnt good enough, so that players get past him.
Now, you might say that Mikel can play that role cause Chelsea got a three man CM. However, I argue that we do too. Very, very often Malbranque, Zokora and Jenas plays the midfield three, with Keane drifting out to the left with Bale coming up to support him.
There is no way on earth that he will ever be that good... Stop kidding yourself...
I've always said Zokora has potential to play in a 3 cm. But there is far more to the holding role than simple passing. The key to being successful in the position is not simple distribution, as many fans often seem to think it is. The most important part of the role is positional disicpline. You don't need a holding player to distribute the ball simply. Any midfielder can do that. The first rule of the holding role is to never get caught in front of the ball. Every other player on the pitch can, except for the holding player. Hence, pundits etc often talk about how the holding player frees the other midfielder up, as he can get forward without worrying. The only times it is acceptable for the holding player to be in front of the ball, is when it is hoofed over the top and therefore the defenders should be able to deal with it, or if a diagnol ball is played out wide. Other than in those circumstances, the holding player should always be behind the ball, between the attacing players and the defence.
The cardinal sin, is to allow the ball, to get in behind him and between the defenders, thus exposing the back 4. Hence people talk of the holding player shielding or protecting the back 4. The holding player can't chase the ball or committ to the tackle unless he's sure to win it, otherwise he gets dragged out of position and gaps appear between the midfield and defence. Zokora is always being dragged out of positon. Hence a number of fans (including myself) get very frustrated by him. I genuinley think those who defend him, simply aren't aware of his lack of discipline or positional awareness and how costly it is to us. It's easy to spot mistakes made by CBs etc, but the holding role is more techincal and therefore alot of fans don't notice big positonal errors. Zokora has a nasty habbit of chasing runners when the ball is in front of him and then when it goes behind him and he actually should be tracking, he doesn't.
Now, I agree with what you are saying. However, I argue that he can become a player that doesnt make these mistakes with the right guidance. He has the physical and technical abilities.
In addition to his tactical mistakes youre mentioning, the main focus must be to improve the way he closes down players. Because, as you point out, he cannot let the attacking players get in between him and the defenders.
Of course I know that there is more to a holding midfielder than simple passes...